437 réponses à ce sujet

[Katamariguy]

I'm a paragade since I prefer to be a "good guy" in most situations, especially life or death, but still stick to badass or sarcastic dialog choices. Notably, I keep the collector base due to the true pragmatism of the decision. It just seems that a lot of renegade choices fall into evil / jerkass.

[DecrepitBlade]

Rojahar wrote...

Obviously Renegade players need to stop RPing and start metagaming. Seriously, WTF is wrong with your Renegades?

People who can't make Renegade decisions in game are probably the kinds of people who try to white knight it all around town, it's pretty beta of them, but with that said not everyone is cut out to be a jerk.

[AgitatedLemon]

Unschuld wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...


Are you honestly using Saren as a counter point to the rachni being indoctrinated?

Really?

Lolwut? No....

I'm saying that unless you did Virmire prior to Noveria, there's no evidence to connect the dots that the Rachni were indoctrinated (hence why they "became" violent) by some giant race of machine-gods. There's nothing to suggest that they're inherently peaceful and were only killing everyone because something made them do it. The only evidence you have is that the rachni wars happened thousands of years ago because some Salarians stepped into a bee's nest and the "bees" started killing everything (also, it's mentioned that the rachni are extremely territorial) and it took quite a bit to stop them. That pretty much fits the danger-to-the-galactic-community standard that warrents their elimination.

So then why did you bring it up? 

Besides, the queen says (Through the asari on Illium) that she suspects the Reapers are the one who "Soured the song of the rachni" and blatantly says that they aren't inherently hostile.

Going off this, if the queen were given a chance to just be left alone, she'd take it.

But knowing the council, they'd just attempt another genocide.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:37 .

[android654]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

android654 wrote...
There are no options if you have no grenades, you've got to kill them

The side of my gun or elbow begs to differ.

You've got to be dense if it makes more sense to run into gunfire to punch someone while being chased by zombies and have to do it twelve times. Real dense. If you have no grenades or the upgrades and you don't kill the colonists you're taking unnecessary risks which makes no sense. Besides you're a spectre who cares what you do, you answer to no one, so kill all the people you can and bathe in their blood!

Then it is your fault for not being prepared.  One would assume that an elite special forces marine as well as being a spectre would be prepared.  And the council would prefer that spectres still use common sense they are just given extra liberties to eliminate the red tape and take drastic matter only when necessary.  The council is pretty damn careful about who they make into spectres.

Can't used them on the robots upstairs, you know the ones I planned to kill when I got here. This was an unknown variable that came up int he middle of a mission and did what was expected of me, I adapted to the situation. The best solution was to shoot s**t until everything stopped moving and remove the big threat that was beneath the colony.

Things change, a part of life.

Obviously you didn't adapt very well if you felt the need to kill the colonists.  The gas grenades are given to you either way you just chose not to use them.  And since feros was a human colony you knew that civilians would be there even before you go there.  alliance marines are trained to adjust to changing circumstances and they are trained to minimize civilian casualties.

Umm I did adapt and that meant in this situation that adaptation resulted in death. If it were a hostage situation with stealth mechanics, I would've tried that. But the option was shoot or bomb. I used the bombs before I got there. They were shooting so my options were gone, it became kill or be killed and I planned on walking out, so the shooters died. Sad, well not really, but a resolution none the less. Look at it this way, they're no longer in danger.

Well once again it is your fault for wasting your resources.  It is like using up all of your heavy weapon ammo before hitting the colossus on haestrom.  Besides when you get back to Zus Hope there is a box with grenades near the entrance so the game helps you out if you aren't prepared.  And how the hell can you not feel bad about it?  It isn't like you were killing scumbag mercs, you were shooting civilians that were being enslaved by the thorian.

Its not wasting when you're using them like they're supposed to be used, to kill robots.

