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[Dewart]

MutoidMan wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

Mr. Woo, do you happen to know whether the marketing team has considered a "season pass" type of offer, similar to those seen in the Gears of War and Call of Duty series?

Given the quality of the Mass Effect franchise to this point, I'd gladly pay (essentially pre-pay) $30 or so for an all-inclusive downloadable content pack.

I actually rather like that kind of an idea. Feel free to discuss that and offer it as a suggestion in these discussion threads.

That would work perfectly for me. I'm just not into the figures, books, and whatnot so I'd gladly pay one up-front flat fee for all of the DLC. I'd probably go as high as $50 or $60 iff I got the merchandise DLC and pre-order DLC too. BioWare gets my money and I get the DLC that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I think that's a fair deal.

that topic moved to this thread
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9061196

check it out if you havn't already

[WelshWarden]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

WelshWarden wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Can't comment on Test Drive or Need for Speed, but I can say that Dragon Age Origins was a special case, if we're talking about Shale. Shale was originally cut because we didn't have time to finish the character and model and everything to fit it into the game. That's cut for good, kaput, no Shale at all in DAO. This is a far cry from it being "held back", It was only when the game was delayed that we decided that the content could be finished in time to put into the game again.

Because it was then intended for DLC, it did not need to be done in time to be put onto the disc, giving us even more time in which to finish the content. And even then, it was offered as free, day 1 DLC on new copies of the game. We cannot count on such happenstance for every DLC package or anything that we cut from the game. Stuff that is actually cut from the game is intended to be cut for good.

Games with simultaneous International release typically go Gold 3-4 weeks before release day on average correct?
Microsoft certification of patches and DLC is typically 2-3 weeks aswell as we saw with the patches etc for that game itself with Bioware employees describing the patch process many times when we complained about how long DLC would take to come out and when you had to send DLC to Microsoft for certification.

It seems unlikely that a piece of DLC would need near equable time to the full game. A game typically needs to be more than a month ahead of release so that it can be certified, printed and distributed. 
I think I even remember some interviews about them being able to work on DLC after the game has gone gold.

The more likely scenario, with allocation of resources, use of time and cost, is that the Shale DLC was finished and tested before the game went gold and was sent along to Microsoft/Sony for certification at the same time the base game itself was but wasn't included on the disk itself for marketing purposes on the orders of the higher ups. Things sound much better when you find that you're getting something for free sort of thing.

So you are basically calling him a liar. 
He can't win can he? If he talks about he's lying anyway.

No I wasn't calling him a liar because he never said that it wasn't finished in time to be put on the disk. Besides another reason could quite easily be that it wasn't included on the disk due to size limitations and the added delay of changing to either a double disk release (a lot more money) or a dual layer instead of single which was probably locked down about 6 months before release(he original DA:O basically took up the whole of the disk it was shipped on). 

As for the length of time it takes for patches/DLC to be certified Priestly has spoken about it many times on the DAO and DA2 boards with regards to patches and DLC for those games as the patches especially were 2-3 weeks behind the PC ones which didn't require console manufacturer oks.

Modifié par WelshWarden, 24 janvier 2012 - 09:49 .

[Poison_Berrie]

nevar00 wrote...

Actually it's been proven in the past several times.  Also it's a bit questionable when DLC has been announced so far in advanced of the games' release date (not that that is the situation here).

Which ones, then? 

I don't think I ever bought or encountered any DLC that was finished as part of the game and then subsequently cut from the game to be repacked as DLC to be sold.

WelshWarden wrote...

No I wasn't calling him a liar because he never said that it wasn't finished in time to be put on the disk. 

As for the length of time it takes for patches/DLC to be certified Priestly has spoken about it many times on the DAO and DA2 boards with regards to patches and DLC for those games as the patches especially were 2-3 weeks behind the PC ones which didn't require console manufacturer oks.

First of apolagies then.

But where does the 3-4 weeks for the full game come from?

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:03 .

[Poison_Berrie]

Ignore that I ...

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:04 .

[AlanC9]

WelshWarden wrote...
That's what going gold implies. You provide for certification a copy of the final code for testing and verification that it works on the consle in question. 
As seen by other games such as Skyrim on PS3 they don't exactly test boxed prduct very well or thoroughly anyway so as long as you're sure that you won't get it sent back because it bricks consoles it's also sent out for printng at that time.
4 weeks before release you send final code to wherever for cert, by the end of the week it gets the rubber stamp and the game starts getting printed.

