437 réponses à ce sujet

[mango smoothie]

Making Renegade decisions is easy because....
imageshack.us/f/201/theillusiveavery.png/

Lol JK it's been a boring night.

[Heimdall]

Not all renegade decisions are pragmatic or even terribly pro human. Sometimes they just make you a jerk.

I maintain that destroying the base is a pragmatic decision, though entirely unrelated to Shepard's stated reason.

[Jotamide]

I didn't hug Tali. Do I win?

[sonofalich]

i always feel bad playing as renegade.

[Graunt]

Yuoaman wrote...

MJvasNormandy wrote...

The real question is, how do people go through multiple playthroughs and still make the same choices as always?

Because I find it hard to go against my own nature?

I think some actually don't know what roleplaying means.  

Anyway, considering I'm not twelve, and it's a video game, it's easy to play both sides.  I typically go Paragon first, Renegade second just to see the dialogue options and the results.  I guess that's one benefit of being impartial.

mango smoothie wrote...

Making Renegade decisions is easy because....
imageshack.us/f/201/theillusiveavery.png/

Lol JK it's been a boring night.

Vaguely resembles Joseph Gordon Levitt and Jerry Seinfeld.

Modifié par Graunt, 23 janvier 2012 - 08:09 .

[KotorEffect3]

KBomb wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...


*facepalms*

Ah, yes. The "facepalm”. How charming. You see, I don’t need a video game to make me feel good about my moral compass. I have a steady course of morals in real life, you know, where it actually matters? So, if someone wants to kill a fictional character simply because they find them unappealing, or dangerous to the world order they want to protect, or just for ****s and giggles, that’s okay. That is the enjoyment of playing a video game. If you, as a paragon, wishes to go around and save the world so you can get a warm, cozy feeling--then wonderful. Just stop judging people because they want something different. After all, that isn’t a very…paragon thing to do, now is it?

Because your reasoning is stupid.  At least Saphra tries to find a real reason.    I can play other games if I want to do stupid things for no reason.  Even though I don't agree with them at least the other renegades have some reasoning where it isn't for the lulz.  Now shooting Conrad Verner in the foot for the lulz I totally get, that scene actualy is funny.  Killing the rachni queen for a stupid reason and thinking it is funny is stupid.  Now killing her because you think she may be a threat I can understand (don't agree with it but I understand).  So yeah your reasoning is facepalm worthy.

Modifié par KotorEffect3, 23 janvier 2012 - 08:19 .

[StephanieBengal]

MartinDN wrote...

 So im playing my last playthrough now of me1 to 2 before 3 is released as pure renegade...its so difficult, ive just done noveria and my god killing the queen was SO sad, i had to skip some of that dialogue, i mean sure its only a game but i just dont know how i can finish this.

I was enjoying playing renegade up to this point, how do you deal with this ?

it's only a game, just like you said. 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Some of us are frustrated because so far in Mass Effect every Renegade sacrifice has been for nothing and every gamble taken by the Paragon has paid. 

That hasn't happened though.

Saving the Council has done nothing so far.
Saving the Rachni Queen has done nothing so far.
Saving the Genophage data has done nothing so far.
Destroying the Base has done nothing so far.
Rewriting the Geth has done nothing so far.

The only decisions that have had any impact so far have been ones to do with characters - namely whether they live or die - and those aren't affected by morality.

Incorrect,

Saving the Council gives you their support and a extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  Interpecies relations are improved and humanity's in a stronger position (Shepard is also treated nicer at stores).  No Renegade choice benefits (if any) are actually demonstrated in the game.

Saving the Rachni Queen gives you their support and an extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  You also found out that the only reason they did what they did was because that group was apparently indoctrinated... no real/inherent reason to kill them.

Saving the Genophage data resulted in no negative outcome, the Renegade alternative has not been shown to be any better.

Destroying the Base gives you complete and total support/praise/respect from your squad (even the ones who felt you should've kept the base only minutes before).  Cererus is your enemy in Mass Effect 3 regardless... making only the Renegade alternative a pointless/lesser-outcome choice on both fronts.

Rewriting the Geth provides no negative consequence and is not lesser than the Renegade alternative...

