678 réponses à ce sujet

[Dewart]

AlanC9 wrote...

Dewart wrote...

I'm just wondering if you could elaborate on the experimenting with periodic bonus content part. If not thats cool I guess I think it just might help a few of us understand.

NWN Premium Modules. Stand-alone adventures for NWN. AFAIK this pioneered the paid DLC concept.

I remember being able to make my own missions/adventures/maps for that game. I remember making huge battle arena with friends and then hooking up the lan and slaying monsters against imopssible odds. oh those were the days lol endless suicide missions

[CubbieBlue66]

I created a thread about the idea of a Season Pass (an idea Mr. Woo expressed an interest in ~5 pages or so ago).

You can find it here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9061196

Modifié par CubbieBlue66, 24 janvier 2012 - 07:31 .

[Iamnotahater]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Iamnotahater wrote...

The not holding back content part just isn't true.

In alot cases with DLC content was on the disk and some games in a disgusting practice (imo) have taken to advertising "cut content" ingame.

Test Drive comes to mind. Need for speed is another. As does NWN where you couldn't access your companions inventory and when you tried you were given an advertisement to download DLC.

Dragon age: Orgins was another.

Can't comment on Test Drive or Need for Speed, but I can say that Dragon Age Origins was a special case, if we're talking about Shale. Shale was originally cut because we didn't have time to finish the character and model and everything to fit it into the game. That's cut for good, kaput, no Shale at all in DAO. This is a far cry from it being "held back", It was only when the game was delayed that we decided that the content could be finished in time to put into the game again.

Because it was then intended for DLC, it did not need to be done in time to be put onto the disc, giving us even more time in which to finish the content. And even then, it was offered as free, day 1 DLC on new copies of the game. We cannot count on such happenstance for every DLC package or anything that we cut from the game. Stuff that is actually cut from the game is intended to be cut for good.

As for NWN, i don't remember anything that behaved as you described it. Companion inventory was added, if I recall correctly, in the Hordes of the Underdark expansion, as we only had the NWN Live Team, which I suppose could technically be called a DLC team. An honest to goodness "advertisement to download DLC" in NWN doesn't sound right at all, since we were still experimenting with periodic bonus content at the time. The only "advertisement to download DLC" that I recall is for DAO, where we had an NPc advertising DLC within the party camp. And if I recall, many people in the community didn't like that very much.

Well in NWN case I belive the message was something to the effect you must have Shadows of Undertide/ Hordes of of Underdark expansion installed to access henchman inventory it's been awhile since I played the game so my memory might be fuzzy but I thought at the time that was kind of dodgy.

In regards to DAO I was referring to Wardens Keep. Where you were greeted with ingame advertising from Levi and had to pay 7 to correct a design flaw.

http://nukezilla.com...ge-origins-dlc/

Need for speed advertised cars ingame at launch that you had to pay to unlock (content was on disk). Test Drive had locations that weren't available unless you paid for DLC.

[Mike_Neel]

I don't mind DLC. I do mind however when it's already on the disc and you just pay for an unlock code to get it. That's when I start having problems. I can excuse it if it's preorder stuff already stamped on the disc and nothing too high level. But when your entire first line of DLC is completed and printed on the disc that's when I officially "boycott" that games entire DLC run.

I'm looking at a particular "Epic" game.

[Reever]

Gatt9 wrote...

I didn't know about that before, wow, that's a new low in gaming.

Agreed.


Haven´t read all of BioWare´s posts, but I do have to say: if you really want to "reward" the fans who buy other things than the game, you could just give them some purely aesthetic DLCs, or weps etc if you will. But content - even though optional - is something that really happened in that universe. And you can´t play it. Because not everybody has enough money to buy dozens of extra merchandise in order to get the DLC. If that DLC would be sold by its own, it would be something else. But it´s not.

Thing is, Priestly is right, the companies only offer us the merchandise. We buy it. And most of us will continue buying, not matter unfair it will become (well, the thing with Ubisoft is something else, but still, it rarely happens).
People are too weak (yeah, that goes for me as well. Still buying the game with Origin, because I just want to end the trilogy and don´t want to use alternatives...because I also want to support BioWare. But what producers like EA dare to write in their EULA is just...there are no words for it).

My life will continue of course, even without the Figurine DLCs, but this isn´t making a good impression on me (and it doesn´t matter, you still get my money xD).

[AlanC9]

Iamnotahater wrote...
Well in NWN case I belive the message was something to the effect you must have Shadows of Undertide/ Hordes of of Underdark expansion installed to access henchman inventory it's been awhile since I played the game so my memory might be fuzzy but I thought at the time that was kind of dodgy.

Oh, OK. That's not as crazy as I thought.

