437 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

I didn't find the renegade option to kill Chiala useful either...

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You cannot execute someone because they might do something dangerous down the road.

Actually you can, you are a Spectre after all.

You have the wrong idea here so let me set you straight.

It isn't executing somebody who might do something some day.

You are killing somebody who IS dangerous and COULD endanger others.

Think of the rachni queen as a desperate civilian trying to flee a quarantine zone. Maybe they are infected, maybe they aren't. However the safe thing to do is to shoot them to stop them from escaping and spreading the plague.

It has nothing to do with "punishment".

lol I love how you said you will set me straight.  How is the rachni queen a danger to others unless she chooses to be?  You  can clearly see that she is a rational being capable of intelligent thought and she is clearly able to make her own choices.   And the quarantine zone analogy fails as well since a person that may be infected has no control if they harm others or not in terms of infection.  Last I checked the rachni queen has all her facalties and is capable of not being a danger if she chooses not to be a danger.

[DecrepitBlade]

naledgeborn wrote...

You highlight the red part of the dialogue wheel with Mouse/Joystick. Proceed to press A/X/RMouse.

Renegade made easy hahahaha 

[Sylvianus]

android654 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If you have grenades and the knockout gas uprgade. If you're out of grenades? I had to shoot them all, had no option.

You can just punch them.

And get shot to ribbons while dodging their guns and those thorian zombies at the same time? Too much of a risk, just easier to kill them. They are shooting at me after all.

Colons are without armor, without kinetic shield, they can barely shoot accurately, they aren't soldiers.

But you and your squad, you have armor, kinetic shields, you are a member of the special forces that can neutralize any of them with one well placed shots in sensitive areas of their bodies.

You have knockout gaz, you have already fought the Geth, Krogan and, far worse than zombies.

With all that, you would not take the risk of simply neutralizing the colons ? It does not seem at all insurmountable.
That seems reasonable to try for me.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:20 .

[KotorEffect3]

Sylvianus wrote...

I didn't find the renegade option to kill Chiala useful either...

I only killed her once to satisfy curiosity.  Made me feel like a douchebag.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

How do you know that it was, when you had a pretty non-violent alternative that could very well have worked?

It could have worked or it could have failed spectacularly. These grenades are improvised weapons created by people with no known military expertise.

The toxin may work or it might not. Even if it does work you don't know how effective it will be or how long it will last.

Suppose that this happens: you use the knockout gas and everything seems fine. The colonists are paralyzed/sleeping and so you head down to the Thorian. Then when you are down there the effect begins to wear off and the colonists attack you from behind while you are fighting off the Creepers.

For all Shepard knows this could have happened. He takes out the colonists and then once he's behind enemy lines it wears off and they surround him. Shepard only has a three man time.

Killing the colonists is safer. Not to mention the speculation about them having any kind of infection or something.

Feros is one of the weaker Renegade decisions, but it is still not hard to justify with a little roleplaying.

And you knew all this without even testing the gas...how, exaxctly?

Oh, right. You're just trying to justify a Renegade option for the sole reason of it being a Renegade option.

By the way, just close and lock some doors before facing the Thorian. There. Now the colonists can't go after you, just in case they happen to wake up a few minutes after being hit by nerve-gas.

[Eragondragonrider]

My summary of being a renegade = Be the biggest baddest SOB in the galaxy and let my gun to the talking. When I walk into a room, people have to change their pants because they're so scared of me.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.

1.) How do you know it isn't necessary to kill the colonists on Feros?

2.) Don't be so vague

What the other times it wasn't necessary to sacrifice lives?

Don't meta-game.

You can know without metagaming that killing the colonists is not necessary.  They have crappy weapons and little to no training while Shepard and crew have top of the line weapons, armor, training, and experience.  Shepard has been trained for situations where he had to neutralize hostiles while minimizing civilian casualties. Thirdly the gas grenades give Shepard an option to neutralize the colonists quickly and safely and frankly it is easier to knock them out with the gas grenades than it is to kill them.

[Jozape]

Here's what we know of the Rachni Queen.

One, her entire species tried to wipe out the galaxy. It took everyone including the Krogans to stop them.
Two, what's left of her species is trying to kill every one on Noveria.
Three, killing her alone will insure that Rachni cannot be a threat ever again. One versus billions or even trillions.

Killing her seems very reasonable to me.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

lol I love how you said you will set me straight.

I'm a caring person and I can't stand to watch somebody wallow in ignorance.

KotorEffect3 wrote...

How is the rachni queen a danger to others unless she chooses to be?

We don't know whether or not she will choose to be.

IE: we don't know whether or not the civilian is infected

 

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You  can clearly see that she is a rational being capable of intelligent thought and she is clearly able to make her own choices.

That means she is as capable as anyone of choosing conflict instead of peace. Her rational mind makes her very dangerous at it. She's no primitive animal.

 

KotorEffect3 wrote...

And the quarantine zone analogy fails as well since a person that may be infected has no control if they harm others or not in terms of infection.

Oh I love the BSN. Everybody has to overanalyze every analogy to avoid confronting the point being made.

In any case, this argument doesn't hold up. The person does have a choice. They have chosen to risk endagering others by trying to flee. For all we know they have malicious intent too, or they don't even know they're infected.

The analogy stands.

