If it were up to me, there'd be an option to kill even more people and be even bigger of a jackass. Too bad I don't work at Bioware. Udina and Council punches abound. And more shoving people out of windows.
Renegades - How do you do it ?
Débuté par
MartinDN
, janv. 22 2012 08:59
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#202
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:42
Someone With Mass
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I prefer to not be a delusional tw@t who must justify every action he makes in order to not make them look like they were just there to satisfy a deranged sadist/kiddie who thinks it's cool to be on the evil side.
#203
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:44
DJStarstryker
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I don't know how anyone can play pure paragon or pure renegade, honestly. Pure paragon is too goody two-shoes, pure renegade is a jerk. Both are too extreme. Real people aren't that extreme. They're more on the gray scale.
I roleplay my character to how he would choose to do things. He does have a renegade tilt, for sure. I see him as a no nonsense, get things done without the BS kind of guy. But he does have a softer side.
For instance, the Collector Base. The renegade option is technically keeping it intact. My Shepard doesn't trust The Illusive Man or Cerberus. He hasn't since ME1, and even being brought back to life in ME2 didn't make him trust them. He decided to destroy it. My Shepard also has the habit of saying the "paragon" options to people he likes, because he sees no need to be a jerk to them.
I think these games are more enjoyable if you figure out what kind of personality you want your Shepard to have, and picking choices appropriately, not paying attention to if they give you renegade or paragon points.
I roleplay my character to how he would choose to do things. He does have a renegade tilt, for sure. I see him as a no nonsense, get things done without the BS kind of guy. But he does have a softer side.
For instance, the Collector Base. The renegade option is technically keeping it intact. My Shepard doesn't trust The Illusive Man or Cerberus. He hasn't since ME1, and even being brought back to life in ME2 didn't make him trust them. He decided to destroy it. My Shepard also has the habit of saying the "paragon" options to people he likes, because he sees no need to be a jerk to them.
I think these games are more enjoyable if you figure out what kind of personality you want your Shepard to have, and picking choices appropriately, not paying attention to if they give you renegade or paragon points.
#204
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:50
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Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
Gotta love how the same old posters, the usual suspects, accuse me of not understanding and even lying and whatnot. Then, I procede to post something like this:
[below]
And those same accusatory inviduals are nowhere to be found, just like that.
I was playing X-COM: UFO Defense.
Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
The one repeating ignorant lies are
the posters who repeatedly make the false claim that "paragon always
wins."
It's not a false claim, it is true. Name one time the Paragon has given up the mission or lives or content or their reputation or loyalty or any kind of reward.
-- Rachni:
does not exist in a bubble as many claim, your decision is acknowledged
in a news report with the reporter saying of the hot labs:
Oh wow, news Reports. I'm so thankful for that. Guess what? Even though we killed the rachni we're still giong to have to fight them in ME3. So killing the queen was pointless.
There is no promise of an ally and no eliminated threat.
Now I'm fine with this on its own as I am any choice turning out in favor of the Paragon, but when this becomes a trend I get annoyed.
can be saved as a renegade, and a paragon player can lose him too.-- Wrex:
The Renegade does not always loose, but the Paragon does always win. The Paragon is winning something here as they do in the romance. Though in this case both are winning something. So you can't use this as an example of Paragon "not winning".
-- Council:
if saved, they basically spend the time in ME2 telling you what an
idiot you are.
At least you get to meet them. You get that little bit of extra content. It isn't much but it is more than I got. All I got was Anderson. What's worse, what I got was the same as somebody who started from scratch and didn't even import a career from ME1.
How can you call that fair?
Hah Yes Reapers... wrote...
And
that's it. That's the big choice and consequence we've seen up to this
point.
No, those are just the only examples you wanted to lift from Genesis. A lot was left out. Let's look at ME2:
On Zaeed's Loyalty Mission the Paragon path grants his loyalty, saves lives, and gets you more money.
Taking Veetor to Cerberus gets you nothing and Veetor is traumatized in the process. Hurray?
I'm sure you won't talk about ME3. I'm sure you'll hide beind Bioware and their lie about the leak not being reflective about the game. Perhaps when the game is released you'll change your tune but I'm not counting on it.
Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
It's as if Shepard is supposed to think, "In some
alternate reality where I do not exist, the freed rachni queen turned
hostile and massacred innocent people! That's how I know I'm right!"
My enjoyment of the game isn't strictly through roleplaying. I also like to enjoy it as a believable universe and the Paragon way always being right and always being easier harms my ability to do that. It makes the universe feel less like sci-fi and more like a cartoon. I can't take it seriously. There are no moral dilemmas, there are no hard choices. Going into ME3, if I play it, I will know ahead of time how each choice will turn out, roughly. Not because of the Leak, but because I know how Bioware does things.