You're seriously saying that the testing process for DLC is longer than the testing process for the release candidate? I just want to make sure I'm following this.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:12 .

[WelshWarden]

[quote]Poison_Berrie wrote...

[quote]nevar00 wrote...

Actually it's been proven in the past several times.  Also it's a bit questionable when DLC has been announced so far in advanced of the games' release date (not that that is the situation here).
[/quote]
Which ones, then? 

I don't think I ever bought or encountered any DLC that was finished as part of the game and then subsequently cut from the game to be repacked as DLC to be sold.
[/quote]
I suppose one could make the argument that Ridge Racer Vita or DLCracer as it's otherwise known as the most recent example.

[quote]WelshWarden wrote...

No I wasn't calling him a liar because he never said that it wasn't finished in time to be put on the disk. 

As for the length of time it takes for patches/DLC to be certified Priestly has spoken about it many times on the DAO and DA2 boards with regards to patches and DLC for those games as the patches especially were 2-3 weeks behind the PC ones which didn't require console manufacturer oks.
[/quote]
First of apolagies then.

But where does the 3-4 weeks for the full game come from?
[/quote]

The 3-4 weeks is time for certification, manufacturing and distribution to retail in time for launch. It may be a week or two longer but then we'd be hearing from Priestly/Woo that ME3 has gone off for certification and "gone gold" in the next two or three days.

[quote]
[quote]WelshWarden wrote...
That's what going gold implies. You provide for certification a copy of the final code for testing and verification that it works on the consle in question. 
As seen by other games such as Skyrim on PS3 they don't exactly test boxed prduct very well or thoroughly anyway so as long as you're sure that you won't get it sent back because it bricks consoles it's also sent out for printng at that time.
4 weeks before release you send final code to wherever for cert, by the end of the week it gets the rubber stamp and the game starts getting printed.

[/quote]

You're seriously saying that the testing process for DLC is longer than the testing process for the release candidate? I just want to make sure I'm following this. 
[/quote]

There was a lecture on the applications and certification process at Microsoft at Gamefest a few years ago that discussed this. One of the points brought up was that due to each and every game allowing title updates(patches), DLC etc new games were prioritised for testing and certification over those things for titles not in the absolute best sellers category (limited resources and a vast amount of things that require testing mean this kinda has to be the case) so the process for a patch could take anywhere from a few days if you're lucky to weeks longer than initial certification of your game.
It's the reason why I never complained about how long patches took to come out on the console games because it'a a very excrement filled process they have to go through.

Modifié par WelshWarden, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:27 .

[KingSnake661]

Eh, when the figures don't sell like hotcakes, and the greed is still strong with them, they'll offer them in a bundle DLC, ****** on everyone who bought the stuff at "full" price and we'll see more arguing here on the intewebs, and about choice and optional and "you got first dibs AND an action figure..." ect ect ect. And it'll all be BS like it is now, but at least i'll get the stuff i want and not have to deal with doll and models i don't want, and get a discount to boot. ;-)

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

Anyone know if there will be free day-1 DLC (was firewalker, arc projector etc day-1?) for ME3 like ME2 had?

[alliance4g63]

scyphozoa wrote...

I think Ivandra's point is that she considers the in-game content the primary product and the action figures are secondary. I'm just guessing because that is how I feel. I could care less about any non-game content, keep all that crap, but don't make me buy it just to unlock in-game content.

Game content is not a bargaining chip or leverage to get the customer to buy more. Give us the full body of work and sell your non-game crap separately.

Yea this **** is getting way out of hand and ofcourse the giant pushing the revenue boulder is EA. 

This is my argument. A collecters edition used to be expensive as **** for a reason. Because it would include all the game content at a discount for buying it all at once. AGAIN.. ALL THE GAME CONTENT. Now we get art books, comics and a freaking patch..REALLY? I would have rather them price it at 150 and include everything with some figurines to choose from.

The Mortal Kombat CE included a damn arcade stick! That is a collector's edition.. I hate EA with a passion.

[JG The Gamer]

SKiLLYWiLLY2 wrote...

Anyone know if there will be free day-1 DLC (was firewalker, arc projector etc day-1?) for ME3 like ME2 had?

The Arc Projector and Project Firewalker came in the weeks and months that followed the launch. They were not Day 1 DLC. No charge for those on the Cerberus Network.

