125 réponses à ce sujet

[whykikyouwhy]

I suppose I make parallels between DA and PnP rpgs in that while I play a unique character, and feel that the character is mine, that character is at the mercy of the world, or the DM. If that character gets sucked up into some abyss, then sadly, that is what happens, and I hope that while I got to plot out her actions, I gave her a good run and made some solid decisions. Is that meddling? Or is that simply the mechanics that dictate that I am not the god controlling that game world?

People have speculated about all areas of DA2, and the fates of the Warden and Hawke arise as topics in specific threads and in ones not related to that subject. Maybe we're not looking at the same threads, but to me, it seems that there is interest.

I gave the Empire Strikes Back example because back in 1980, no one knew if Han would return in the next film beyond any state other than a motionless block of matter. So it's a typical cliffhanger in that you don't know the outcome, or if the hero will return. While the Warden and Hawke may not come back as playable characters, they may yet appear in some cameo that explains their absence, ties up loose ends, and solidifies the story. It might not be in the manner that everyone wants - there's no way to make every individual player happy in that regard, but it may make sense to the story as a whole. I don't think they are dead at this juncture, and I don't know that they are in peril, so their state of "vanished" leaves a whole heck of a lot more hope that frozen stasis.

But, that's just all my opinion.

[esper]

I will honestly be angry with bioware if they do something like Flemeth kidnaps them all. My Hawke and warden simply cannot be in the same room and I have no interest in Marric. Just let them vanish into the sunset and don't force them into a setting they wouldn't be in.
My Hawke is who knows where as long as they stays by their Li, and my Warden in antiva (fix that bug, btw. bioware)
It is plausible that neither wants to be found by a pro-chantry group. Hawke because of the conflict they was a part of and because the chantry seemingly blamed Hawke before talking to Varric so a Hawke on either side would want to be disappear, and the Warden is a warden and thus forced to be neutral and sometimes the easist way to be neutral is to not be found, and if Leliana is the Li for the warden, we can always pretend that she is lying all though she might have moved in a not so lucky way generelly for it to work plausiblely.

[Corker]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I suppose I make parallels between DA and PnP rpgs in that while I play a unique character, and feel that the character is mine, that character is at the mercy of the world, or the DM.

I make similar parallels, but from the other side of the table.  As a GM, I've no problem going through source material and tossing out chunks of it, rewriting bits, and inserting my own ideas.

I don't care what DA2 says about the Warden.  I reject its reality and substitute my own.

I mean, heck... my favorite DA2 ending is the one where mage!Hawke, corrupted by the thin Veil and a desire for power, uses the Midnight Grimoire to summon Xebenkeck and serve as its abominable host, terrorizing Kirkwall and beginning a zombie apocalypse that puts Redcliffe's to shame.  It doesn't bother me too much that I can't actually get that ending in the game.

[whykikyouwhy]

@Corker - Your head canon is a mighty force to be reckoned with.

[jlb524]

Ericander77 wrote...

 At the end of DA2, it is revealed that Hawke is "gone, just like the warden".



What do you think happened to them?

Dead.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

esper wrote...

I will honestly be angry with bioware if they do something like Flemeth kidnaps them all. My Hawke and warden simply cannot be in the same room and I have no interest in Marric. Just let them vanish into the sunset and don't force them into a setting they wouldn't be in.
My Hawke is who knows where as long as they stays by their Li, and my Warden in antiva (fix that bug, btw. bioware)
It is plausible that neither wants to be found by a pro-chantry group. Hawke because of the conflict they was a part of and because the chantry seemingly blamed Hawke before talking to Varric so a Hawke on either side would want to be disappear, and the Warden is a warden and thus forced to be neutral and sometimes the easist way to be neutral is to not be found, and if Leliana is the Li for the warden, we can always pretend that she is lying all though she might have moved in a not so lucky way generelly for it to work plausiblely.

I agree with you, no matter what flemeth is hawke and the warden are experienced fighters who just about seen everything and wont be so easy to kidnaps. I always entertained the idea that the warden would have, (if he didn't follow morrigan which my canon didn't) would have been searching for a cure for the taint possible having early stages of the Calling and does not want the LI to know, and/or just doesn't to be a hero anymore and just wants a quite life.

[Wulfram]

There's a big difference between not knowing the outcome and not knowing the situation at all. If they told us that the Warden had been kidnapped by the Qunari, or had vanished investigating the ancient Thaig, or was last seen getting extremely drunk at a particularly good party in Orlais, that would be better. At least there would be a starting place for some speculation.

It still wouldn't be good, because they're my character so I shouldn't be in the dark about what's happening to them - at least, no more in the dark than they themselves are. And also because if you're going to screw up my character's happy ending, then there should be a decent pay off, and there won't be a decent pay off if they're not playable.

Also, bringing back my characters in an unplayable cameo is a truly horrible idea. It would be a good way of guaranteeing that I'll never touch that product ever.

[Fast Jimmy]

Corker wrote...

I mean, heck... my favorite DA2 ending is the one where mage!Hawke, corrupted by the thin Veil and a desire for power, uses the Midnight Grimoire to summon Xebenkeck and serve as its abominable host, terrorizing Kirkwall and beginning a zombie apocalypse that puts Redcliffe's to shame.  It doesn't bother me too much that I can't actually get that ending in the game.

If this was an ACTUAL ending to DA2? It would be one of my favorite games of all time.

