148 réponses à ce sujet

[Morty Smith]

JohnEpler wrote...
'DA2 sucks' is neither of these things, and we've made it very clear what the consequences will be from this point forward.

DA3?

[alex90c]

So basically you hate DA2 because other people told you to.

That's rational.

So basically you're putting words in to my mouth.

No, they did not tell me to. I finished the game without much thought, then took a bit of time to reflect on what I liked and disliked about the game, took a look at other peoples' views on the game and began to realise that DA2 had quite a lot of faults in it when I actually broke down the "rights" and "wrongs" in the game and the former was vastly outweighed by the latter.

The rationale for certain things done in DA2 is definitely a big part of my dislike though, butchering the elves, turning the darkspawn in to a complete joke and removing all companion armour customisation in the name of "iconic!" and "distinctive!", and turning the combat in to "push button -> awesome" to make it more ... well to be honest I don't even know why just winds me up because I had no problem with them in Origins, and Bioware for some reason seem to think distinctive automatically means good, when it doesn't. Skyrim's elves look distinctive, but jeez they're ugly. I mean hell, they don't even need to be sexually appealing, they just simply need to look good, take the krogan or turians from Mass Effect which aren't sexually attractive at all, but they look distinctive and cool.

[John Epler]

Kroitz wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
'DA2 sucks' is neither of these things, and we've made it very clear what the consequences will be from this point forward.

DA3?

Let's try this again.

If you choose to post constructively, you can stay.

If you think that scoring points in some bizarre game that only you're playing is more important than being constructive, you can take a short vacation.

This is not particularly onerous, nor is it difficult to remember. Let me know if I'm wrong on the latter point.

[AtreiyaN7]

While replying a few days ago in response to that driver issue one guy had, I forgot to add that I pretty much agree with the OP - I enjoyed DA2, but I recognized that there were problems and even agreed with a number of points raised by people who loathed the game. However, some people just really, really, really like to beat dead horses and/or vent endlessly in a decidedly non-constructive manner.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 26 janvier 2012 - 09:15 .

[devSin]

JohnEpler wrote...

Let's try this again.

If you choose to post constructively, you can stay.

If you think that scoring points in some bizarre game that only you're playing is more important than being constructive, you can take a short vacation.

Really? I thought it was wit.

I mean, maybe if it was one of the people going on and on with the pointless ragging on DA2, but isn't it still permissable for the odd person to wander by and make a joke at your expense every once in a while?

Because if you filter out the persistent nonsense, the reply did make me chuckle. You've got people arguing about arguing about arguing about the game; I'd much rather have the random silly person posting than the regurgitated discourse that's typically on the menu here.

[John Epler]

devSin wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Let's try this again.

If you choose to post constructively, you can stay.

If you think that scoring points in some bizarre game that only you're playing is more important than being constructive, you can take a short vacation.

Really? I thought it was wit.

I mean, maybe if it was one of the people going on and on with the pointless ragging on DA2, but isn't it still permissable for the odd person to wander by and make a joke at your expense every once in a while?

Because if you filter out the persistent nonsense, the reply did make me chuckle. You've got people arguing about arguing about arguing about the game; I'd much rather have the random silly person posting than the regurgitated discourse that's typically on the menu here.

And always, I admit that I'm not perfect, and sometimes I will react poorly. Given a year on the forums, I think it's understandable, even if I'm not suggesting I'm always in the right.

However, users get variable slack depending on their posting history. Intent does matter, and while it's difficult to judge intent from a single post, one's history on the forums tends to give us a reasonably good indication of what their intention is with a particular post.

And, it should also be mentioned that -where- you post something matters. If you're coming into a thread where you've been specifically cautioned against a particular kind of post, and then you make that post, well, my sympathy is somewhat more limited.

[TEWR]

alex90c wrote...

So basically you hate DA2 because other people told you to.

That's rational.

So basically you're putting words in to my mouth.

No, they did not tell me to. I finished the game without much thought, then took a bit of time to reflect on what I liked and disliked about the game, took a look at other peoples' views on the game and began to realise that DA2 had quite a lot of faults in it when I actually broke down the "rights" and "wrongs" in the game and the former was vastly outweighed by the latter.