[Gatt9]

WelshWarden wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

WelshWarden wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Can't comment on Test Drive or Need for Speed, but I can say that Dragon Age Origins was a special case, if we're talking about Shale. Shale was originally cut because we didn't have time to finish the character and model and everything to fit it into the game. That's cut for good, kaput, no Shale at all in DAO. This is a far cry from it being "held back", It was only when the game was delayed that we decided that the content could be finished in time to put into the game again.

Because it was then intended for DLC, it did not need to be done in time to be put onto the disc, giving us even more time in which to finish the content. And even then, it was offered as free, day 1 DLC on new copies of the game. We cannot count on such happenstance for every DLC package or anything that we cut from the game. Stuff that is actually cut from the game is intended to be cut for good.

Games with simultaneous International release typically go Gold 3-4 weeks before release day on average correct?
Microsoft certification of patches and DLC is typically 2-3 weeks aswell as we saw with the patches etc for that game itself with Bioware employees describing the patch process many times when we complained about how long DLC would take to come out and when you had to send DLC to Microsoft for certification.

It seems unlikely that a piece of DLC would need near equable time to the full game. A game typically needs to be more than a month ahead of release so that it can be certified, printed and distributed. 
I think I even remember some interviews about them being able to work on DLC after the game has gone gold.

The more likely scenario, with allocation of resources, use of time and cost, is that the Shale DLC was finished and tested before the game went gold and was sent along to Microsoft/Sony for certification at the same time the base game itself was but wasn't included on the disk itself for marketing purposes on the orders of the higher ups. Things sound much better when you find that you're getting something for free sort of thing.

So you are basically calling him a liar. 
He can't win can he? If he talks about he's lying anyway.

No I wasn't calling him a liar because he never said that it wasn't finished in time to be put on the disk. Besides another reason could quite easily be that it wasn't included on the disk due to size limitations and the added delay of changing to either a double disk release (a lot more money) or a dual layer instead of single which was probably locked down about 6 months before release(he original DA:O basically took up the whole of the disk it was shipped on). 

As for the length of time it takes for patches/DLC to be certified Priestly has spoken about it many times on the DAO and DA2 boards with regards to patches and DLC for those games as the patches especially were 2-3 weeks behind the PC ones which didn't require console manufacturer oks.

He's being less than honest.  He neglected to mention that DAO was delayed from Feb 2009 to Nov 2009,  and it was delayed to implement the Console ports at EA's behest.  Shale was done,  tested,  and integrated.  Shale was intentionally held out,  even though it could've gone into the release.  Likely in order to get used game buyers to pay them money,  hence why it was free to new game copies.

The only other option is that it took them 9 months to finish Shale.  I'm having a hard time imagining that it takes them 9 months to implement one party member,  as anyone having that much trouble with a party member would likely need 20 years or so to get a graphics engine together.

Which ones, then?

I don't think I ever bought or encountered any DLC that was finished as part of the game and then subsequently cut from the game to be repacked as DLC to be sold.

Dead Space 2.  A fair chunk of finished content in the released game,  on the disc,  behind locked doors that would only open if you had bought the pre-launch DLC "Game". 

Further,  if you were a PC gamer,  you could never get the content,  the DLC was never available on the PC.  The content present on the disc you had bought is completely locked away from you as punishment for not buying a DLC you could not buy.

So if anyone's wondering why I'm raging at Bioware about DLC (And Multiplayer),  there it is.  I saw how EA does buisness last year,  and I'm 100% confident that ME3 will be more of the same.

Someone already mention DAO's ingame advertising for DLC,  which means it was done before they went RTM,  you don't advertise unless you know it'll be available. 

EA's not trying to sell you good games,  they're trying to find out how much you'll pay to get the whole game,  and holding the game hostage to do it.

[Terror_K]

And now there's also this.

Not only do you now have to get the Art Book if you want all the DLC, but you have to get it from a specific place to get it. I'm already getting the book from a local retailer, and have had it on pre-order for months now, but if I want the DLC I have to get it from overseas from a specific place.

This is seriously getting beyond a joke, BioWare.<_<

[nevar00]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Actually it's been proven in the past several times.  Also it's a bit questionable when DLC has been announced so far in advanced of the games' release date (not that that is the situation here).

Which ones, then? 

I don't think I ever bought or encountered any DLC that was finished as part of the game and then subsequently cut from the game to be repacked as DLC to be sold.

