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[AlexXIV]

Bad King wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus was always gonna bite you in the ass.

Believing otherwise is naive.

Shepard is trying to stop the Reapers and save the galaxy full stop. Not secure human dominance (wait...no I mean Cerberus dominance no matter how much they pretend they are not all of humanity) across the galaxy.

Not necessarily- this was something BioWare decided between ME2 and ME3. They portrayed Cerberus as ambiguous in ME2- there was nothing to hint that they would turn on you in ME3. It's likely that Cerberus were made into antagonists in order to make gameplay more fun since we would otherwise be fighting mainly husks.

Well ambigious is not very trustworthy in my book. They have done questionable things. If I was Shepard and had to work with them I would at least make sure first that they do what I say, when I say it. As in securing their loyality. As things went to the end of ME2 there was no such loyality between Shep and Cerberus, or Shep and TIM. With the exception of Seboist, who's femShep became TIM's boytoy.

But all the way through ME2, it was strongly implied that TIM wanted to take the fight to the reapers as much as Shepard- he supports curing the genophage and peace between the quarians and geth. The ambiguity was
mainly based around his methods- how much involvement did TIM have in the Teltin project? It was left up to the player to decide whether the unethical actions at Teltin was supported by TIM or whether he was against it.

TIM however seems to have backslid- instead of trying to save the genophage cure, he's trying to sabotage it, and instead of putting Cerberus resources into directly fighting the reapers, he seems to be ignoring them and hindering the allies. Cerberus's transformation into an antagonist is not very consistent with their role as an ambiguous, untrustworthy ally in ME2. It doesn't necessarily mean a retcon, but to claim "lol it was obvious all along" is false if you look at the context of ME2.

Well there is a chance that in ME2 he was just trying to lead Shep on. I can understand why Cerberus supporters don't like it, but fact is, if he is as smart as people say then he probably knows when to play nice to get what he wants.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 21 janvier 2012 - 09:06 .

[Bad King]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well there is a chance that in ME2 he was just trying to lead Shep on. I can understand why Cerberus supporters don't like it, but fact is, if he is as smart as people say then he probably knows when to play nice to get what he wants.

The problem with this idea is that his plans for curing the genophage and supporting peace between the quarians and geth are in his personal logs- they are essentially behind Shepard's back. Only we (the player) get to see them.

Modifié par Bad King, 21 janvier 2012 - 09:12 .

[Izhalezan]

I gave Cerberus a uneasy chance till the collector vessel happened...

[KotorEffect3]

Well cerberus has been fooling around with reaper tech since the end of ME 2 and deception should reveal more of what their motives are.

[ArkkAngel007]

"Stay out of my way" does not equal a declaration of war. TIM does not want Shepard interfering with his plans, and for good reason on his part.

And why should BioWare practically make two completely different versions of the same game to cater to the Cerberus sympathizers and haters?

[Eclipse_9990]

gogman25 wrote...

Bioware needs to get off there "Lololol Cerberus is Evil" High horse" 

You need to stop caring so damn much. Also its "their" not "there".  

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
criminal organization named after a Greek god of death.

Cerberus isn't the Greek God of Death. Its the pet of the Greek God of Death. 

Cerberus were evil bastards in ME1. Its foolish to assume they would suddenly do a triple 180 just because of ME2. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 21 janvier 2012 - 09:33 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I detest the "anvilicious" approach. What I've seen in the leaks holds no subtelty whatsoever.

[Labrev]

Bad King wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well there is a chance that in ME2 he was just trying to lead Shep on. I can understand why Cerberus supporters don't like it, but fact is, if he is as smart as people say then he probably knows when to play nice to get what he wants.

The problem with this idea is that his plans for curing the genophage and supporting peace between the quarians and geth are in his personal logs- they are essentially behind Shepard's back. Only we (the player) get to see them.

ROFL, you believed that crap?

If TIM wants human dominance through the galaxy, which species poses a larger threat to that than the krogan growing at an unchecked rate?

That was on the same page as TIM's "support" for you activating the geth. "It's not the decision *I* would have made.... but you're in charge." Or Grunt: "That was pretty brash and reckless of you... but you're in charge.

Obviously his post-mission report isn't going to be "Dumb decision by Shepard, Krogan are too dangerous. What an idiot."

[HiroVoid]

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus was always gonna bite you in the ass.

Believing otherwise is naive.

Shepard is trying to stop the Reapers and save the galaxy full stop. Not secure human dominance (wait...no I mean Cerberus dominance no matter how much they pretend they are not all of humanity) across the galaxy.

What about at the end of ME1 where Shepard could say that he killed the Council to secure human dominance?

[Ryzaki]

HiroVoid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus was always gonna bite you in the ass.

Believing otherwise is naive.

Shepard is trying to stop the Reapers and save the galaxy full stop. Not secure human dominance (wait...no I mean Cerberus dominance no matter how much they pretend they are not all of humanity) across the galaxy.

What about at the end of ME1 where Shepard could say that he killed the Council to secure human dominance?

Wait he can say that?

Uh...okay then.

Still destroying Reapers > Human dominance.

[What a Succulent Ass]

10 yr old Gears of War, COD gamer

GTFO.

So tired of hearing this.

[HiroVoid]

Ryzaki wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Cerberus was always gonna bite you in the ass.