Feel bad? Seriously? Like this is a serious question? I'm pretty sure you're f**king with me. You're not? Ok. NO, I didn't feel bad because its a game. There's no reason you should feel bad for killing video game characters because they're fictional. Fictional characters don't feel anything and the things you do to them have no consequence since its interactive fiction.

I made Adama Shepard with the explicit intent of making a killer in uniform. Even if I did have grenades, I wouldn't use the gas because I prefered the outcome most fitting to her character, and that needed dead colonists. If I could have, I would've killed the Exogeni people since they're responsible for the mess in the first place. If I had no restrictions I'd do to Zhu's Hope what I did to the Collector Base. Plant a giant f**king bomb and blast them to bits. Its safer and no one from Exogeni who could steal a peice of the Thorian and clone it or something foolish like that. But the furthest I could go was killing a handful of possesed puppet people, so she did that instead.

And you know what? She loved every single second of it, because she's a villain masquerading as a hero.

[KotorEffect3]

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

android654 wrote...
There are no options if you have no grenades, you've got to kill them

The side of my gun or elbow begs to differ.

You've got to be dense if it makes more sense to run into gunfire to punch someone while being chased by zombies and have to do it twelve times. Real dense. If you have no grenades or the upgrades and you don't kill the colonists you're taking unnecessary risks which makes no sense. Besides you're a spectre who cares what you do, you answer to no one, so kill all the people you can and bathe in their blood!

Then it is your fault for not being prepared.  One would assume that an elite special forces marine as well as being a spectre would be prepared.  And the council would prefer that spectres still use common sense they are just given extra liberties to eliminate the red tape and take drastic matter only when necessary.  The council is pretty damn careful about who they make into spectres.

Can't used them on the robots upstairs, you know the ones I planned to kill when I got here. This was an unknown variable that came up int he middle of a mission and did what was expected of me, I adapted to the situation. The best solution was to shoot s**t until everything stopped moving and remove the big threat that was beneath the colony.

Things change, a part of life.

Obviously you didn't adapt very well if you felt the need to kill the colonists.  The gas grenades are given to you either way you just chose not to use them.  And since feros was a human colony you knew that civilians would be there even before you go there.  alliance marines are trained to adjust to changing circumstances and they are trained to minimize civilian casualties.

Umm I did adapt and that meant in this situation that adaptation resulted in death. If it were a hostage situation with stealth mechanics, I would've tried that. But the option was shoot or bomb. I used the bombs before I got there. They were shooting so my options were gone, it became kill or be killed and I planned on walking out, so the shooters died. Sad, well not really, but a resolution none the less. Look at it this way, they're no longer in danger.

Well once again it is your fault for wasting your resources.  It is like using up all of your heavy weapon ammo before hitting the colossus on haestrom.  Besides when you get back to Zus Hope there is a box with grenades near the entrance so the game helps you out if you aren't prepared.  And how the hell can you not feel bad about it?  It isn't like you were killing scumbag mercs, you were shooting civilians that were being enslaved by the thorian.

Its not wasting when you're using them like they're supposed to be used, to kill robots.

Feel bad? Seriously? Like this is a serious question? I'm pretty sure you're f**king with me. You're not? Ok. NO, I didn't feel bad because its a game. There's no reason you should feel bad for killing video game characters because they're fictional. Fictional characters don't feel anything and the things you do to them have no consequence since its interactive fiction.

I made Adama Shepard with the explicit intent of making a killer in uniform. Even if I did have grenades, I wouldn't use the gas because I prefered the outcome most fitting to her character, and that needed dead colonists. If I could have, I would've killed the Exogeni people since they're responsible for the mess in the first place. If I had no restrictions I'd do to Zhu's Hope what I did to the Collector Base. Plant a giant f**king bomb and blast them to bits. Its safer and no one from Exogeni who could steal a peice of the Thorian and clone it or something foolish like that. But the furthest I could go was killing a handful of possesed puppet people, so she did that instead.

And you know what? She loved every single second of it, because she's a villain masquerading as a hero.

