678 réponses à ce sujet

[habitat 67]

Toonmanpwnsu wrote...

I saw ME 3 toilet paper at Walmart that is packaged with DLC, but you can't get to the code until you use the roll. Eat lots of fiber and you'll get to that DLC in no time.

That DLC just puts toilet paper in the Normandy's bathroom. Grunt will be happy.

[MingWolf]

Stanley Woo wrote...
I'm going to say it again, folks (sorry): if you feel that DLC content is worth the time, effort and money to get, then get it. If you don't, then don't. All of this DLC is geared towards those people interested in Mass Effect-related merchandise like toys and art books; and, to a lesser degree, those interested in being completionist with DLC. None of it should be crucial to the playing or completion of Mass Effect 3 or Shepard's story; it is all extra. Bonus. Supplementary. Superfluous.

I have to agree with this statement, at least to an extent.  DLC is really just optional equipment.  In a way, it's a great way to promote merchandise equipment.

Of course, I think the problem may be because of the way this is handled, which really makes this look like a scheme to capitalize on everything EA/Bioware can get their hands on--at least, when you consider the fact that your traditional method of DLC delivery was a lot simpler, and was not bounded to any other products in order to markup a price. To be fair, DLC may not be wrong, but it doesn't look good, because it makes you (at least speaking of Bioware/EA, or any other game developer out there) look more like greedy merchants than game designers who care more about making money than developing games.  (Not saying that you are, but sometimes, it looks that way). 

I'd hate to bring another developer/publisher into this, but I find contrasting this to the practices of say, CD Projekt Red is worthy to examine.  They don't microtransaction their customers, they give large updates and content for free, and I believe thus far that all their DLC is free as well (though I may be wrong about this).  I only know them for their Witcher series, but in a way, their rep seems miles ahead of the competition right now, even as small as they are. 

It's like airline travel sometimes.  Traditionally, people had perks of flying as opposed to taking a bus.  A headset, some food, some warm blankets.  Nowadays, you have to pay for everything, and the bag of peanuts they do give you for free contains so few peanuts that you start to wonder: what gives?  Optional stuff, but when you start putting a price tag to petty things, people do start to wonder how much you care about them, even if it's all for good intent. 

[ODST 5723]

Stanley Woo wrote...

ODST 5723 wrote...

Stanley, is there any time frame you can share regarding when we might be able to expect a full listing of the various DLC cross-promotions and products for ME3? And is it possible to get more detailed descriptions/explanations about this randomization process, what's available and whatnot?

Thanks in advance.

I don't know about a full listing, but I will guess that more information about the various DLC will come out as we get closer to release. Sorry, i am neither in Marketing nor on the Mass Effect 3 project.

Can you refuse to play co-op w/ Priestly until he comes up w/ a full listing?

[Terror_K]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

And now there's also this.

Not only do you now have to get the Art Book if you want all the DLC, but you have to get it from a specific place to get it. I'm already getting the book from a local retailer, and have had it on pre-order for months now, but if I want the DLC I have to get it from overseas from a specific place.

This is seriously getting beyond a joke, BioWare.<_<

That's pretty cool. I've given up on being able to get all the DLC for the games I like, but for those interested in such things, I don't think it's a terrible idea.

And ordering products from overseas to get something you really want is nothing new. Special edition DVDs or CDs that have different content in different countries, tour shirts, cars, and many other products that are sold only in certain regions can be difficult and expensive to purchase if you are not in that area.

I'm going to say it again, folks (sorry): if you feel that DLC content is worth the time, effort and money to get, then get it. If you don't, then don't. All of this DLC is geared towards those people interested in Mass Effect-related merchandise like toys and art books; and, to a lesser degree, those interested in being completionist with DLC. None of it should be crucial to the playing or completion of Mass Effect 3 or Shepard's story; it is all extra. Bonus. Supplementary. Superfluous.

Whether you agree or disagree with DLC as a whole is fine. We all learn to sacrifice and do without some of the things we might want. But if you're going to bash these things just because you want the DLC and don't want to have to buy the associated products to get them, then you have two viable options: a) hope that such DLC will be available in a different format later on, or try to get them from someone who wants the product but not the DLC.

For me it's the way you're going about it. Getting DLC for buying an ME related product is fine, IMO, but limiting it to a specific location for pre-order is not. It should come with every Art of Mass Effect Book, no matter where you get it from. Same with the action figures. I'm okay with you bundling DLC with them. But it's a bit of a slight to people who bought them already  to not be able to get them because when you released the figures the first time you didn't have them with them. I own Grunt, Thane and Tali already... why should somebody who buys them well after me get extra items I don't all of a sudden? Especially considering how many times the original pre-order customers were dicked around and had their figures delayed.

