678 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

Why can't these DLCs just be extra as in "Thanking for buying our products" rather than some pieces taken from the base game? O_o

I think it'll be cool if companies can just EXPLAIN how DLCs work. Do they REALLY make these extra items from scratch or are they just taken from the game itself etc?

[Poison_Berrie]

Savber100 wrote...

Why can't these DLCs just be extra as in "Thanking for buying our products" rather than some pieces taken from the base game? O_o

I think it'll be cool if companies can just EXPLAIN how DLCs work. Do they REALLY make these extra items from scratch or are they just taken from the game itself etc?

If you ask the companies themselves they will never say it's the latter. 
DLC weapons and armor so far has come across as overpowered cheat items, so I'm guessing a lot of it is made for that specific purpose rather than ripped out of the game.
People also forget that a lot of a game get's scrapped and cut before the final release and expansions and DLC have been a way to salavage/rework those things.

Honestly, though, a lot of people seem to think that's how it works always and that's why they cry foul over this. That or these people suffer some delusional entitlement. 

EDIT: I do however think this different DLC with everything is getting ridicilous. I'd be happier if content like this never even existed or condemend to content purgatory and have the DLC extras be something dependend solely on regular/collecters edition.

[LPPrince]

Savber100 wrote...

Why can't these DLCs just be extra as in "Thanking for buying our products" rather than some pieces taken from the base game? O_o

I think it'll be cool if companies can just EXPLAIN how DLCs work. Do they REALLY make these extra items from scratch or are they just taken from the game itself etc?

Some companies HAVE ripped stuff out to sell later, but thats the exception rather than the rule.

For example as stated before, a lot of these items are either overpowered or not balanced correctly, giving credence to the argument of being created as side content rather than being a piece of the main game.

And come on. Even if a company DID rip stuff out of the main game to sell separately, you know they'd never admit it.

That's why some people argue that they aren't getting a full game while others argue that we're getting bonuses to tack on to a main game.

I'm with the latter.

[nelly21]

Until someone can show me an example in ME 3 in which I am at point A and the only way to advance to point B is by purchasing dlc, I'm going to keep calling this argument melodramatic bs.

To beat the dead horse even further, I'll use the car analogy. If I buy a car, I can pay more for extra features. The car already comes optimized for these features. They are being held out of the cheaper models purposefully. But the cheaper model will get me where I want to go. The additional features are to make that trip even more pleasant. I can pay more or less. It's up to me. Should we picket in front of dealers and demand these additional items?

Swear to god, this argument is ridiculous.

[AlanC9]

LPPrince wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Why can't these DLCs just be extra as in "Thanking for buying our products" rather than some pieces taken from the base game? O_o

I think it'll be cool if companies can just EXPLAIN how DLCs work. Do they REALLY make these extra items from scratch or are they just taken from the game itself etc?

Some companies HAVE ripped stuff out to sell later, but thats the exception rather than the rule.

For example as stated before, a lot of these items are either overpowered or not balanced correctly, giving credence to the argument of being created as side content rather than being a piece of the main game.

Like the ME2 Firepower Pack? Or so I've heard, anyway.

Stripping out stuff from the base game for DLCs requires the game's project manager to be very, very stupid. Selling DLC has been EA policy for years now, so he's always known he's going to have to make some DLC stuff. If Bioware runs anything like any company I've ever worked with, they've got a project plan that shows what they're going to make, when they want it done, who's going to work on it, and how they're going to sell it.

However, stripping out items for a DLC is relatively easy -- no path-dependency issues to worry about, after all. So if a company suddenly changed its mind about how many DLCs it needed, that's the sort I'd expect to see improvised.

[hawat333]

LPPrince wrote...

You don't have to do anything. Its there as an option if you want it.

I'm opting out, I have no desire for figurines.

Same here.