I bet dropping the F-bomb makes you feel like a really renegade badass.  And yes it is a video game but the position you take when actualy discussing the merit of your actions is reflective to your overall mentality and overall morality.  And yes I have done playthroughs where have I killed the colonists just to change up the flavor but when actualy discussing which option is the best I don't see how anyone can justify saying they wouldn't feel bad about it even if the it is a fictional situation.

[AgitatedLemon]

Did I land in Egypt?

Great quote pyramids of Giza!

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:44 .

[Unschuld]

AgitatedLemon wrote...


So then why did you bring it up? 

Besides, the queen says (Through the asari on Illium) that she suspects the Reapers are the one who "Soured the song of the rachni" and blatantly says that they aren't inherently hostile.

Going off this, if the queen were given a chance to just be left alone, she'd take it.

But knowing the council, they'd just attempt another genocide.

I brought it up because it's a valid point. At the time, you don't know anything about indoctrination other than Saren as the source. As for what the queen says, I already mentioned that, and didn't find it trustworthy since people will say anything to save themselves from the brink of death. Not only that, but it was incredibly vague. Since you brought up the thing about the Asari you meet on Illium in ME2, I'll invoke the spirit of the Saphra Deden, "But that's METAGAMING!!1!eleven!!"

And it is.

Yeah I know about it NOW, and I feel *sorta* bad about nixing a potential ally (though I've never met that Asari myself), but my Shepard (and me) didn't know at the time when I first played the game. So that's why I killed it, based on the evidence I had at the time. It was a valid choice based on that.

Modifié par Unschuld, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:48 .

[ParagonForLife]

Yuoaman wrote...

Seriously, I can't play more than an hour of Renegade before I feel like the biggest dick and want to stop.

 Same because honestly even fighting saren I felt sorry for him that he thought there was no hope and I was glad that at least at the end he had some hope 

[AgitatedLemon]

So what if it's metagaming? It doesn't make the queen's statement any less valid.

And why would she lie to Shepard on Illium? He doesn't know where she is, so she isn't taking any risks by saying anything. She has no reason to lie.

Not to mention that she has literally never done anything to imply hostility.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:55 .

[KotorEffect3]

Don't need to metagame to justify letting the queen free. Just need to talk to her and the scientists to realise that the queen is an intelligent being that is innocent.

[android654]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I bet dropping the F-bomb makes you feel like a really renegade badass.  And yes it is a video game but the position you take when actualy discussing the merit of your actions is reflective to your overall mentality and overall morality.  And yes I have done playthroughs where have I killed the colonists just to change up the flavor but when actualy discussing which option is the best I don't see how anyone can justify saying they wouldn't feel bad about it even if the it is a fictional situation.

Dropping the f-bomb? Are you sixty? I only said it twice, and I curse to my predilection, nothing more.

Well Adama's my favorite so I see Mass Effect the way she sees it. When I'm playing paragon I see it their way. The whole point of the variables in the game is to take advantage of those variables. I see the honor in saving them I see the practicality in killing them. Its very naive to think most things fall into black and white when things of actual consequence are grey and affected even more by the persons perspective.

So no, Adama has nothing to do with how I see people or the world, and to claim otherwise is to have a very narrow view of the purpose of fiction as a medium. Some people are presented as heroes and then prove to be fallible, Villains are proven to be human, and the purpose of this is to show that nothing is black and white but that morality is grey. If you ail to see that then you probably missed a lot of the big points in the story thus far.

Everyone is good and bad, self-sacrificing and sadistic, and not knowing that shows you could spend more time analyzing people.

Modifié par android654, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:56 .