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 23 janvier 2012 - 08:29 .

[KotorEffect3]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Some of us are frustrated because so far in Mass Effect every Renegade sacrifice has been for nothing and every gamble taken by the Paragon has paid. 

That hasn't happened though.

Saving the Council has done nothing so far.
Saving the Rachni Queen has done nothing so far.
Saving the Genophage data has done nothing so far.
Destroying the Base has done nothing so far.
Rewriting the Geth has done nothing so far.

The only decisions that have had any impact so far have been ones to do with characters - namely whether they live or die - and those aren't affected by morality.

Incorrect,

Saving the Council gives you their support and a extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  Interpecies relations are improved and humanity's in a stronger position (Shepard is also treated nicer at stores).  No Renegade choice benefits (if any) are actually demonstrated in the game.

Saving the Rachni Queen gives you their support and an extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  You also found out that the only reason they did what they did was because that group was apparently indoctrinated... no real/inherent reason to kill them.

Saving the Genophage data resulted in no negative outcome, the Renegade alternative has not been shown to be any better.

Destroying the Base gives you complete and total support/praise/respect from your squad (even the ones who felt you should've kept the base only minutes before).  Cererus is your enemy in Mass Effect 3 regardless... making only the Renegade alternative a pointless/lesser-outcome choice on both fronts.

Rewriting the Geth provides no negative consequence and is not lesser than the Renegade alternative...

Actualy you have no idea how the base outcome or the geth decision will play out.  Just because cerberus is the enemy now doesn't necessarily mean the player won't benefit if they preserved the base although I am glad I blew the thing up in my canon run.  As for the geth outcome that is one decision where I think the renegade decision is better because rewriting the geth sounds more like brainwashing/indoctrination would rather just be rid of the heretics.

[DJBare]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Actualy you have no idea how the base outcome or the geth decision will play out.  Just because cerberus is the enemy now doesn't necessarily mean the player won't benefit if they preserved the base although I am glad I blew the thing up in my canon run.  As for the geth outcome that is one decision where I think the renegade decision is better because rewriting the geth sounds more like brainwashing/indoctrination would rather just be rid of the heretics.

You should read over your sentence again, the base was saved for who?, who is now the enemy in ME3?, basically a renegade shep gave TIM the weapon and ammo to use against him/her.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Incorrect,

Saving the Council gives you their support and a extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  Interpecies relations are improved and humanity's in a stronger position (Shepard is also treated nicer at stores).  No Renegade choice benefits (if any) are actually demonstrated in the game.

Saving the Rachni Queen gives you their support and an extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  You also found out that the only reason they did what they did was because that group was apparently indoctrinated... no real/inherent reason to kill them.

Saving the Genophage data resulted in no negative outcome, the Renegade alternative has not been shown to be any better.

Destroying the Base gives you complete and total support/praise/respect from your squad (even the ones who felt you should've kept the base only minutes before).  Cererus is your enemy in Mass Effect 3 regardless... making only the Renegade alternative a pointless/lesser-outcome choice on both fronts.

Rewriting the Geth provides no negative consequence and is not lesser than the Renegade alternative...

Actualy you have no idea how the base outcome or the geth decision will play out.  Just because cerberus is the enemy now doesn't necessarily mean the player won't benefit if they preserved the base although I am glad I blew the thing up in my canon run.  As for the geth outcome that is one decision where I think the renegade decision is better because rewriting the geth sounds more like brainwashing/indoctrination would rather just be rid of the heretics.

I know for a fact that Cerberus is an enemy in ME3 and they "benefit from that resource."

The Geth are programs/computers/synthetic.  When computer software goes bad, you reinstall.

[Graunt]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...
The Geth are programs/computers/synthetic.  When computer software goes bad, you reinstall.

Tell that to the Quarians.

[KotorEffect3]

DJBare wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...
Actualy you have no idea how the base outcome or the geth decision will play out.  Just because cerberus is the enemy now doesn't necessarily mean the player won't benefit if they preserved the base although I am glad I blew the thing up in my canon run.  As for the geth outcome that is one decision where I think the renegade decision is better because rewriting the geth sounds more like brainwashing/indoctrination would rather just be rid of the heretics.