I've read claims that you're trying to get the DLC to as many customers as possible, but it seems to me that the sheer amount of it and the amount of hoops that fans need to jump through to obtain it is ridiculous and counter-intuitive to this statement. It's damn near impossible for all but Americans with a lot of spare cash to obtain them.

[mjb203]

Terror_K wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

And now there's also this.

Not only do you now have to get the Art Book if you want all the DLC, but you have to get it from a specific place to get it. I'm already getting the book from a local retailer, and have had it on pre-order for months now, but if I want the DLC I have to get it from overseas from a specific place.

This is seriously getting beyond a joke, BioWare.<_<

That's pretty cool. I've given up on being able to get all the DLC for the games I like, but for those interested in such things, I don't think it's a terrible idea.

And ordering products from overseas to get something you really want is nothing new. Special edition DVDs or CDs that have different content in different countries, tour shirts, cars, and many other products that are sold only in certain regions can be difficult and expensive to purchase if you are not in that area.

I'm going to say it again, folks (sorry): if you feel that DLC content is worth the time, effort and money to get, then get it. If you don't, then don't. All of this DLC is geared towards those people interested in Mass Effect-related merchandise like toys and art books; and, to a lesser degree, those interested in being completionist with DLC. None of it should be crucial to the playing or completion of Mass Effect 3 or Shepard's story; it is all extra. Bonus. Supplementary. Superfluous.

Whether you agree or disagree with DLC as a whole is fine. We all learn to sacrifice and do without some of the things we might want. But if you're going to bash these things just because you want the DLC and don't want to have to buy the associated products to get them, then you have two viable options: a) hope that such DLC will be available in a different format later on, or try to get them from someone who wants the product but not the DLC.

For me it's the way you're going about it. Getting DLC for buying an ME related product is fine, IMO, but limiting it to a specific location for pre-order is not. It should come with every Art of Mass Effect Book, no matter where you get it from. Same with the action figures. I'm okay with you bundling DLC with them. But it's a bit of a slight to people who bought them already  to not be able to get them because when you released the figures the first time you didn't have them with them. I own Grunt, Thane and Tali already... why should somebody who buys them well after me get extra items I don't all of a sudden? Especially considering how many times the original pre-order customers were dicked around and had their figures delayed.

I've read claims that you're trying to get the DLC to as many customers as possible, but it seems to me that the sheer amount of it and the amount of hoops that fans need to jump through to obtain it is ridiculous and counter-intuitive to this statement. It's damn near impossible for all but Americans with a lot of spare cash to obtain them.

I've got to agree with Terror_K on this.  While I pre-ordered the Art of Mass Effect book because I enjoy concept art, if I'd have known that ordering it from Barnes and Noble would have got me an extra piece of DLC, I would have ordered it there instead of the Bioware store.  To state it plainly, this type of marketing is fast turning me away from Bioware products.  If you guys plan to attach DLC to specific items, fine, but do it before an item is up for preorder and let people know about it so they can make the decision on where to get it from as opposed to hoping the ordered it from the right place.

[AlanC9]

Yep. To paraphrase Dr. Strangelove, the purpose of the retailer DLC is lost if you don't tell people about the DLC.

[Gatt9]

MadLaughter wrote...

All I want is for the community managers to be as excellent to us as you want us to be to each other. I don't demand it, because we all know how little you guys like demands. I recognize that some people are easier to be sarcastic or snarky to due to the way they act, but if anyone should be able to rise above that, it's you guys.

95% of the time I agree with what you are saying, Stanley Woo, but only around 50% of the time do I agree with the tone of it. I can get riled up too, as evidenced by the 'goddamn' and 'jackass' in my last post. But I'll try to be better about it, and hopefully you will too.

Actually,  if you look through the thread,  you'll find I didn't start sounding off until Bioware started insulting people for complaining about their unparalleled onslaught of DLC.

It's important to read through things in context,  go back through the thread and look at what Bioware posted.

Because if you go back far enough,  you'll find Bioware told us it's "Our problem" if we think their unparalleled onslaught of DLC was overboard,  and Woo told me I'm cheap if I think it's ridiculous to include game content with action figures.

I have to wonder if they told Kotaku the same thing?