[Mr. C]

     I tend to rationalize killing the Rachni queen as a necessary evil. The salarians uplifted the krogan to battle the rachni due to not only their fortitude, but also to their speed of reproducing. They were the only species who could match the rachni's birthrate. With the genophage, that advantage is out the window. Saren and his geth were a big enough thorn in the galaxy's side without the added threat of death by Starship Trooper wannabes.
     At that point in the story, the fate of the protheans was still up in the air. They were certainly massacred, but whether it was "Reapers" that did the deed was merely speculation. When Shepard found the queen on Noveria, he had no way of knowing that they would one day assist against an invasion of giant cuttle-bots. He was going on her word that she'd be a nice rachni, and the rest of her kind were indoctrinated, alone. And, given their history, coupled with no real evidence in favor of them being mind controlled, extermination was the surefire way of remaining secure.

In short; Was it the right choice? No. Was it the safe choice? Yes.

[android654]

Mr. C wrote...

     I tend to rationalize killing the Rachni queen as a necessary evil. The salarians uplifted the krogan to battle the rachni due to not only their fortitude, but also to their speed of reproducing. They were the only species who could match the rachni's birthrate. With the genophage, that advantage is out the window. Saren and his geth were a big enough thorn in the galaxy's side without the added threat of death by Starship Trooper wannabes.
     At that point in the story, the fate of the protheans was still up in the air. They were certainly massacred, but whether it was "Reapers" that did the deed was merely speculation. When Shepard found the queen on Noveria, he had no way of knowing that they would one day assist against an invasion of giant cuttle-bots. He was going on her word that she'd be a nice rachni, and the rest of her kind were indoctrinated, alone. And, given their history, coupled with no real evidence in favor of them being mind controlled, extermination was the surefire way of remaining secure.

In short; Was it the right choice? No. Was it the safe choice? Yes.

In the short termk, the safe choice and the right choice are often the same. In the future? No one can see the future, so to not be safe would be foolish, so killing her is the safe and smart thing to do, with or without anyone else giving their input.

[Unschuld]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

So what if it's metagaming? It doesn't make the queen's statement any less valid.

It doesn't, you're right. I'm not debating the validity of the paragon choice, because that seems to be proven to provide positive results once you get to ME2. What I am doing is validating the renegade choice, at the time of decision, because it was the most logical choice given the information pre-Noveria and pre-Virmire. An entire history from multiple species outweighs a vague message by a trapped organism that might just be lying to escape and wreck havok throughout the galaxy (again) because you let it go.

AgitatedLemon wrote... 
And why would she lie to Shepard on Illium? He doesn't know where she is, so she isn't taking any risks by saying anything. She has no reason to lie.

I was talking about the rachni queen through the Asari meatpuppet on Noveria, actually. The Asari on Illium *could* be "lying" since she seems brainwashed, but I'm not debating that. Like I said, I've never met her due to my playthrough choices.

Modifié par Unschuld, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:02 .

[KotorEffect3]

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I bet dropping the F-bomb makes you feel like a really renegade badass.  And yes it is a video game but the position you take when actualy discussing the merit of your actions is reflective to your overall mentality and overall morality.  And yes I have done playthroughs where have I killed the colonists just to change up the flavor but when actualy discussing which option is the best I don't see how anyone can justify saying they wouldn't feel bad about it even if the it is a fictional situation.

Dropping the f-bomb? Are you sixty? I only said it twice, and I curse to my predilection, nothing more.

Well Adama's my favorite so I see Mass Effect the way she sees it. When I'm playing paragon I see it their way. The whole point of the variables in the game is to take advantage of those variables. I see the honor in saving them I see the practicality in killing them. Its very naive to think most things fall into black and white when things of actual consequence are grey and affected even more by the persons perspective.

So no, Adama has nothing to do with how I see people or the world, and to claim otherwise is to have a very narrow view of the purpose of fiction as a medium. Some people are presented as heroes and then prove to be fallible, Villains are proven to be human, and the purpose of this is to show that nothing is black and white but that morality is grey. If you ail to see that then you probably missed a lot of the big points in the story thus far.

Everyone is good and bad, self-sacrificing and sadistic, and not knowing that shows you could spend more time analyzing people.