You should read over your sentence again, the base was saved for who?, who is now the enemy in ME3?, basically a renegade shep gave TIM the weapon and ammo to use against him/her.

Look I am not one to defend this decision but it is conceivable after you lay the smackdown on cerberus you get a hold of some of that technology or intel they recovered from the base.   Just because the enemy has the base now doesn't mean they will have it for the whole game.  Like I said I am not one to defend the decision but it is jumping the gun to  just assume that it will only have negative consequences.

[MartinDN]

I feel like victor frankenstein this thread was not meant to be paragon vs renegade.

Ive just finished the runthrough - apart from that one decision with the rachni queen, renegade felt...oddly liberating i must say, i may not support there actions, but killing the council and "using force to suppress any dissent" was kinda awesome.

[KotorEffect3]

MartinDN wrote...

I feel like victor frankenstein this thread was not meant to be paragon vs renegade.

Ive just finished the runthrough - apart from that one decision with the rachni queen, renegade felt...oddly liberating i must say, i may not support there actions, but killing the council and "using force to suppress any dissent" was kinda awesome.

lol you think the paragon vs renegade stuff in this thread was bad this place will probably explode after ME 3 is released.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Some of us are frustrated because so far in Mass Effect every Renegade sacrifice has been for nothing and every gamble taken by the Paragon has paid. 

That hasn't happened though.

Saving the Council has done nothing so far.
Saving the Rachni Queen has done nothing so far.
Saving the Genophage data has done nothing so far.
Destroying the Base has done nothing so far.
Rewriting the Geth has done nothing so far.

The only decisions that have had any impact so far have been ones to do with characters - namely whether they live or die - and those aren't affected by morality.

Incorrect,

Saving the Council gives you their support and a extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  Interpecies relations are improved and humanity's in a stronger position (Shepard is also treated nicer at stores).  No Renegade choice benefits (if any) are actually demonstrated in the game.

Saving the Rachni Queen gives you their support and an extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  You also found out that the only reason they did what they did was because that group was apparently indoctrinated... no real/inherent reason to kill them.

Saving the Genophage data resulted in no negative outcome, the Renegade alternative has not been shown to be any better.

Destroying the Base gives you complete and total support/praise/respect from your squad (even the ones who felt you should've kept the base only minutes before).  Cererus is your enemy in Mass Effect 3 regardless... making only the Renegade alternative a pointless/lesser-outcome choice on both fronts.

Rewriting the Geth provides no negative consequence and is not lesser than the Renegade alternative...

Yes, so basically Mass Effect choices were about playing a movie and picking which chapters of the movie to watch, not gameplay, (sidenote: Cutscenes and non-interaction are not gameplay mechanics, so they aren't part of what defines games as RPGs, or shooters, or strategy or whatever)Noverias choices were about gameplay; the way you resolved the quests had an effect on what main characters you dealt with, and each character had different needs. And creating the cure at peak 15 resulted in an optional boss fight. I can give many more examples from Mass Effect and other games.

The choices that biowares hype have been making a big song and dance of, the ones you're talking about mainly just affects dialog. Except for the store discounts of course, and did anyone really struggle so much with the game they were scraping the bottom of the money barrel?

[jackyboy666]

Being an **** is the only way forward

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Dogs are smarter than you think.
Humans should really give more respect to animals....


But aside from that, I don't recall either dogs or humans having a history of attacking everyone on sight. Or being exceptionally prone to species-wide indoctrination.

It's always nice to skip Medieval times and the Age of Exploration from debates.

We didn't attack everyone on sight back then. And we aren't suceptible to species-wide mind-control. And we don't bread like ants.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Yuoaman wrote...

I agree that some of the Paragon is really naive and stupid, but a lot of Renegade stuff is just ridiculously cruel - insulting people just for the sake of it.

Insulting people isn't curel - it's un-diplomatic and lacking in tact. But good, honest people do it often when they're in a bad mood. Internet is proof enough that insulkting is alive and healthy in humanity.
Now if you're talkign about a pure renagade needless acts of violence, that's another story.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Some of us are frustrated because so far in Mass Effect every Renegade sacrifice has been for nothing and every gamble taken by the Paragon has paid. 