[CannonO]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

And now there's also this.

Not only do you now have to get the Art Book if you want all the DLC, but you have to get it from a specific place to get it. I'm already getting the book from a local retailer, and have had it on pre-order for months now, but if I want the DLC I have to get it from overseas from a specific place.

This is seriously getting beyond a joke, BioWare.<_<

That's pretty cool. I've given up on being able to get all the DLC for the games I like, but for those interested in such things, I don't think it's a terrible idea.

And ordering products from overseas to get something you really want is nothing new. Special edition DVDs or CDs that have different content in different countries, tour shirts, cars, and many other products that are sold only in certain regions can be difficult and expensive to purchase if you are not in that area.

I'm going to say it again, folks (sorry): if you feel that DLC content is worth the time, effort and money to get, then get it. If you don't, then don't. All of this DLC is geared towards those people interested in Mass Effect-related merchandise like toys and art books; and, to a lesser degree, those interested in being completionist with DLC. None of it should be crucial to the playing or completion of Mass Effect 3 or Shepard's story; it is all extra. Bonus. Supplementary. Superfluous.

Whether you agree or disagree with DLC as a whole is fine. We all learn to sacrifice and do without some of the things we might want. But if you're going to bash these things just because you want the DLC and don't want to have to buy the associated products to get them, then you have two viable options: a) hope that such DLC will be available in a different format later on, or try to get them from someone who wants the product but not the DLC.

Part of the reason people are saying the ME3 exclusive content situation is getting ridiculous is because we are customers of your games and DLC, but the DLC and this game seems to be setting the record for how high the cost obtaining DLC can reach. We got the chance to support DLC purchases before, and it is shocking to see how many different pieces of content are exclusively tied to merchandise instead of being available to us in the fashion we most support and have supported on previous releases. We would like the chance to judge and support the DLC, not judge how many paperweights we can buy before breaking down and giving up.

DLC is worth plenty to us, but this time it has been shoved at the top of a mountain exclusively  of ME3 non-playable merchandise. We were easily able to support DLC when it was on a more level field by being available for selection and purchase based on its own characteristics. Now it has to be based on how much can we shell out for things we don't want so that we can play the game to a further degree as we have and still do want to with all DLC.

And option 'A' is leaving us in this debate because we have been respectfully told by other developers in these exclusive arrangements whether or not we can purchase the content later, something BioWare is avoiding, perhaps hoping they can wait for people to be distraught and cave in about the decision. Option 'B' is exactly why they shouldn't be exclusively paired because some who want the book would also go for DLC and some wouldn't. If the DLC were separate, book owners wouldn't get stuck with something they might not be interested in and all DLC customers could remain customers.

Modifié par CannonLars, 25 janvier 2012 - 04:53 .

[Homey C-Dawg]

Wow DLC is getting added to just about everything. Lots of backroom wheeling and dealing going on with this game.

DLC must be the new Pokemon. Gotta collect em' all (but can't).

[mjb203]

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep. To paraphrase Dr. Strangelove, the purpose of the retailer DLC is lost if you don't tell people about the DLC.

I like this human, he understands! 

But on a more serious note, this seems like a shady business practice given the bad economic climate in many countries and the fact that there seems like there is going to be at least as many exclusive weapon and armor DLCs out as there probably is in the base game.  It's this kind of behavior that causes many people to think that things may be getting cut from the base game to put out on DLC (whether true or not, personally I don't buy into that but this gives those theories a strong foothold).  If you guys are trying to build good will with your customer base, this is a poor way of doing it.

Mr. Woo or Mr. Priestly, if one of you could please point your marketing department to this thread (or at least take some of the civil criticism to them) so they may see these concerns and how much negativity towards Bioware this in generating it will hopefully lead to a change of direction.  What good is it trying to sell more merchandise if you all lose a lot of your player base in the process?

Modifié par mjb203, 25 janvier 2012 - 05:17 .

[Ziggy]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I'm going to say it again, folks (sorry): if you feel that DLC content is worth the time, effort and money to get, then get it. If you don't, then don't. All of this DLC is geared towards those people interested in Mass Effect-related merchandise like toys and art books; and, to a lesser degree, those interested in being completionist with DLC. None of it should be crucial to the playing or completion of Mass Effect 3 or Shepard's story; it is all extra. Bonus. Supplementary. Superfluous.