The rationale for certain things done in DA2 is definitely a big part of my dislike though, butchering the elves, turning the darkspawn in to a complete joke and removing all companion armour customisation in the name of "iconic!" and "distinctive!", and turning the combat in to "push button -> awesome" to make it more ... well to be honest I don't even know why just winds me up because I had no problem with them in Origins, and Bioware for some reason seem to think distinctive automatically means good, when it doesn't. Skyrim's elves look distinctive, but jeez they're ugly. I mean hell, they don't even need to be sexually appealing, they just simply need to look good, take the krogan or turians from Mass Effect which aren't sexually attractive at all, but they look distinctive and cool.

You know, I find it odd how people can say DAII's Elves look bad and aren't visually appealing when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people in Skyrim are still attracted to them (see Gallus and Karliah for one example)

Personality definitely is a reason, but if you can like the personality of those Elves so too should you be able to like the personality of the DA Elves when they do in fact look much better than Skyrim's Elves.

[alex90c]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

So basically you hate DA2 because other people told you to.

That's rational.

So basically you're putting words in to my mouth.

No, they did not tell me to. I finished the game without much thought, then took a bit of time to reflect on what I liked and disliked about the game, took a look at other peoples' views on the game and began to realise that DA2 had quite a lot of faults in it when I actually broke down the "rights" and "wrongs" in the game and the former was vastly outweighed by the latter.

The rationale for certain things done in DA2 is definitely a big part of my dislike though, butchering the elves, turning the darkspawn in to a complete joke and removing all companion armour customisation in the name of "iconic!" and "distinctive!", and turning the combat in to "push button -> awesome" to make it more ... well to be honest I don't even know why just winds me up because I had no problem with them in Origins, and Bioware for some reason seem to think distinctive automatically means good, when it doesn't. Skyrim's elves look distinctive, but jeez they're ugly. I mean hell, they don't even need to be sexually appealing, they just simply need to look good, take the krogan or turians from Mass Effect which aren't sexually attractive at all, but they look distinctive and cool.

You know, I find it odd how people can say DAII's Elves look bad and aren't visually appealing when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people in Skyrim are still attracted to them (see Gallus and Karliah for one example)

Personality definitely is a reason, but if you can like the personality of those Elves so too should you be able to like the personality of the DA Elves when they do in fact look much better than Skyrim's Elves.

I find Skyrim's elves ugly too.

[Gibb_Shepard]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

So basically you hate DA2 because other people told you to.

That's rational.

So basically you're putting words in to my mouth.

No, they did not tell me to. I finished the game without much thought, then took a bit of time to reflect on what I liked and disliked about the game, took a look at other peoples' views on the game and began to realise that DA2 had quite a lot of faults in it when I actually broke down the "rights" and "wrongs" in the game and the former was vastly outweighed by the latter.

The rationale for certain things done in DA2 is definitely a big part of my dislike though, butchering the elves, turning the darkspawn in to a complete joke and removing all companion armour customisation in the name of "iconic!" and "distinctive!", and turning the combat in to "push button -> awesome" to make it more ... well to be honest I don't even know why just winds me up because I had no problem with them in Origins, and Bioware for some reason seem to think distinctive automatically means good, when it doesn't. Skyrim's elves look distinctive, but jeez they're ugly. I mean hell, they don't even need to be sexually appealing, they just simply need to look good, take the krogan or turians from Mass Effect which aren't sexually attractive at all, but they look distinctive and cool.

You know, I find it odd how people can say DAII's Elves look bad and aren't visually appealing when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people in Skyrim are still attracted to them (see Gallus and Karliah for one example)

Personality definitely is a reason, but if you can like the personality of those Elves so too should you be able to like the personality of the DA Elves when they do in fact look much better than Skyrim's Elves.

Skyrim's elves are well done artistically though. They have a distinct and detailed design. Just because they are not physically attractive does not mean they are not a good design. I love the design of Krogan in Mass Effect, but i in no way find them attractive (Assuming the females look similar to the males).

My dislike of the DA2 elves isn't solely because they are not physically attractive (Although they SHOULD be, as that is what the lore states. Skyrim has no such lore). I dislike them because they are just a bad design. They are freakishly looking alien spawns, i just don't find their design at all appealing in an artistic or attractive way. 