Oh for crying out loud.  Anybody can choose conflict instead of peace.  Just because they can does not mean they will and you can't execute someone rationaly if they have not indicated they would choose conflict instead of peace.  You know who else can be dangerous?  The Krogan, the turians, the asari, the salarians, the quarians, the geth, the batarians, oh and don't forget our own species has shown that it can be very dangerous.  Using your logic we might as well just let the reapers win because everybody can be potentialy dangerous.   There is nobody more dangerous than a paranoid lunatic.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You can know without metagaming that killing the colonists is not necessary.

No you can't, not unless Shepard is psychic.

The colonists have been holding off geth for days, at least. Don't underestimate them. Don't underestimate anybody. Overconfidence is death for a soldier.

I liked how you cheery picked my quote without including the parts where I specificaly explained why Shepard and company know they can neutralize the colonists safely without metagaming.

[android654]

Saphra Deden wrote...
I'm a caring person and I can't stand to watch somebody wallow in ignorance.

A bleeding hear if ever I saw one.

Sylvianus wrote...

Colons are without armor, without kinetic shield, they can barely shoot accurately, they aren't soldiers.

But you and your squad, you have armor, kinetic shields, you are a member of the special forces that can neutralize any of them with one well placed shots in sensitive areas of their bodies.

You have knockout gaz, you have already fought the Geth, Krogan and, far worse than zombies.

With all that, you would not take the risk of simply neutralizing the colons ? It does not seem at all insurmountable.
That seems reasonable to try for me.

Someone who doesn't know what they're doing with a gun is way more dangerous than someone who knows what they're doing.

Is neutralizing them by shooting them in the foot or arm an option? Didn't think so, its kill'em or nock 'em out, and I'm out of grenades so I gots to kill them.

No Grenades I used them on the Geth, Krogan's, Zonmbies and much worse.

Again, walking into a room, people with guns shooting at me. Its a dozen people and about a dozen or more zombies versus three people. I had to do what I had to do to make sure we all made it back to the ship and that meant killing everyone before moving on.

[Jozape]

Killing the colonists is pretty silly, unless you have something more effective than gas grenades at stopping them from being a threat to you. Singularities maybe?

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

THAT'S THE POOOOOOOIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are taking something that has not been tested and betting your life, your mission, your squad, and the galaxy on it.

Someone With Mass wrote...

By the way, just close and lock some doors before facing the Thorian.

What doors?

1) Gee whiz, I guess it's too difficult for you to just chuck a grenade their way, and if it doesn't work, you can shoot the colonists or knock them out.

2) Seriously? There are dozens of doors spread out through that colony.

[android654]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

THAT'S THE POOOOOOOIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are taking something that has not been tested and betting your life, your mission, your squad, and the galaxy on it.

Someone With Mass wrote...

By the way, just close and lock some doors before facing the Thorian.

What doors?

1) Gee whiz, I guess it's too difficult for you to just chuck a grenade their way, and if it doesn't work, you can shoot the colonists or knock them out.

2) Seriously? There are dozens of doors spread out through that colony.

Doesn't matter how many doors there are since they're out in the open, the terminal is in the center of the people and the door to proceed onward is beneath the trailers that they're standing in front of. There are no options if you have no grenades, you've got to kill them

[Someone With Mass]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I liked how you cheery picked my quote without including the parts where I specificaly explained why Shepard and company know they can neutralize the colonists safely without metagaming.

That's his gimmick.

He does that all the time so he can come up with arguments that are usually covered in the paragraph after the one he quotes.

[KotorEffect3]

Jozape wrote...

Here's what we know of the Rachni Queen.

One, her entire species tried to wipe out the galaxy. It took everyone including the Krogans to stop them.
Two, what's left of her species is trying to kill every one on Noveria.
Three, killing her alone will insure that Rachni cannot be a threat ever again. One versus billions or even trillions.

Killing her seems very reasonable to me.

1:)  That is like blaming someone for the atrocities their ancestors commited.  If your great grandfather was murderer should I blame you even though you yourself are not responsible?

2:)  The rachni on noveria were driven insane.

3:)  Killing anyone will ensure they will no longer be a threat that does not justify it.  If you are going to use that logic don't complain when they use that same logic to wipe you out.  Every race in the ME universe is potentialy dangerous.  You guys are pretty much making the reapers argument for them.

[Sylvianus]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

And you knew all this without even testing the gas...how, exaxctly?

THAT'S THE POOOOOOOIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are taking something that has not been tested and betting your life, your mission, your squad, and the galaxy on it.

Someone With Mass wrote...

By the way, just close and lock some doors before facing the Thorian.

What doors?

Not sure what you mean. They have all their helmets, it protects against gas too. And disk grenades can be can be launched from a certain distance, and their fields of action is not as big as you say, these are just grenades with a limited field. And if they simply don't work, you could still use your weapons. They didn't disappear during this time.


I think he is talking about the entrance to the hiding place of the thorian that was revealed by an automatic door, operated by a button pressed on a computer.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:38 .

[KotorEffect3]

Someone With Mass wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I liked how you cheery picked my quote without including the parts where I specificaly explained why Shepard and company know they can neutralize the colonists safely without metagaming.

That's his gimmick.

He does that all the time so he can come up with arguments that are usually covered in the paragraph after the one he quotes.

Yeah I know, it is almost funny