. 
I have no problem seeing things from my different Shepard's point of view.  I am actualy doing a renegade playthrough right now (well more of a renegon but renegons are basically renegades that aren't mindless about it).  But on here I am discussing my point of view and what choice I would make in that situation not my Shepard's point of view.  Also when dealing with people like Saphra it is like talking to a brick wall.

[BlueMagitek]

There are a lot of Renegade decisions that you can back up as pragmatic. Some are just jerkish though.

I'd suggest using an imported save and just playing however you'd like with the Para/Rene bonuses. Less need to stick to one side or another to open dialog options.

Though I get the feeling that over ten pages later, my comments aren't necessary.

[android654]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I bet dropping the F-bomb makes you feel like a really renegade badass.  And yes it is a video game but the position you take when actualy discussing the merit of your actions is reflective to your overall mentality and overall morality.  And yes I have done playthroughs where have I killed the colonists just to change up the flavor but when actualy discussing which option is the best I don't see how anyone can justify saying they wouldn't feel bad about it even if the it is a fictional situation.

Dropping the f-bomb? Are you sixty? I only said it twice, and I curse to my predilection, nothing more.

Well Adama's my favorite so I see Mass Effect the way she sees it. When I'm playing paragon I see it their way. The whole point of the variables in the game is to take advantage of those variables. I see the honor in saving them I see the practicality in killing them. Its very naive to think most things fall into black and white when things of actual consequence are grey and affected even more by the persons perspective.

So no, Adama has nothing to do with how I see people or the world, and to claim otherwise is to have a very narrow view of the purpose of fiction as a medium. Some people are presented as heroes and then prove to be fallible, Villains are proven to be human, and the purpose of this is to show that nothing is black and white but that morality is grey. If you ail to see that then you probably missed a lot of the big points in the story thus far.

Everyone is good and bad, self-sacrificing and sadistic, and not knowing that shows you could spend more time analyzing people.

. 
I have no problem seeing things from my different Shepard's point of view.  I am actualy doing a renegade playthrough right now (well more of a renegon but renegons are basically renegades that aren't mindless about it).  But on here I am discussing my point of view and what choice I would make in that situation not my Shepard's point of view.  Also when dealing with people like Saphra it is like talking to a brick wall.

Well Isee it more as a work of fiction than interactive to the point that Shepard is less of a character and more of an avatar. My favorite Shepard kills anything that threatens her because she only values her own life. Which is probably the most pragmatic decision a person can make in life. So if she's staring into a hall with a dozen armed people shooting at her she'll kill all of them first and when the dust settles and everyone's dead , then she might wonder what just happened. Does she care about the Thorian possesing them? No. Does she care they had no idea? No. All she cares about is who shot at her and how can she kill them.

That's all it takes to play renegade. I'm not killing innocent people, Adama's killing people. I don't have to understand why she does it, but she has to and it makes more sense as a renegade than a paragon. Think more like an actor rather than a gamer, and playing rengade will be easier than paragon.

Also, its more satisfying to toss the bad guys out the window or shoot the propane takn under them. It's also hilarious when you're telling them they'll bleed out and die or shooting a merc on her first week. You don't f**k with Shepard.

[KotorEffect3]

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

android654 wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I bet dropping the F-bomb makes you feel like a really renegade badass.  And yes it is a video game but the position you take when actualy discussing the merit of your actions is reflective to your overall mentality and overall morality.  And yes I have done playthroughs where have I killed the colonists just to change up the flavor but when actualy discussing which option is the best I don't see how anyone can justify saying they wouldn't feel bad about it even if the it is a fictional situation.

Dropping the f-bomb? Are you sixty? I only said it twice, and I curse to my predilection, nothing more.

Well Adama's my favorite so I see Mass Effect the way she sees it. When I'm playing paragon I see it their way. The whole point of the variables in the game is to take advantage of those variables. I see the honor in saving them I see the practicality in killing them. Its very naive to think most things fall into black and white when things of actual consequence are grey and affected even more by the persons perspective.