Whether you agree or disagree with DLC as a whole is fine. We all learn to sacrifice and do without some of the things we might want. But if you're going to bash these things just because you want the DLC and don't want to have to buy the associated products to get them, then you have two viable options: a) hope that such DLC will be available in a different format later on, or try to get them from someone who wants the product but not the DLC.

Surely, many more people are interested in DLC than a toy.

You are therefore simply trying to make extra money by making those people who want the dlc buy a toy as well.

Yes you are perfectly within your rights to do this, however, it also earns you some dark side points.

[hebejebe999]

I think there's two problems here, one is the dlc itself, I enjoy mass effect, I'd like to be able to get anything I can  that would add to, or improve my game experience. it's worrying to see when before I'd just pre-order a game, and get bonuses, now I can do that in multiple places, can buy additional products and a wide range of things to get hold of all this dlc, it is my choice to want all the trimmings, even if they're not game changing, but lately the amount of hassle it's becoming to get hold of everything, puts me off and has actually made me dread this and other releases.

Since I was little I've grown up with the mentality of collecting everything in a game usually means 100%'ing the game, unlocking costumes, finding new weapons, collecting a full arsenal, are all parts of this, and of late achievements help, for rewarding people with unlocking things, collecting everything or even getting the 100%.

With extras like this, I cant help but feel as though having everything would be the complete collection of all the
stuff in the game, and if I don't have them, rather than having some extras and not others, it feels as though the others are missing from the complete set as a whole.

I know this is different from person to person, some people are fine to go without dlc, some people like having anything possible that would add to their game, there's no right or wrong with this, it is up to people if having all
the dlc makes their game feel more complete.

one other thing I think doesn't help, is the notion of "complete" or "ultimate" or "Game of the year" editions of games, where those words become associated with the game plus all the extra trimmings, surely if the game with all of that is classed as "ultimate" or "complete", then not having those it can surely be understood how some people feel their version of the game isn't "complete" or "ultimate"

the second problem is accessibility, this wouldn't be as bad if everyone was offered the same chance at acquiring the content as everyone else. a lot of the time these days multiple places offer different pre order bonuses, then some offer special editions on top of that, and not always with pre order bonuses, then it also differs with region, I'm a UK resident, I couldn't buy mass effect 2 collectors edition on box and get the Terminus pre order bonus, whereas in the US you could. the same is true of these action figures, sure I can make the effort of importing them, but the dlc is NA region only, so that'd be useless to me. the Dr pepper promotion was US only, so as I wanted it, I had no other option than to pay more than I should have to be able to get the content.

I'd like there to be complete copies of games that come out, like special editions, where you could pay, in one place, and be able to have the game and all the trimmings, not have to buy figures, magazines, art books, drinks or anything like that if you dont want to access all the extras a game has to offer.

Another thing I'd like to see, is game companies having or giving out the information of what exactly extra dlc like this entails, and if it'll be available after release on xbox/pc/ps3?

Modifié par hebejebe999, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:13 .

[Forsythia]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually,  if you look through the thread,  you'll find I didn't start sounding off until Bioware started insulting people for complaining about their unparalleled onslaught of DLC.

It's important to read through things in context,  go back through the thread and look at what Bioware posted.

Because if you go back far enough,  you'll find Bioware told us it's "Our problem" if we think their unparalleled onslaught of DLC was overboard,  and Woo told me I'm cheap if I think it's ridiculous to include game content with action figures.

I have to wonder if they told Kotaku the same thing?

Best post of this thread, probably. BioWare simple doesn't seem to care that their fans think this is a shady practice. Reminds me of a post around the time ME2 PS3 was released: people who had bought the Xbox 360/PC version didn't like that PS3 users could get the Dr. Pepper/Terminus Gear easily on their system, as they had to go through some hoops to get it. The response: "Sometimes, other people get nice things too." While there is truth in that sentence, I read it as "just shove it". To this day people on Xbox 360/PC are asking for the Dr. Pepper/Terminus Gear to be released as DLC. It can't be hard to do, as the files are on the server already. They even released Genesis on these systems, so I cannot fathom why the other items were never released.

To compare it to Activion, you know, the publisher that has taken the crown from EA as most hated publisher? They released a game called 'Transformers: War for Cybertron', which had several pre-order exclusive items too. Because fans asked them to release them as DLC and because prices of these items went up to $100 on eBay, they were made available for purchase for everyone. I know it's not entirely goodwill, but at least the fans got what they want.

[AlanC9]

Forsythia wrote...


Best post of this thread, probably. BioWare simple doesn't seem to care that a few of their fans think this is a shady practice.