Believing otherwise is naive.

Shepard is trying to stop the Reapers and save the galaxy full stop. Not secure human dominance (wait...no I mean Cerberus dominance no matter how much they pretend they are not all of humanity) across the galaxy.

What about at the end of ME1 where Shepard could say that he killed the Council to secure human dominance?

Wait he can say that?

Uh...okay then.

Still destroying Reapers > Human dominance.

Still, TIM obviously has a plan to both stop the reapers and secure human dominance.  He could tell Shepard his plan without giving details on operations.

[drgSebi]

Well more choice is better for everyone. I like the way the OP thinks. I hope TIM is still gray! and not fuc0in evil/dark side/whateva. Choice to side with Alliance or Cerberus is kinda everythin a gamer could ask for but I think it's too late for that now. Cerberus is out to mess with Shep no matter the cost, devs kinda said so.

[Phaedon]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...


Cerberus isn't the Greek God of Death. Its the pet of the Greek God of Death. 

Cerberus were evil bastards in ME1. Its foolish to assume they would suddenly do a triple 180 just because of ME2. 

Who got roflstomped by Hercules, may I add.

[Ahglock]

Habs25 wrote...

I know better than the developers of the game! I SWEAR!

Lots of time viewers, readers, players do know better than the developer writer.  They frequently have a better perspectice to see if things work or make sense.  There really is a problem when people are too close to something to see the problem.  

Anyways, Cerberus is evil they always have been and always have been portrayed as evil.  Tieing them to the reaper threat though is going to take a lot of explaining to pull off in a satisfactory way.  And I honestly doubt they will pull it off given Cerberus's independent cell structure.  Making the krogan the enemy would make a whole hell of a lot more sense or the Asari or whatever because they actually have home worlds to indoctrinate.  

[HiroVoid]

Ahglock wrote...

Habs25 wrote...

I know better than the developers of the game! I SWEAR!

Lots of time viewers, readers, players do know better than the developer writer.  They frequently have a better perspectice to see if things work or make sense.  There really is a problem when people are too close to something to see the problem.  

Anyways, Cerberus is evil they always have been and always have been portrayed as evil.  Tieing them to the reaper threat though is going to take a lot of explaining to pull off in a satisfactory way.  And I honestly doubt they will pull it off given Cerberus's independent cell structure.  Making the krogan the enemy would make a whole hell of a lot more sense or the Asari or whatever because they actually have home worlds to indoctrinate.  

Yeah....if this was a TV series, or something else, it feels more like Cerberus would be a big threat after all this rather than during it, but since this is the last entry in the trilogy, they have to take care of all the loose ends.

[Ryzaki]

HiroVoid wrote...
Still, TIM obviously has a plan to both stop the reapers and secure human dominance.  He could tell Shepard his plan without giving details on operations.

He could. It's not OOC to me though that he didn't.

[Phaedon]

Because TIMmy doesn't tend to be overly secretive, even when he really really really doesn't need to be and really really really shouldn't be, right?

[squee365]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Cerberus is up to some genuine Saturday morning cartoon villainy in ME3.

It's comedic at times.

I thought that was Harbinger's job?

[Labrev]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

All of those things can be done in spite of Cerberus, so it does not prove loyalty.

-- Collector Base: too important not to use against Reapers, even if Shep hates Cerberus.
-- Legion to Cerberus: Shepard hates geth based on his history with them, decides he'd rather have someone study it than take a chance with keeping (aside from the fact that TIM might not think you'd even consider activating it yourself to add to the squad, so thereby handing it to him just seems like the obvious side effect of merely finding it).
-- David to Cerberus: again, nothing more than Shepard deciding the project is to important to stop, not a personal endorsement of Cerberus. Again, his history would play a role as well.
-- Sensitive data: you're working for him, he asked you to get it back, you give him back what's rightfully his (and get some funding from his end for doing it). How's he to know you'd consider keeping it or uploading it to the Alliance?

Reasons TIM would still not trust Shepard:

-- Shepard never joined voluntarily.
-- Shepard's history working with aliens puts him at odds with the personalities TIM actually trusts (like Kai Leng).
-- Shepard's only goal in life is destroying the Reapers. Come ME3, that's in direct conflict with Cerberus's goals, as the devs/writers have said themselves.
-- A cunning Shepard could pretend to agree to work for him, only to opportunely stab him in the back. TIM would not take that risk even if Shepard were possibly genuine.

TIM brought Shepard back for one thing only: to lead a small team successfully to/from the O4 relay, defeat the Collectors. You proved you could do it as a Spectre - small team vs. impossible odds - but otherwise have no appeal of long-term cooperation.

Sorry, you can only work for an employer if they want you. You can't go back to the council in ME2, you can't go back to Cerberus in ME3. End of story.

And one more thing to add onto reasons not to trust Shepard.

Shepard is an Alliance soldier before working with Cerberus, and Alliance basically hate Cerberus on principle. More reason to doubt that "pro-Cerberus" actions above prove any loyalty to his cause.

[Phaedon]

darkness reborn wrote...

For f**k sake...

Cerberus are the Bad Guys in ME 3.

DEAL WITH IT!!!!

They are dealing with it. By shouting really loudly and occasionally punching the table.

It's rather amusing, actually.