You couldn't access henchman inventory at all when the game was released. Nothing would happen. In the post-SoU patch rather than have nothing at all happen, the game told you that this function was in the expansion. Should they have given away major features of the expansion for free? Or just left it doing nothing when you tried to access the inventory?

I never saw this message myself since I got SoU pretty quick, and before I got it I was using a fan mod that worked around the inventory issue.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 janvier 2012 - 07:42 .

[Dewart]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

I created a thread about the idea of a Season Pass (an idea Mr. Woo expressed an interest in ~5 pages or so ago).

You can find it here:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9061196

good move

[Iamnotahater]

The answer from me is a resounding yes. Gameplay was broken without it (henchman were useless and would die at the drop of a hat).

It should have been in the original game or patched shortly after release not held back and so it could be included in their expansion pack.

Thank god there were other community based solutions out there. Turned me right off.

Modifié par Iamnotahater, 24 janvier 2012 - 07:48 .

[AlanC9]

Iamnotahater wrote...

The answer from me is a resounding yes. Gameplay was broken without it (henchman were useless and would die at the drop of a hat).

This isn't really true. NWN OC henchmen didn't die because they weren't equipped; their starting equipment leveled up with them. The advantage you gained by being able to swap it out for found stuff is not very great. Most of the advantage is in being able to use stuff the PC can't .

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 janvier 2012 - 07:52 .

[Mikey_205]

Actually consumers have numerous options such as negative marketing to their friends, raising awareness about the pricing issues around DLC, not making repeat purchases etc... It really is not a binary choice. It's kind of ridiculous that about 1/3 of the armour in Mass Effect 2 was solely available as promotional pieces or DLC (excluding the free Cerberus Assault Armor) especially given the complaints about the reduction in customisability.

[Iamnotahater]

Well it was for me. I'd lose my henchman (I'd constantly have to revive them - every once and awhile I would miss that the henchman died and leave an area then have to go back and retrace my steps in order to find them).

Their equipment sucked even with the automatic leveling (which I was not aware of). Not trying get offtopic too much.

[Poison_Berrie]

BlueDemonX wrote...

Haven´t read all of BioWare´s posts, but I do have to say: if you really want to "reward" the fans who buy other things than the game, you could just give them some purely aesthetic DLCs, or weps etc if you will. But content - even though optional - is something that really happened in that universe.

By content do you mean Multi-player (it's actually Coöp) weapons, upgrades and skins? Because that's what this is most likely going to be.

[AlanC9]

Iamnotahater wrote...

Well it was for me. I'd lose my henchman (I'd constantly have to revive them - every once and awhile I would miss that the henchman died and leave an area then have to go back and retrace my steps in order to find them).

Their equipment sucked even with the automatic leveling (which I was not aware of). Not trying get offtopic too much.

The topic's dopey enough that we might as well derail it.

If you weren't aware enough to know that the henchman equipment leveled up, how do you know how good it was?

[Bobrzy]

I don't have to buy any DLC's. It's my choice as a customer, and since my income is below average i never have the money to buy DLC's - ME2 is a great example, where the only DLC's i had were the free ones. I prefered "older" times, when creators compiled all the additional maps/weapons/characters that were made separately into expansion packs, and released them as a separate product that costed approximately half the cost of the game.

But that doesn't mean what they do today is wrong. Producers may choose to sell some of the content in a form of DLC, and they also can dictate any price they want, because they are owners. There is nothing wrong or immoral with adding bonus DLC content to, for example, figurines or (Normandy) models. Sure, they may be expensive, but you have a right as a customer to not buy it. But if you are really interested in that kind of stuff - well, then you must be prepared, that you will have to PAY. If you think that is too much, then don't buy it, it's that simple. Your arguments about that kind of stuff being "unfair" and "disrespectfull" are invalid.

Developers promised, that main product will be a complete, immersive action-RPG in S-F universe. You saw what the game looks like now, so you know what you will be paying for. You know the price for that game, you know when it gets released. It's your choice to pay for it and play, or saying "nah, i'm not interested in that for that kind of price" and saving your hard earned money. The same applies to DLC - you know, what the additional content is, you know the price for it. It's up to you to decide, if you want to pay for it as much.

And remember, the prices for that kind of collectors stuff is high for a reason. It's not about greed, hate towards fans, demonic rituals or whatever. The reason is - people are WILLING to pay as much. Just because i, for example, can't afford DLC/figurine/other stuff, doesn't mean there are nobody else who CAN afford and WILL buy it.

There, now you can stone me for supporting these oppresors.

[WelshWarden]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Can't comment on Test Drive or Need for Speed, but I can say that Dragon Age Origins was a special case, if we're talking about Shale. Shale was originally cut because we didn't have time to finish the character and model and everything to fit it into the game. That's cut for good, kaput, no Shale at all in DAO. This is a far cry from it being "held back", It was only when the game was delayed that we decided that the content could be finished in time to put into the game again.