Paragon = Good outcome, happiness, and more content
Renegade = Bad outcome, misery, and less content
#205
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:51
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Someone With Mass wrote...
I prefer to not be a delusional tw@t who must justify every action he makes in order to not make them look like they were just there to satisfy a deranged sadist/kiddie who thinks it's cool to be on the evil side.
Well I hope you get better at that because so far you are quite transparent.
#206
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:53
Jozape
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DJStarstryker wrote...
I think these games are more enjoyable if you figure out what kind of personality you want your Shepard to have, and picking choices appropriately, not paying attention to if they give you renegade or paragon points.
It's that careful attention to my character's personality and actions that make playing a character so difficult though. If I want to kill someone, it's not because I want Shepard to be in straight jacket. It's because I want him/her to want to get the job done ASAP and/or with the highest chances of success(disregarding meta-game information).
#207
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:55
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Well I hope you get better at that because so far you are quite transparent.
It's so nice of you to admit that you feel targeted.
#208
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:58
android654
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ItsFreakinJesus wrote...
If it were up to me, there'd be an option to kill even more people and be even bigger of a jackass. Too bad I don't work at Bioware. Udina and Council punches abound. And more shoving people out of windows.
THIS!
If It were to me, my renegade would be even moreso.
Would've shot Rana while recruiting Okeer/Grunt.
Would've brought Okeer down to fight and leave him in the room with the Mech and Krogan grab Grunt and leave.
Killed Miranda and and given Jacob and the crew a choice about following me or being dumped off at the next planet.
Talk to Legion then either shut him off or shoot him out an airlock.
Use Edi to spy on everyone and feed me intel that I could use to black mail them instead of doing the LM. That way they'd focus like if they were loyal but their status would be the opositte.
Have the opportunity to sell Thane, Miranda, Garrus, Legion, or Samara to The Shadow Broker before LOTSB (Since Liara will never die)
Have the ability to cheat on LI's with other Ship members.
Kill Chackwas on the SM for giving you lip about not saving her sooner.
Leave a crewmember I don't care for on the Collector Base to die as the Normandy pulls away.
Kick Udina in the Chest when he complains about seeing you.
Help Bailey commit some dirty police acts.
I could think of so many! Suffice it to say. Renegade Shepard doesn't go far enough.
Modifié par android654, 23 janvier 2012 - 03:58 .
#209
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:58
Blacklash93
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Most renegade decisions mean you're willing to make great sacrifices to save the galaxy... even when you don't have to.
Or perhaps it's not appropriate to discuss spoilers in a non-spoiler forum?Saphra Deden wrote...
I'm sure you won't talk about ME3. I'm sure you'll hide beind Bioware and their lie about the leak not being reflective about the game. Perhaps when the game is released you'll change your tune but I'm not counting on it.
Modifié par Blacklash93, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:00 .
#210
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 03:59
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Blacklash93 wrote...
Most renegade decisions mean you're willing to make great sacrifices to save the galaxy... even when you don't have to.
When do you not have to?
#211
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:00
Ryzaki
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ItsFreakinJesus wrote...
If it were up to me, there'd be an option to kill even more people and be even bigger of a jackass. Too bad I don't work at Bioware. Udina and Council punches abound. And more shoving people out of windows.
This.
And anyone who tries to threaten Shepard gets a shot in the face if they're not plot important. If they are PI they just get a Shepard pawnch.
#212
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:03
Blacklash93
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Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.Saphra Deden wrote...
Blacklash93 wrote...
Most renegade decisions mean you're willing to make great sacrifices to save the galaxy... even when you don't have to.
When do you not have to?
#213
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:03
mybudgee
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I prefer Shep to punch people often
#214
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:04
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Blacklash93 wrote...
Or perhaps it's not appropriate to discuss spoilers in a non-spoiler forum?
What spoilers? Chris Priestly himself said the Leak is not reflective of the game therefore it doesn't contain any spoilers.
Unless... wait... do you think Chris is a liar? I do.
#215
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:05
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Blacklash93 wrote...
Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.
1.) How do you know it isn't necessary to kill the colonists on Feros?
2.) Don't be so vague
What the other times it wasn't necessary to sacrifice lives?
Don't meta-game.
#216
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:05
KotorEffect3
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Saphra Deden wrote...
KotorEffect3 wrote...
You are now equating the rachni
queen with an animal. Lions are animals who base their actions solely
on instinct. You can't reason with a Lion, you cannot negotiate with a
Lion and you can't reach a compromise with a Lion. If the Lion is a
threat than you try to neutralize that threat in an as humane way as
possible. The rachni queen on the other hand is an intelligent creature
capable of reason as is shown when she is speaking with you through the
asari. So comparing an alien to an animal fails hard.