And I guess the bonus content will be more like skins, or tapestry, whatever, but not serious stuff like a bonus character or mission.
If it was, well, then that would be messed up. But it's hardly the case here, I presume.

[CannonO]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

CannonLars wrote...
Those of us who want content have no choice. We get the content, and we just have to speak out about our issues with its release and how we get it. There is nothing wrong with that. It is feedback on something we feel is executed wrong, but as the only means to reach the product, we will have to follow their plans and hope they are respectable people that care about their customer's interests and experiences.

Let's be honest here. It's an incentive for those buying toy figurines.
DLC weapons and armor have been proven to usually be overpowered freebies. 
The characters are likely going to be Multiplayer skins. Anything that adds to the game's story will be out later for less of a price than these toys will be. 

In short. They give extra content to trick people into buying toys.

In all honesty, what I said was meant to apply to the DLC in general, not just with these figurines. My personal issue is witht the day one DLC, not the figures.

[AlanC9]

Lars, do I read that right? You're against DLC but you're going to buy it anyway and then complain about it?

[CannonO]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lars, do I read that right? You're against DLC but you're going to buy it anyway and then complain about it?

No, you did not read that right.

[AlanC9]

What confused me was that you said we have no choice, we get the content.

Though in the case of day 1 free DLC, like Zaeed, it'd be really dumb to refuse to download it.

[CannonO]

AlanC9 wrote...

What confused me was that you said we have no choice, we get the content.

Though in the case of day 1 free DLC, like Zaeed, it'd be really dumb to refuse to download it.

My original comment is longer than the one posted above you, so that may be part of the confusion. On page 6

We have no choice as fans of the content to forget its existence and stop seeking content. There is currently only a system where what they say, goes. My point is, for a fan who loves this series so deeply, saying just don't buy it is ridiculous. I will access the content because I care about the series enough to have more of it, but if I don't agree with the sole route that they allow me to access it through, my option is to provide feedback.

I don't like their day one exclusive DLC practices, but obviously I am interested in my complete experience. So, I download what I can and let them know my comments on the system until they change things.

It is dumb in general for them or anyone to assume "just don't buy it" is a real option when you care.

Buy it, but let BioWare know what was wrong or right about how they let you access the experience (since there is only "they're way" to access it anyways).

And some clarification:

CannonLars wrote...

SkyeHawk89 wrote...

I love DLC, bring it on. If you don't like DLC that's your problem. More Mass Effect the better.

People aren't complaining about DLC. The complaints are about the model for how they come to have DLC now on day one using content that would have been included in the game using their sales model from a few years ago. They instead withold content and call it bonus or DLC when it is in reality just content that would have previously been included in the game, no question. Weapons and armor DLC on day one (that were announced and shown months before the game was finalized) are a sales ploy. Not BioWare attempting to benefit us with special separate content in the same vein as post-release content.

Modifié par CannonLars, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:03 .

[AlanC9]

OK... but if you do buy it, then what's Bio's incentive to stop making it?

Avoiding a negative forum post vs. another $8 or so in the till...... there's only one way that decision plays out, I'm afraid.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:15 .

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK... but if you do buy it, then what's Bio's incentive to stop making it?

Pretty much this. Ultimately, as long as we keep buying, most companies won't care how much we complain. It's the potential threat of not buying which forces a reconsideration of tactics.

[CannonO]

AlanC9 wrote...

OK... but if you do buy it, then what's Bio's incentive to stop making it?

Avoiding a negative forum post vs. another $8 or so in the till...... there's only one way that decision plays out, I'm afraid.

Customer satisfaction. Some companies care about it. It would say a lot about them if they ignore the representation of customers who contact them.

[ODST 5723]

Il Divo, exactly. Netflix and Bank of America are two of the more recent public examples of what happens when large critical masses of customers balk at a business practice or a proposed change in a product/service.

If they didn't hear the large public complaint backed up by a significantly large portion of this client bases picking up and taking thier business elsewhere they wouldn't have scrambled to stop the plans they had already set in motion.