So no, Adama has nothing to do with how I see people or the world, and to claim otherwise is to have a very narrow view of the purpose of fiction as a medium. Some people are presented as heroes and then prove to be fallible, Villains are proven to be human, and the purpose of this is to show that nothing is black and white but that morality is grey. If you ail to see that then you probably missed a lot of the big points in the story thus far.

Everyone is good and bad, self-sacrificing and sadistic, and not knowing that shows you could spend more time analyzing people.

. 
I have no problem seeing things from my different Shepard's point of view.  I am actualy doing a renegade playthrough right now (well more of a renegon but renegons are basically renegades that aren't mindless about it).  But on here I am discussing my point of view and what choice I would make in that situation not my Shepard's point of view.  Also when dealing with people like Saphra it is like talking to a brick wall.

Well Isee it more as a work of fiction than interactive to the point that Shepard is less of a character and more of an avatar. My favorite Shepard kills anything that threatens her because she only values her own life. Which is probably the most pragmatic decision a person can make in life. So if she's staring into a hall with a dozen armed people shooting at her she'll kill all of them first and when the dust settles and everyone's dead , then she might wonder what just happened. Does she care about the Thorian possesing them? No. Does she care they had no idea? No. All she cares about is who shot at her and how can she kill them.

That's all it takes to play renegade. I'm not killing innocent people, Adama's killing people. I don't have to understand why she does it, but she has to and it makes more sense as a renegade than a paragon. Think more like an actor rather than a gamer, and playing rengade will be easier than paragon.

Also, its more satisfying to toss the bad guys out the window or shoot the propane takn under them. It's also hilarious when you're telling them they'll bleed out and die or shooting a merc on her first week. You don't f**k with Shepard.

You see and that is the thing I don't feel bad about the merc on Ilium or the rambling Krogan because both of them are scumbags that had it coming anyway.   But in the case of the feros colonists they don't necessarily deserve to die so I aint exactly happy about that.   I do admit that I do probably take the series a little too seriously at times but these are the most damn compelling video games I have ever played.

[KBomb]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

So you base your rachni decision on their phyisiological appearence?

Pretty much all I needed. If I had my way, the batarians and vorcha would be in the acid vat with her.

[tetrisblock4x1]

I don't deal with it, it is a game, none of it is real. Ever hear of a game called Mask of the Betrayer? I've devoured the souls of followers that trusted me to become a god. Fed that godly power with the life and soul of an entire species and then sent the species children to have their brains eaten by monsters and used as mindless husks in slavery. And I shed not a tear.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:18 .

[KotorEffect3]

KBomb wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

So you base your rachni decision on their phyisiological appearence?

Pretty much all I needed. If I had my way, the batarians and vorcha would be in the acid vat with her.

*facepalms*

[KBomb]

KotorEffect3 wrote...


*facepalms*

Ah, yes. The "facepalm”. How charming. You see, I don’t need a video game to make me feel good about my moral compass. I have a steady course of morals in real life, you know, where it actually matters? So, if someone wants to kill a fictional character simply because they find them unappealing, or dangerous to the world order they want to protect, or just for ****s and giggles, that’s okay. That is the enjoyment of playing a video game. If you, as a paragon, wishes to go around and save the world so you can get a warm, cozy feeling--then wonderful. Just stop judging people because they want something different. After all, that isn’t a very…paragon thing to do, now is it?

[Labrev]

[quote]Saphra Deden wrote...

[quote]Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

The one repeating ignorant lies are
the posters who repeatedly make the false claim that "paragon always
wins."[/quote]

It's not a false claim, it is true. Name one time the Paragon has given up the mission or lives or content or their reputation or loyalty or any kind of reward.[/quote]

--> Mission: Zaeed LM, and very possibly loyalty as well (very high score needed for Charm option).
--> Lives: save the council = weaker Alliance, ME1 sidequests where the top-right option is to arrest criminals (ExoGeni scientists, Helena Blake & henchmen...) thus turning them hostile.
--> Content: said NPCs when killed, watching Zaeed fry Vido alive.
--> Reputation: Khalisa's interview should Shepard elect to walk out, being told by a squad member that letting Rana go was a mistake.
--> Reward: tech damage upgrade if Tali is exiled.