Because it was then intended for DLC, it did not need to be done in time to be put onto the disc, giving us even more time in which to finish the content. And even then, it was offered as free, day 1 DLC on new copies of the game. We cannot count on such happenstance for every DLC package or anything that we cut from the game. Stuff that is actually cut from the game is intended to be cut for good.

Games with simultaneous International release typically go Gold 3-4 weeks before release day on average correct?
Microsoft certification of patches and DLC is typically 2-3 weeks aswell as we saw with the patches etc for that game itself with Bioware employees describing the patch process many times when we complained about how long DLC would take to come out and when you had to send DLC to Microsoft for certification.

To know that the Shale DLC would both work with your release build and that it would be available on day 1 you would have had at most a week of extra time and even then that would be cutting it extremely close and all that time would have been spent testing and bugbashing anything that arose especially since any changes made to the code after it was sent would have meant it would go through the certification process again.

The more likely scenario, with allocation of resources, use of time and cost, is that the Shale DLC was finished and tested before the game went gold and was sent along to Microsoft/Sony for certification at the same time the base game itself was but wasn't included on the disk itself for marketing purposes on the orders of the higher ups. Things sound much better when you find that you're getting something for free sort of thing.

Now regarding this bit of DLC.... Do they work witht he Portal of Power?

[nevar00]

DLC is general is really starting to annoy me, unless it's supposed to be a follow-up to a game. If you pay the full price for a game I never felt like you really should have to pay for content that was removed. This online pass garbage especially has been angering me recently.

At least it's just extra armor and stuff for multiplayer, which I doubt I'll even get around to playing much anyway. I have no intention of buying these personally.

[Dewart]

ODST 5723 wrote...

The action figure business seems like a smart, solid promo that's being blown out of proportion by a few irrational, but vocal parties who want to key in factors that really aren't material to the discussion in order to perpetuate a sense of victimization if they can't obtain every piece of content.

Meanwhile, there are still material facts not yet in evidence to support or corroborate either position. Yet that vocal group insists on perpetuting the notion that this is something more than what it is. A low-cost promo from Bioware / Big Fish to sell some figures and to provide an in-game reward for that purchase.

The only people who have any real reason to feel shafted at this stage are the ones who purchased Series 1 when they were DC Direct figures and branded for ME2 who did not get any content, however that reason really that strong since there was never any content advertised or promised for those figures.

And consdiering that the figures will likely be out over a month after the game hits and is MP focused I'd venture that there should be more curiosity about the specifics and less whining. Unfortunately, the whining is drowning out the voice of those who have legitimate questions.


When can we expect more information?


What content packs are available?
-What's in them?
-How many are there?
-Does a set of 8 figures ensure that you'll obtain all the available pieces?


How does the randomization work?
-How many items are unlocked per code?
-Does this system accont for things you already have or can there be duplication?


Are they exclusive to the figures or will they be released separately?
-If separately, are they available on 360, PC & PS3?
-If separately, are they simply free unlocks from a tree of in-game options or are they bolt-on extras?


Are they earnable in-game and simply being unlocked early?
-If so, are they unlocked globally for all of your MP characters or only for certain characters?


I'm sure there's more questions. Perhaps we can push for those answers rather than complain about assumptions and speculation. Then, if we don't like the answers, complaining seems appropriate.

Just bumping this post. Some good questions here. Some answers would be nice or at the very least an indication if these questions will be answered.

[AlanC9]

WelshWarden wrote...
Games with simultaneous International release typically go Gold 3-4 weeks before release day on average correct?
Microsoft certification of patches and DLC is typically 2-3 weeks aswell as we saw with the patches etc for that game itself with Bioware employees describing the patch process many times when we complained about how long DLC would take to come out and when you had to send DLC to Microsoft for certification.

But doesn't the main game itself go through that same certification process before going gold?

[Poison_Berrie]

WelshWarden wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Can't comment on Test Drive or Need for Speed, but I can say that Dragon Age Origins was a special case, if we're talking about Shale. Shale was originally cut because we didn't have time to finish the character and model and everything to fit it into the game. That's cut for good, kaput, no Shale at all in DAO. This is a far cry from it being "held back", It was only when the game was delayed that we decided that the content could be finished in time to put into the game again.

Because it was then intended for DLC, it did not need to be done in time to be put onto the disc, giving us even more time in which to finish the content. And even then, it was offered as free, day 1 DLC on new copies of the game. We cannot count on such happenstance for every DLC package or anything that we cut from the game. Stuff that is actually cut from the game is intended to be cut for good.

Games with simultaneous International release typically go Gold 3-4 weeks before release day on average correct?
Microsoft certification of patches and DLC is typically 2-3 weeks aswell as we saw with the patches etc for that game itself with Bioware employees describing the patch process many times when we complained about how long DLC would take to come out and when you had to send DLC to Microsoft for certification.