However, in those instances the customer clearly saw what was coming and could directly impact the companies who policies or changes they were resisting. With these piece of DLC, they will not. And to be honest, unless they're sold separately, they likely won't. These aren't any sort of major change and it's still unclear what the customer may or may not get from buying the figures. They're also promotional pack-ins attached to 2 series of action figures and not indicative of a new fee or dismantling an existing service bundle and replacing it with 2 bills that cost more money for the same level of service that was previously given.

And as for whether it's an ethical business practice, that's going to differ per person, however I'd wager that if people had all of the information they'd see it for what it is, a very minor promotional opportunity tied into the IP's merchandise which does not detract from the final product to the level that some are deluded into beleiving, along with all of the phantom threat lurking around the corner w/ half a game being sold for $60 so you can buy the ending for $10.

[Poison_Berrie]

CannonLars wrote...
We have no choice as fans of the content to forget its existence and stop seeking content. There is currently only a system where what they say, goes. My point is, for a fan who loves this series so deeply, saying just don't buy it is ridiculous. I will access the content because I care about the series enough to have more of it, but if I don't agree with the sole route that they allow me to access it through, my option is to provide feedback.

I don't like their day one exclusive DLC practices, but obviously I am interested in my complete experience. So, I download what I can and let them know my comments on the system until they change things.

Most of the DLC equipment is equipment. It's usefull to a fault compared to your strating and perhaps even mid to high level equipment so that it usually feels like cheating to me.
This stuff I can easily forget and you should be able to do fine without it. This is not something you should get an itch about.
Only the Collectors Edition has content that a caring fan (as you describe them) should feel the need to have. (extra character and mission, perhaps robo-dog). 

It is dumb in general for them or anyone to assume "just don't buy it" is a real option when you care.

Buy it, but let BioWare know what was wrong or right about how they let you access the experience (since there is only "they're way" to access it anyways).

By buying you are showing them that despite your reservation you will still cave in and buy it, so why bother with your reservations.
It's not that you don't have a choice, you just can't see the fluff from the actual content.

[RenegadeXV]

Does this apply to the ME3 Normandy models? They did come with a redeem code.

[ArkkAngel007]

COGNiTiON 1 wrote...

Does this apply to the ME3 Normandy models? They did come with a redeem code.

Wasn't that to have a Normandy avatar "toy" for 360?  I doubt that's an issue for the majority of those crying foul.

[HunterX6]

THIS IS A OUTRAGE!!! THE GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE STEEPED IN IF THE PUBLISHER TARGETED A HIGH class COLONY! =p

but yeah whatever it is it better be worth it and I mean like lots of weapons lot of extra mission, new planets, buy a house in a planet, more customization for weapons, armor and for your room or house. more background for each character. outfits, more options while interacting, etc.

[Il Divo]

ODST 5723 wrote...

Il Divo, exactly. Netflix and Bank of America are two of the more recent public examples of what happens when large critical masses of customers balk at a business practice or a proposed change in a product/service.

If they didn't hear the large public complaint backed up by a significantly large portion of this client bases picking up and taking thier business elsewhere they wouldn't have scrambled to stop the plans they had already set in motion.

However, in those instances the customer clearly saw what was coming and could directly impact the companies who policies or changes they were resisting. With these piece of DLC, they will not. And to be honest, unless they're sold separately, they likely won't. These aren't any sort of major change and it's still unclear what the customer may or may not get from buying the figures. They're also promotional pack-ins attached to 2 series of action figures and not indicative of a new fee or dismantling an existing service bundle and replacing it with 2 bills that cost more money for the same level of service that was previously given.

And as for whether it's an ethical business practice, that's going to differ per person, however I'd wager that if people had all of the information they'd see it for what it is, a very minor promotional opportunity tied into the IP's merchandise which does not detract from the final product to the level that some are deluded into beleiving, along with all of the phantom threat lurking around the corner w/ half a game being sold for $60 so you can buy the ending for $10.