[quote]Oh wow, news Reports. I'm so thankful for that.[/quote]

So like I said, it's not good enough until/unless it's have-your-cake-and-eat-it caliber good, like the paragon path?



[quote]Guess what? Even though we killed the rachni we're still giong to have to fight them in ME3. So killing the queen was pointless.[/quote]

Jump to conclusions mat much?

The rachni queen encountered is different based on the ME1 decision, and the outcomes of that mission in ME3 are different - likely depending on the ME1 decision as well.

We're talking about the Reapers, the minds behind the mass relays, Citadel, and an inaccessible space station in the galactic core being run by cloned Prothean foot soldiers. There's nothing so unbelieveable about them cloning a species it had once previously indoctrinated.

And this is why I have about 0 sympathy left for the renegade players that still bemoan how "hard" their path is. If only people who saved the queen got this mission, there'd be endless complaining about how paragons got a cool mission of their own and renegades were once again robbed of part of the game. But with that not the case, the complaint is now how "our decision didn't matter."

By that logic, you can disregard the vast majority of extra content earned by Paragon decisions since they largely will not matter either.


[quote]There is no promise of an ally and no eliminated threat.[/quote]

You deemed it a threat and eliminated the threat when you killed it.

And, anyone saying they made that decision with the idea of making allies is either full of it or out of their mind. Or both.



[quote]

[quote]Wrex: can be saved as a renegade, and a paragon player can lose him too.[/quote]
The Renegade does not always loose, but the Paragon does always win.[/quote]

Remember this.




[quote][quote]-- Council:
if saved, they basically spend the time in ME2 telling you what an
idiot you are. [/quote]

At least you get to meet them. You get that little bit of extra content. It isn't much but it is more than I got. All I got was Anderson. What's worse, what I got was the same as somebody who started from scratch and didn't even import a career from ME1. 

How can you call that fair?[/quote]

Actually I don't. That's one of the very few gripes I do feel is valid. But, maybe it was for the best. If they didn't have a replacement council ready for ME2, at least they didn't rush it and produce lesser characters for the sake of a cameo role that had no impact in the game at all.

And there's also an advantage with the new council over the old in the leaked info.




[quote][quote]Hah Yes Reapers... wrote...

And
that's it. That's the big choice and consequence we've seen up to this
point. [/quote]

[quote]No, those are just the only examples you wanted to lift from Genesis. A lot was left out. Let's look at ME2:[/quote]

I had a distinct reason for choosing the Genesis decisions:
1.) To use only decisions that are actually important to the story, disregard the countless others that are not and therein present no significant advantage between sides.
2.) To use only decisions for which we've seen some consequences out of from game-to-game.

If I pulled out my jump-to-conclusions-mat for my decision to spare the rachni queen in ME1, I'd have concluded I made the wrong choice because everyone told me so post-mission (Council criticizes it, Ashley says she'd have killed it, Kaidan said it'd have been safer for the council to decide). But ME2 now suggests otherwise (still not a guarantee, but positive foreshadowing enough to put the negative ones to some bit of rest).

Which basically brings me back to my main point. The consequences that renegades have been decrying so loudly up to this point are ultimately trivial issues at best. Council was worth nothing aside from content, and the rachni decision was acknowleged in a way that suggests the player did the right thing. In the end, I question how "renegade" a player truly is if these most minor of repercussions are enough to make them feel personally invalidated of all their convictions, falling apart like that house of cards.

Now remember what I told you to remeber. When noting the one decision that actually has had any significant impact between games that we've seen thus far (Wrex's survival of ME1) we've seen balance: both Paragon and Renegade players got a fair shake at making it happen.