Fixed.

Whether or not  we think this is shady... or just stupid... this board isn't exactly a representative sample of ME players. And even here I see a lot of "who cares?" posts.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 janvier 2012 - 07:22 .

[Zanallen]

I do find it hilarious that a lot of the people complaining about "having to pay for toys" for the MP DLC are the same people who complained about the MP itself and said they would never play it and how the MP would weaken the SP campaign. If you hate the MP and won't play it, why the hell do you care about DLC for the MP?

[100k]

The ONLY explaination I can gauge from this HUGE amount of money in DLC is this: that somewhere along the delay cycle, Bioware went over budget. EA wants them to make up the difference the best way they can, and DLC is the only real option.

Hell, I can't think of any other excuse for wanting fans to spend, what, 180+ for all of the game's extra content.

And can I just reemphasize something? 120 of launch DLC! When was the last time this happened in gaming??????

[Zanallen]

100k wrote...

The ONLY explaination I can gauge from this HUGE amount of money in DLC is this: that somewhere along the delay cycle, Bioware went over budget. EA wants them to make up the difference the best way they can, and DLC is the only real option.

Hell, I can't think of any other excuse for wanting fans to spend, what, 180+ for all of the game's extra content.

And can I just reemphasize something? 120 of launch DLC! When was the last time this happened in gaming??????

Once again, it isn't $120 for DLC. Your money is purchasing you collectable character figurines. The DLC is an added bonus for the people who buy those figurines.

[AlanC9]

100k wrote...

The ONLY explaination I can gauge from this HUGE amount of money in DLC is this: that somewhere along the delay cycle, Bioware went over budget. EA wants them to make up the difference the best way they can, and DLC is the only real option.

Hell, I can't think of any other excuse for wanting fans to spend, what, 180+ for all of the game's extra content.

It's conceivable. But I'd take even odds that this was always the plan. If you can get more money, why shouldn't you?

[Gibb_Shepard]

AlanC9 wrote...

100k wrote...

The ONLY explaination I can gauge from this HUGE amount of money in DLC is this: that somewhere along the delay cycle, Bioware went over budget. EA wants them to make up the difference the best way they can, and DLC is the only real option.

Hell, I can't think of any other excuse for wanting fans to spend, what, 180+ for all of the game's extra content.

It's conceivable. But I'd take even odds that this was always the plan. If you can get more money, why shouldn't you?

BW's philosophy right there.

And they get away with it because the majority eat this **** up.

LONG LIVE CDPR!

[AlanC9]

I wouldn't say that they get away with it because the majority eat this **** up. I'd say it's because the majority don't give a ****.

[ODST 5723]

100k wrote...

The ONLY explaination I can gauge from this HUGE amount of money in DLC is this: that somewhere along the delay cycle, Bioware went over budget. EA wants them to make up the difference the best way they can, and DLC is the only real option.

Hell, I can't think of any other excuse for wanting fans to spend, what, 180+ for all of the game's extra content.

And can I just reemphasize something? 120 of launch DLC! When was the last time this happened in gaming??????

Do you understand the fundamentals of a promotional pack-in?

It's a minimally valued item tagged on to a more expensive item as a bonus for purchasing that item.  These aren't money DLC's.  The figures, books and models are the expense.  The DLC is free w/ purchase.

You're looking at this in reverse.  If you spend $180 you're buying a bunch of concrete, phyical products and getting some free in-game content.

If the products didn't have a DLC pack-in the prices would remain the same.  Trying to paint this as paying $180 for DLC is an absolutely ridiculous argument because it's a 100% distortion of the facts.

Not to mention, the figures won't be out until on or around APRIL 25TH while launch is MARCH 6TH.  This is not Day 1 DLC or Launch DLC if it doesn't hit until over a month later.  The DLC was likely covered and paid for by the guarantee that Big Fish paid to secure the North American license.

Modifié par ODST 5723, 25 janvier 2012 - 08:00 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

The majority eat it up, presumably because DLC isn't very expensive if you have a job. Most DLC are priced around the same as a large alcholic drink.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 25 janvier 2012 - 08:13 .

[AlanC9]

Excellent point, tetrisblock4x1. Anyone with a job won't really care about $5 or so here or there. Hell, that's Starbucks' entire business model.

But I'm not sure that applies to the promotional DLCs. I think these figurines are a little bit past the impulse buy price level.

[mybudgee]

mmmm...LARGE alcoholic drinks....aaaahgggggg