That
was not the point of the analogy. The point was not to take an idea and
drag it out to a radical extreme. It was also about how to deal with a
threat.
You can't negotiate with the rachni queen. Once you set
her free that's it, she's gone, and you'd better hope she has no violent
plans. You are gambling with war and with the lives of everyone on
Noveria. The rachni are dangerous, more dangerous than you or I. After
all, newborn, naked, unequipped-rachni managed to overrun Peak-15 and
the Cerberus testing facility. They are dangerous beings and the
security precuations in place where there for a reason.
It is
irresponsible, reckless, and extremely dumb to disregard all of that and
just set the queen free. You aren't thinking rationally, you aren't
acting rationally. Instead you are leading with your heart and
endangering lives.
You cannot execute someone because they might do something dangerous down the road. The rachni queen herself has done nothing dangerous. Once again she is innocent. Her offspring went insane because of the circumstances they were in. Like is said in game it is like locking a kid in a closet until he is sixteen. The bottom line is you are executing an innocent based on paranoia and what ifs. And I am the one being irrational?
#217
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:06
android654
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Blacklash93 wrote...
Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.Saphra Deden wrote...
Blacklash93 wrote...
Most renegade decisions mean you're willing to make great sacrifices to save the galaxy... even when you don't have to.
When do you not have to?
Or on Jacob's LM. It was a risk talking to the non feral crew. It would've been safer to shoot everyone there. Maybe even accidentally killing Jacob's dad in the crossfire.
#218
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:08
Someone With Mass
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Blacklash93 wrote...
Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.
1.) How do you know it isn't necessary to kill the colonists on Feros?
How do you know that it was, when you had a pretty non-violent alternative that could very well have worked?
#219
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:09
Blacklash93
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You must live on a farm. How else would you get all the straw for these arguments?Saphra Deden wrote...
What spoilers? Chris Priestly himself said the Leak is not reflective of the game therefore it doesn't contain any spoilers.
#220
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:10
android654
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Someone With Mass wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Blacklash93 wrote...
Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.
1.) How do you know it isn't necessary to kill the colonists on Feros?
How do you know that it was, when you had a pretty non-violent alternative that could very well have worked?
If you have grenades and the knockout gas uprgade. If you're out of grenades? I had to shoot them all, had no option.
#221
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:11
Xilizhra
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You can just punch them.If you have grenades and the knockout gas uprgade. If you're out of grenades? I had to shoot them all, had no option.
#222
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:11
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KotorEffect3 wrote...
You cannot execute someone because they might do something dangerous down the road.
Actually you can, you are a Spectre after all.
You have the wrong idea here so let me set you straight.
It isn't executing somebody who might do something some day.
You are killing somebody who IS dangerous and COULD endanger others.
Think of the rachni queen as a desperate civilian trying to flee a quarantine zone. Maybe they are infected, maybe they aren't. However the safe thing to do is to shoot them to stop them from escaping and spreading the plague.
It has nothing to do with "punishment".
#223
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:12
KotorEffect3
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Someone With Mass wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Blacklash93 wrote...
Killing the colonists on Feros. Multiple situations where you would sacrifice lives to get the job done even when you're perfectly capable doing it without such needless offerings.
1.) How do you know it isn't necessary to kill the colonists on Feros?
How do you know that it was, when you had a pretty non-violent alternative that could very well have worked?
Killing the colonists was a pretty douche when you already have an alternative method on hand in the gas granades. You still neutralize the colonists. Honestly only a short sighted hyper impatient Shepard would kill the colonists.
#224
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:14
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Someone With Mass wrote...
How do you know that it was, when you had a pretty non-violent alternative that could very well have worked?
It could have worked or it could have failed spectacularly. These grenades are improvised weapons created by people with no known military expertise.
The toxin may work or it might not. Even if it does work you don't know how effective it will be or how long it will last.
Suppose that this happens: you use the knockout gas and everything seems fine. The colonists are paralyzed/sleeping and so you head down to the Thorian. Then when you are down there the effect begins to wear off and the colonists attack you from behind while you are fighting off the Creepers.
For all Shepard knows this could have happened. He takes out the colonists and then once he's behind enemy lines it wears off and they surround him. Shepard only has a three man time.
Killing the colonists is safer. Not to mention the speculation about them having any kind of infection or something.
Feros is one of the weaker Renegade decisions, but it is still not hard to justify with a little roleplaying.
#225
Posté 23 janvier 2012 - 04:14
android654
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Xilizhra wrote...
You can just punch them.If you have grenades and the knockout gas uprgade. If you're out of grenades? I had to shoot them all, had no option.
And get shot to ribbons while dodging their guns and those thorian zombies at the same time? Too much of a risk, just easier to kill them. They are shooting at me after all.
Modifié par android654, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:14 .