[quote]On Zaeed's Loyalty Mission the Paragon path grants his loyalty, saves lives, and gets you more money. [/quote]

Loyalty only if you're character can meet the very high Paragon requirement check, a grand total of three lives, and 30,000 extra credits in a game where the 500,000 cash bounty collected on selling Cerberus the geth salvage isn't even enough to buy out the stores on Illium. 30,000 credits doesn't upgrade a pistol at a discounted price.

You also let the bad guy get away while the Renegade path offers an enjoyable cutscene of watching him die. And loyalty is a guarantee on the Renegade path, even though the player has no way of knowing that Vido won't get away anyway and render the mission and sacrifice alike a failure, because it does work out in the end.


[quote]Taking Veetor to Cerberus gets you nothing and Veetor is traumatized in the process. Hurray?[/quote]

I see your Veetor and raise you an Elnora.

It's not like one would have thought of it themself if not for Tali barging in and saying "Veetor needs treatment, not an interrogation" but her saying it was a massive give-away. When I heard that line I was like "Oh wow, these bastards interrogate? Well screw that then."

As this article says, leave it to the player to miss all the blatant warning signs. In the article's case, it's not launching the suicide mission right after the crew abduction, and being shocked that they die.
[Ctrl + F "crewmen" to find the paragraph]. Join us next time for Cerberus betrayal of Shepard in ME3.


[quote]I'm sure you won't talk about ME3. I'm sure you'll hide beind Bioware and their lie about the leak not being reflective about the game. Perhaps when the game is released you'll change your tune but I'm not counting on it.[/quote]

I'd rather avoid ME3 because for one, I'm not completely clear about everything (I only got to look over the script once myself, and at this point, am just looking at bits and pieces from the group) and for two, I don't want to openly type spoilers when many people are trying to avoid it. It's against site rules anyway.

Anyway, I'll judge ME3 on its own merits after it comes out. I've read the common complaints and the vast majority of them are the same old hate-mongers (Seboist and Kaiser Shepard) jumping to conclusions and posting BS.

By the way, I've handed BW my share of criticism for plenty of things in both games, and I sure as hell will do it again in ME3. So if we're talking about tunes, I know exactly how the ME3 hate-mongers are going to respond to it:

(1) response to negativity: I TOLD YOU SO!!! *joins in on game-bashing conversation*
(2) response to positivity: Hmph, Biodrone. The only people with clear opinions are the ones who see it as a horrible game.

You can't win against the hate-mongers.


[quote]Going into ME3, if I play it, I will know ahead of time how each choice will turn out, roughly. Not because of the Leak, but because I know how Bioware does things.

Paragon = Good outcome, happiness, and more content

Renegade = Bad outcome, misery, and less content[/quote]

There are plenty of good outcomes, content, and praise to be had for renegade decisions in ME3 if the leaked info is accurate. But like I said, I'm not keen on talking about the game that isn't out and for which many have not read the spoilers and don't want to be spoiled.

But you can bet I'll be here again after I've played the game a few times. So by all means, hold me to it then. "If" you play it (not that there is any question that you will play it, as will all the hate-mongers who claim to not be interested in the game anymore but are still posting on this site).

To that end, I'm testing this very thing for myself:

Pure Paragon vs. Anti-Paragon.

I probably won't get around to it until much later, as these happen to be my least favorite imports ("bastard children" as I have dubbed them), but I will at some point and will surely report my resulted findings.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:41 .

[Han Shot First]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Don't need to metagame to justify letting the queen free. Just need to talk to her and the scientists to realise that the queen is an intelligent being that is innocent.

This.

...and that the Rachni Wars were Sovereign's Plan A. The reason why no other species could communicate with he Rachni at that time, and why they were so aggressive, was that they had fallen under Reaper indoctrination. Every organic species in the galaxy (including humans) is just as susceptible to Reaper indoc.

You don't have to metagame to realize that the Queen isn't your enemy.