That hasn't happened though.

Saving the Council has done nothing so far.
Saving the Rachni Queen has done nothing so far.
Saving the Genophage data has done nothing so far.
Destroying the Base has done nothing so far.
Rewriting the Geth has done nothing so far.

The only decisions that have had any impact so far have been ones to do with characters - namely whether they live or die - and those aren't affected by morality.

Incorrect,

Saving the Council gives you their support and a extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  Interpecies relations are improved and humanity's in a stronger position (Shepard is also treated nicer at stores).  No Renegade choice benefits (if any) are actually demonstrated in the game.

Saving the Rachni Queen gives you their support and an extra cameo/audience with them in the sequel.  You also found out that the only reason they did what they did was because that group was apparently indoctrinated... no real/inherent reason to kill them.

Saving the Genophage data resulted in no negative outcome, the Renegade alternative has not been shown to be any better.

Destroying the Base gives you complete and total support/praise/respect from your squad (even the ones who felt you should've kept the base only minutes before).  Cererus is your enemy in Mass Effect 3 regardless... making only the Renegade alternative a pointless/lesser-outcome choice on both fronts.

Rewriting the Geth provides no negative consequence and is not lesser than the Renegade alternative...

Yes, so basically Mass Effect choices were about playing a movie and picking which chapters of the movie to watch, not gameplay, (sidenote: Cutscenes and non-interaction are not gameplay mechanics, so they aren't part of what defines games as RPGs, or shooters, or strategy or whatever)Noverias choices were about gameplay; the way you resolved the quests had an effect on what main characters you dealt with, and each character had different needs. And creating the cure at peak 15 resulted in an optional boss fight. I can give many more examples from Mass Effect and other games.

The choices that biowares hype have been making a big song and dance of, the ones you're talking about mainly just affects dialog. Except for the store discounts of course, and did anyone really struggle so much with the game they were scraping the bottom of the money barrel?

I'm fine with everything but that Paragon Favoritism.  Really deflates the notion of choice when you know which outcomes are going to present the most positive nuggets before you even know what the choice is. 

The design philosophy has apparently changed from their ~"Many choices lie ahead, none of them easy" to "Go blue for best ending, most content, praise, cameos, lives saved etc. and go Red to get something less than that." 

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:43 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Excellent thread.

I had the same problem on my first pure Renegade playthrough. I had a hard time being jerk and making that kind of decisions (especially killing the Rachni queen) but somewhere throughout the game I started liking it and by the time I started ME2,I truly enjoyed being Renegade.
Then,when I started my next pure Paragon playthrough,it kinda seemed weird and lame and I almost always had the urge to choose Renegade response.
But then again,after finishing that,it was hard to be Renegade again.
Weird.

Rojahar wrote...


There should have been a Renegade
interrupt to hug her... and proceed to cop a feel. THAT's being a
Renegade. You're not the hero the galaxy wants... You're the hero the
galaxy deserves.

You're a silent guardian,a watchful protector...a dark knight.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:54 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You are the one that brought in present day real life analogies,  I am simply explaining how your paranoid mentality can be dangerous.  Too bad you can't see that.

No, you are once again taking a thought and carrying it out to a brutal extreme. I never advocated being paranoid.

So killing someone because they might  be dangerous although there is nothing to indicate that they actualy are is not being paranoid?

Since when? Mind you - I save the Rachni queen, but even I see the huge risks involved.
All you got to go on that she's not dangerous is her word. That's it. Nothing else.
Word given under circumstances in which any sensible creature would try to negotiate and lie.
I know she is honest - that's BioWare's stlye. But Shepard doesn't.

If TIM were to come to you and ask you to spare him because he was being mind-controled, would you belive him?

[Lotion Soronarr]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

KBomb wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

So you base your rachni decision on their phyisiological appearence?

Pretty much all I needed. If I had my way, the batarians and vorcha would be in the acid vat with her.

*facepalms*

If you want to get technical.....Any criteria for deciding worth/life death is pretty much arbitrary.
But that is another topic alltogether...