Bioshock 2 and Marvel vs Capcom 3 are two games I've played that have had this issue.

[ForteSJGR]

So knowing that weapons carry over through from imports (ME2 into ME3): If I already have the Collector's Rifle from ME2's collector edition will it carry over into ME3 automatically? Or is this a separate model completely?

[Lord Jaric]

For crying out loud, so far all I've heard of these dlcs are just little things like weapons, if it was missions and characters I would understand, but weapons, you really are not missing out on anything if you don't buy the figures and now the art book. You do not NEED to get everything thing for the game, it's your problem thinking you need to have everything, not bioware's.

[Stanley Woo]

[my own snark removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 25 janvier 2012 - 01:48 .

[MadLaughter]

Stop being goddamn snarky. You are a professional, and the 'well he started it!" excuse shouldn't fly here. I agree with your points but don't be a jackass, even to people who appear to deserve it.

[Stanley Woo]

Terror_K wrote...

And now there's also this.

Not only do you now have to get the Art Book if you want all the DLC, but you have to get it from a specific place to get it. I'm already getting the book from a local retailer, and have had it on pre-order for months now, but if I want the DLC I have to get it from overseas from a specific place.

This is seriously getting beyond a joke, BioWare.<_<

That's pretty cool. I've given up on being able to get all the DLC for the games I like, but for those interested in such things, I don't think it's a terrible idea.

And ordering products from overseas to get something you really want is nothing new. Special edition DVDs or CDs that have different content in different countries, tour shirts, cars, and many other products that are sold only in certain regions can be difficult and expensive to purchase if you are not in that area.

I'm going to say it again, folks (sorry): if you feel that DLC content is worth the time, effort and money to get, then get it. If you don't, then don't. All of this DLC is geared towards those people interested in Mass Effect-related merchandise like toys and art books; and, to a lesser degree, those interested in being completionist with DLC. None of it should be crucial to the playing or completion of Mass Effect 3 or Shepard's story; it is all extra. Bonus. Supplementary. Superfluous.

Whether you agree or disagree with DLC as a whole is fine. We all learn to sacrifice and do without some of the things we might want. But if you're going to bash these things just because you want the DLC and don't want to have to buy the associated products to get them, then you have two viable options: a) hope that such DLC will be available in a different format later on, or try to get them from someone who wants the product but not the DLC.

[Stanley Woo]

MadLaughter wrote...

Stop being goddamn snarky. You are a professional, and the 'well he started it!" excuse shouldn't fly here. I agree with your points but don't be a jackass, even to people who appear to deserve it.

I thought that was more sarcasm than snark, but very well, if you insist...

Post removed.

[ODST 5723]

Stanley, is there any time frame you can share regarding when we might be able to expect a full listing of the various DLC cross-promotions and products for ME3? And is it possible to get more detailed descriptions/explanations about this randomization process, what's available and whatnot?

Thanks in advance.

[Jestina]

DLC schemes,...what EA is good at. What will they think of next to get money from us?

And I thought CA was getting bad with all the Shogun2 DLC's. ME3 is looking worse. Are we even getting a game or a money sink?

[MadLaughter]

All I want is for the community managers to be as excellent to us as you want us to be to each other. I don't demand it, because we all know how little you guys like demands. I recognize that some people are easier to be sarcastic or snarky to due to the way they act, but if anyone should be able to rise above that, it's you guys.

95% of the time I agree with what you are saying, Stanley Woo, but only around 50% of the time do I agree with the tone of it. I can get riled up too, as evidenced by the 'goddamn' and 'jackass' in my last post. But I'll try to be better about it, and hopefully you will too.

[RiouHotaru]

All the "DLC" being offered is for MULTI-PLAYER

...which is CO-OP. So it actually doesn't matter if you have the DLC or not.

[Toonmanpwnsu]

I saw ME 3 toilet paper at Walmart that is packaged with DLC, but you can't get to the code until you use the roll. Eat lots of fiber and you'll get to that DLC in no time.

[Stanley Woo]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Stanley, is there any time frame you can share regarding when we might be able to expect a full listing of the various DLC cross-promotions and products for ME3? And is it possible to get more detailed descriptions/explanations about this randomization process, what's available and whatnot?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know about a full listing, but I will guess that more information about the various DLC will come out as we get closer to release. Sorry, i am neither in Marketing nor on the Mass Effect 3 project.