[Lintanis]

Joining in on the thanks 
DA:O was good, DA 2 was great so if it carrys on DA 3 will be WOW 

[TEWR]

alex90c wrote...

I find Skyrim's elves ugly too.

What I'm getting at is that the complaints amongst a good portion of people that disliked the DAII Elves use the rationale of "How can anyone be attracted to those things?!" when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people of Skyrim find them attractive, yet I don't see people saying the same thing about them.

Your post simply made that thought come to mind, that's all.

It just seems like some people focus more on what they deem physically attractive then the other important things, which seems petty.

To people reading this note that I said some. This obviously won't hold true for all people that dislike the design.

I mean, the people of Thedas enjoy Elves because of their exotic beauty.

Exotic means strange -- which can have a good or bad connotation depending on context -- and originating in/characteristic of a foreign culture. In this case, it's a good connotation.

So it seems that they were never once called physically attractive -- that I can recall. If I'm wrong I'd gladly welcome a correction, provided verbatim dialogue/codex is provided -- but exotically beautiful.

And in my eyes, they are -- for the most part -- physically attractive.

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Skyrim's elves are well done artistically though. They have a distinct and detailed design. Just because they are not physically attractive does not mean they are not a good design. I love the design of Krogan in Mass Effect, but i in no way find them attractive (Assuming the females look similar to the males).

I never said it wasn't a good design. Just that they're uglier than DAII's Elves.

My dislike of the DA2 elves isn't solely because they are not physically attractive (Although they SHOULD be, as that is what the lore states. Skyrim has no such lore). I dislike them because they are just a bad design. They are freakishly looking alien spawns, i just don't find their design at all appealing in an artistic or attractive way. 

If it's not due just to the physical look, then what else is it due to?

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:29 .

[alex90c]

What I'm getting at is that the complaints amongst a good portion of people that disliked the DAII Elves use the rationale of "How can anyone be attracted to those things?!" when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people of Skyrim find them attractive, yet I don't see people saying the same thing about them.

Just for reference, what did elves in Oblivion look like? I played the game that little I don't actually even remember seeing one.

[Morty Smith]

JohnEpler wrote...

Kroitz wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
'DA2 sucks' is neither of these things, and we've made it very clear what the consequences will be from this point forward.

DA3?

Let's try this again.

If you choose to post constructively, you can stay.

If you think that scoring points in some bizarre game that only you're playing is more important than being constructive, you can take a short vacation.

This is not particularly onerous, nor is it difficult to remember. Let me know if I'm wrong on the latter point.

Jokes are not constructive, I guess I get it.

[Gibb_Shepard]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

alex90c wrote...

I find Skyrim's elves ugly too.

What I'm getting at is that the complaints amongst a good portion of people that disliked the DAII Elves use the rationale of "How can anyone be attracted to those things?!" when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people of Skyrim find them attractive, yet I don't see people saying the same thing about them.

Your post simply made that thought come to mind, that's all.

It just seems like some people focus more on what they deem physically attractive then the other important things, which seems petty.

To people reading this note that I said some. This obviously won't hold true for all people that dislike the design.

I mean, the people of Skyrim enjoy Elves because of their exotic beauty.

Exotic means strange -- which can have a good or bad connotation depending on context -- and originating in/characteristic of a foreign culture. In this case, it's a good connotation.

So it seems that they were never once called physically attractive -- that I can recall. If I'm wrong I'd gladly welcome a correction, provided verbatim dialogue/codex is provided -- but exotically beautiful.

And in my eyes, they are -- for the most part -- physically attractive.

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Skyrim's elves are well done artistically though. They have a distinct and detailed design. Just because they are not physically attractive does not mean they are not a good design. I love the design of Krogan in Mass Effect, but i in no way find them attractive (Assuming the females look similar to the males).

I never said it wasn't a good design. Just that they're uglier than DAII's Elves.

My dislike of the DA2 elves isn't solely because they are not physically attractive (Although they SHOULD be, as that is what the lore states. Skyrim has no such lore). I dislike them because they are just a bad design. They are freakishly looking alien spawns, i just don't find their design at all appealing in an artistic or attractive way. 

If it's not due just to the physical look, then what else is it due to?

Ir's wholely because of the physical look. I meant it's partly becaue they are not attractive (When the lore states they should be) but mostly because the design is just bad.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 28 janvier 2012 - 12:25 .