It seems unlikely that a piece of DLC would need near equable time to the full game. A game typically needs to be more than a month ahead of release so that it can be certified, printed and distributed. 
I think I even remember some interviews about them being able to work on DLC after the game has gone gold.

The more likely scenario, with allocation of resources, use of time and cost, is that the Shale DLC was finished and tested before the game went gold and was sent along to Microsoft/Sony for certification at the same time the base game itself was but wasn't included on the disk itself for marketing purposes on the orders of the higher ups. Things sound much better when you find that you're getting something for free sort of thing.

So you are basically calling him a liar. 
He can't win can he? If he talks about he's lying anyway.

nevar00 wrote...

DLC is general is really starting to annoy me, unless it's supposed to be a follow-up to a game. If you pay the full price for a game I never felt like you really should have to pay for content that was removed. This online pass garbage especially has been angering me recently.

Actually most DLC is probably planned ahead now a days. 
I find it funny how people keep claiming that it's stuff that would have been in the game otherwise, with the only evidence they bring being cynism and the evil of coporations.

[Iamnotahater]

AlanC9 wrote...

Iamnotahater wrote...

Well it was for me. I'd lose my henchman (I'd constantly have to revive them - every once and awhile I would miss that the henchman died and leave an area then have to go back and retrace my steps in order to find them).

Their equipment sucked even with the automatic leveling (which I was not aware of). Not trying get offtopic too much.

The topic's dopey enough that we might as well derail it.

If you weren't aware enough to know that the henchman equipment leveled up, how do you know how good it was?

Because they kept dieing...lol. I probably was aware of it at the time. But I haven't played NWN in so long.

[MutoidMan]

Stanley Woo wrote...

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

Mr. Woo, do you happen to know whether the marketing team has considered a "season pass" type of offer, similar to those seen in the Gears of War and Call of Duty series?

Given the quality of the Mass Effect franchise to this point, I'd gladly pay (essentially pre-pay) $30 or so for an all-inclusive downloadable content pack.

I actually rather like that kind of an idea. Feel free to discuss that and offer it as a suggestion in these discussion threads.

That would work perfectly for me. I'm just not into the figures, books, and whatnot so I'd gladly pay one up-front flat fee for all of the DLC. I'd probably go as high as $50 or $60 iff I got the merchandise DLC and pre-order DLC too. BioWare gets my money and I get the DLC that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I think that's a fair deal.

[WelshWarden]

AlanC9 wrote...

WelshWarden wrote...
Games with simultaneous International release typically go Gold 3-4 weeks before release day on average correct?
Microsoft certification of patches and DLC is typically 2-3 weeks aswell as we saw with the patches etc for that game itself with Bioware employees describing the patch process many times when we complained about how long DLC would take to come out and when you had to send DLC to Microsoft for certification.

But doesn't the main game itself go through that same certification process before going gold?

That's what going gold implies. You provide for certification a copy of the final code for testing and verification that it works on the consle in question.
As seen by other games such as Skyrim on PS3 they don't exactly test boxed prduct very well or thoroughly anyway so as long as you're sure that you won't get it sent back because it bricks consoles it's also sent out for printng at that time.
4 weeks before release you send final code to wherever for cert, by the end of the week it gets the rubber stamp and the game starts getting printed.

[Wulfram]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Can't comment on Test Drive or Need for Speed, but I can say that Dragon Age Origins was a special case, if we're talking about Shale. Shale was originally cut because we didn't have time to finish the character and model and everything to fit it into the game. That's cut for good, kaput, no Shale at all in DAO. This is a far cry from it being "held back", It was only when the game was delayed that we decided that the content could be finished in time to put into the game again.

Because it was then intended for DLC, it did not need to be done in time to be put onto the disc, giving us even more time in which to finish the content. And even then, it was offered as free, day 1 DLC on new copies of the game. We cannot count on such happenstance for every DLC package or anything that we cut from the game. Stuff that is actually cut from the game is intended to be cut for good.

Of course, as was entirely predictable, the "free" Shale has turned out to be simply the thin end of the wedge for full on payed for DLC characters on release.

The only "advertisement to download DLC" that I recall is for DAO, where we had an NPc advertising DLC within the party camp. And if I recall, many people in the community didn't like that very much.

At least you're admitting that was an advertisement now.

[nevar00]

Poison_Berrie wrote...


Actually most DLC is probably planned ahead now a days. 
I find it funny how people keep claiming that it's stuff that would have been in the game otherwise, with the only evidence they bring being cynism and the evil of coporations.

Actually it's been proven in the past several times.  Also it's a bit questionable when DLC has been announced so far in advanced of the games' release date (not that that is the situation here).

[Icinix]

Personally I wish the DLC industry die - and go back to one or two full fledged expansions.