Agreed. I can't say I like the idea of a company potentially removing portions of the game to be sold as dlc, but at the end of the day, it's their product to sell as they would like. As I see it, if the experience I pay for is enjoyable, it doesn't matter what was removed/added by the developers; I had fun. So far, any dlc I have not been interested in, I simply did not buy (including the Weapons and Armor packs). On the other hand, I've bought/enjoyed all the story/mission oriented dlc and had a blast.

[CannonO]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

CannonLars wrote...
We have no choice as fans of the content to forget its existence and stop seeking content. There is currently only a system where what they say, goes. My point is, for a fan who loves this series so deeply, saying just don't buy it is ridiculous. I will access the content because I care about the series enough to have more of it, but if I don't agree with the sole route that they allow me to access it through, my option is to provide feedback.

I don't like their day one exclusive DLC practices, but obviously I am interested in my complete experience. So, I download what I can and let them know my comments on the system until they change things.

Most of the DLC equipment is equipment. It's usefull to a fault compared to your strating and perhaps even mid to high level equipment so that it usually feels like cheating to me.
This stuff I can easily forget and you should be able to do fine without it. This is not something you should get an itch about.
Only the Collectors Edition has content that a caring fan (as you describe them) should feel the need to have. (extra character and mission, perhaps robo-dog). 

It is dumb in general for them or anyone to assume "just don't buy it" is a real option when you care.

Buy it, but let BioWare know what was wrong or right about how they let you access the experience (since there is only "they're way" to access it anyways).

By buying you are showing them that despite your reservation you will still cave in and buy it, so why bother with your reservations.
It's not that you don't have a choice, you just can't see the fluff from the actual content.

Buying it tells them I want content, but as EA is a huge company, they try to fix bad experiences usually or provide more good ones. If you consider your experience with their content or how you receive it to have problems, let them know what those problems are. They don't expect you to buy it and shut up about any concerns.

They are a big company and generally, that means they will try to listen, especially if plenty of people are concerned. It doesn't guarantee change, but they should certainly hear you out about their product and how perhaps you feel cornered in to buying certain ways  or that the content release timing is poorly executed.

[AlanC9]

CannonLars wrote...

Customer satisfaction. Some companies care about it. It would say a lot about them if they ignore the representation of customers who contact them.

You're not being ignored. You're just not going to be obeyed.

[Kasai666]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Kasai666 wrote...

The amount of whining in this thread is amazing. Don't like it, don't buy it. How hard is it to understand that?

And when this DLC succeeds, what comes next? How far is it going to escalate? How many people would gladly pay for half of Mass Effect 1, and pay $10 for Virmire and Ilos as extras?

Have some vision for ****s sake, and try to think about the long term implications.

I could ask the same of you. That isn't going to happen. There are still devs that don't use DLC. As long as they stay around, we have nothing to worry about. And thats also bullsh*t. Just because people buy things like this doesn't mean that its going to jump to paying for half a game at full price. Plus, you do realize that you are buying figureines that INCLUDE DLC, not the other way around. 

Modifié par Kasai666, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:33 .

[Chris Priestly]

Optional or bonus DLC is just that, optional.

I see this complaint a lot and I'm sorry, I do not find it valid. We are not focing you to buy figures or books or whatever to get DLC. We are providing a bonus for those people who buy these tems.

If we were scummy enough to do something like "the only way to finish ME3 is to buy 4 figures, a desktop Normandy, a rifle replica and send me 50 bucks" or whatever, THEN this would be a valid complaint. However, we are NOT doing this.

If you want a Garrus figure, great. You get a little something extra to use in game because you are  fan and you like our products. It is a small reward. If you don't want a Garrus figure, no problem. You get to keep your money and you can still play Mass Effect 3 unimpaired by not having this DLC.