[TEWR]

alex90c wrote...

What I'm getting at is that the complaints amongst a good portion of people that disliked the DAII Elves use the rationale of "How can anyone be attracted to those things?!" when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people of Skyrim find them attractive, yet I don't see people saying the same thing about them.

Just for reference, what did elves in Oblivion look like? I played the game that little I don't actually even remember seeing one.

Eh they were ugly there as well, but that was also due to Oblivion's horrendous designs for pretty much everyone.

First city I went to I saw what I'm guessing was a Dunmer. Not only was he fat, but his face looked like something straight out of a cheesy cartoon show.

I stopped playing because I knew I would just end up laughing my ass off the entire game and not get anything done.

EDIT: In my post above that you quoted me on, I accidentally wrote Skyrim instead of Thedas when talking about exotic beauty.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 28 janvier 2012 - 12:28 .

[Masako52]

alex90c wrote...

What I'm getting at is that the complaints amongst a good portion of people that disliked the DAII Elves use the rationale of "How can anyone be attracted to those things?!" when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people of Skyrim find them attractive, yet I don't see people saying the same thing about them.

Just for reference, what did elves in Oblivion look like? I played the game that little I don't actually even remember seeing one.

No one really looked great in Oblivion. With some mods and work on the character creator, you could make a decent looking elf. But the default look was unattractive and generic (I think the only defining thing was different skin colors and weirder, stretched out looking faces). Pretty much everyone was a little meh, though, not just the elves. Skyrim's animation improved, but the elves are pretty weird looking. If you want a visual, a quick google image search is your friend.

Conversely, I love the DA2 elves, and I do think they're attractive. YMMV, I guess. I love Skyrim's visually striking environments and all, but tbh I think DA2's characters and facial animations/expressions were a lot more vivid and realistic.

And I'm mostly here to agree with thanking Bioware! DA2 is fab, and I eagerly await DA3. (but am hoping for more DLC for DA2 first, ha)

[SunnKingg]

I greatly enjoyed DA:O and DA2. I had no problems with the combat changes or the dialog wheel; although, I preferred DA:O's elf and darkspawn design.

Thank you Bioware for making these two great games.

Modifié par SunnKingg, 29 janvier 2012 - 04:33 .

[Achkas]

Whatever flaws I can find with some entries in the franchise, and whatever I think could be implemented better when I compare the DA series to other RPGs, I feel quite affectionate towards the DA universe. DA:O was my first western RPG, besides Fallout 3.

[alex90c]

Masako52 wrote...

alex90c wrote...

What I'm getting at is that the complaints amongst a good portion of people that disliked the DAII Elves use the rationale of "How can anyone be attracted to those things?!" when Skyrim's Elves are much worse and the people of Skyrim find them attractive, yet I don't see people saying the same thing about them.

Just for reference, what did elves in Oblivion look like? I played the game that little I don't actually even remember seeing one.

No one really looked great in Oblivion. With some mods and work on the character creator, you could make a decent looking elf. But the default look was unattractive and generic (I think the only defining thing was different skin colors and weirder, stretched out looking faces). Pretty much everyone was a little meh, though, not just the elves. Skyrim's animation improved, but the elves are pretty weird looking. If you want a visual, a quick google image search is your friend.

Conversely, I love the DA2 elves, and I do think they're attractive. YMMV, I guess. I love Skyrim's visually striking environments and all, but tbh I think DA2's characters and facial animations/expressions were a lot more vivid and realistic.

And I'm mostly here to agree with thanking Bioware! DA2 is fab, and I eagerly await DA3. (but am hoping for more DLC for DA2 first, ha)

Bah, I type in "oblivion elves" in to google images and I come across some pictures which are borderline pornographic.

Jeez.

[TEWR]

Bah, I type in "oblivion elves" in to google images and I come across some pictures which are borderline pornographic.

Jeez.

Oghren approves +50.

[alex90c]

THIS IS A SERIOUS ISSUE GUYS

MY EYES CAN NOT UNSEE THIS

[Teddie Sage]

Then poke them out?

Edit: I suggest a mod to shut down this thread now that it gone awry.

Modifié par Teddie Sage, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:42 .

[philippe willaume]

Joining the Thanks.
phil