[ThatGamerWithSouvlaki285]

Wulfram wrote...

It still wouldn't be good, because they're my character so I shouldn't be in the dark about what's happening to them - at least, no more in the dark than they themselves are. And also because if you're going to screw up my character's happy ending, then there should be a decent pay off, and there won't be a decent pay off if they're not playable.

I think bioware got themselves a no win situation here. By having both the warden and hawke dispear without a trace at such a crucial part of the story makes us believe that they may have something to do with it and so have a possible appearence in DA3. However since bioware almost certainly gonna make a new PC for DA3, it will be difficult to give a suitable role to both heroes that satisfies everyone and neither can they set up a canon like they did with The old republic for the same reason.

[Patchwork]

TOR is partly the reason why I'd prefer Hawke and the warden to being killed off-screen, only to be mentioned in passing and detailed codex entries. The decisions they made influencing the world as a lasting legacy rather than shoehorned cameos. I would hate an official Bioware version of the PC stomping all over my import/game/head canon.

[BioFan (Official)]

Corker wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I suppose I make parallels between DA and PnP rpgs in that while I play a unique character, and feel that the character is mine, that character is at the mercy of the world, or the DM.

I make similar parallels, but from the other side of the table.  As a GM, I've no problem going through source material and tossing out chunks of it, rewriting bits, and inserting my own ideas.

I don't care what DA2 says about the Warden.  I reject its reality and substitute my own.

I mean, heck... my favorite DA2 ending is the one where mage!Hawke, corrupted by the thin Veil and a desire for power, uses the Midnight Grimoire to summon Xebenkeck and serve as its abominable host, terrorizing Kirkwall and beginning a zombie apocalypse that puts Redcliffe's to shame.  It doesn't bother me too much that I can't actually get that ending in the game.

I DO STUFF LIKE THAT ALL THE TIME!!!


Lets just start by saying there were like 8 Hawke children... (counting all my hawkes)

[BioFan (Official)]

steph285 wrote...

esper wrote...

I will honestly be angry with bioware if they do something like Flemeth kidnaps them all. My Hawke and warden simply cannot be in the same room and I have no interest in Marric. Just let them vanish into the sunset and don't force them into a setting they wouldn't be in.
My Hawke is who knows where as long as they stays by their Li, and my Warden in antiva (fix that bug, btw. bioware)
It is plausible that neither wants to be found by a pro-chantry group. Hawke because of the conflict they was a part of and because the chantry seemingly blamed Hawke before talking to Varric so a Hawke on either side would want to be disappear, and the Warden is a warden and thus forced to be neutral and sometimes the easist way to be neutral is to not be found, and if Leliana is the Li for the warden, we can always pretend that she is lying all though she might have moved in a not so lucky way generelly for it to work plausiblely.

I agree with you, no matter what flemeth is hawke and the warden are experienced fighters who just about seen everything and wont be so easy to kidnaps. I always entertained the idea that the warden would have, (if he didn't follow morrigan which my canon didn't) would have been searching for a cure for the taint possible having early stages of the Calling and does not want the LI to know, and/or just doesn't to be a hero anymore and just wants a quite life.

Alistair says they have about 30 years to live before the calling, so our warden has about a good 19-20 years in him/her.  (since DA2 ends 10 years after the blight)

[ladyluck278]

I also think maybe Flemeth is involved in both the "disappearances". Another theory is this...Even tho I killed the Architect in all but one of my adventures in Awakening I think maybe that story line isn't totally dead yet. What ever happened to Valennas sister? I keep thinking that there is more to this than meets the eye.Maybe he is connected to Flemeth in some way too.

[HiroVoid]

Everything in Dragon Age is because of Flemeth.

[SkittlesKat96]

I think the idea of Flemeth being involved with their disappearances is a bit weird but its plausible.

Flemeth gave aid to Maric, the Warden and Hawke and they all ended up disappearing.

Maric is either:

-In Orlais for some reason (possibly as a captive, or maybe he has integrated into Orlesian society like Flemeth loosely hinted in the novels)

-Dead (and the developers have confirmed this to be true but I'm still not 100% sure.)

-Some other reason / Flemeth's intervention.

The Warden:

-Went with Morrigan.

-Flemeth's intervention.

-Other/player's choice (although I kind of doubt that, its not players choice/idea that your character has to vanish. Unless maybe he HAD to vanish but the player is allowed to think up/decide where they think the Warden went to. Still doubt that one though.

Hawke:

-Hiding outside of Kirkwall and maybe in another city or place in the Free Marshes. The ending of DA 2 implies this, Hawke only really vanished in the sense that all his companions left him. I think its possible Varric didn't tell the full truth of what happened to Hawke but from the sounds of it Varric was serious and genuine about helping Cassandra at the end so whatever it is it has to be big.

The reason he is hiding out would probably be because he is hiding from his enemies, it wouldn't be rational to stay in Kirkwall even if he sided with the Templars and had them at his command. And this doesn't imply Hawke won't come back to join the war (but I think that would have to be at player choice.)

-Other reason / player choice / Flemeth intervention.

EDIT: Oh yeah and the Warden could have also died at the end of DA:O. Speaking of which if the Grey Warden died does Cassandra still have the same lines? Maybe she was talking about the Orlesian warden?

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 24 janvier 2012 - 05:31 .

[Macropodmum]

 What's to say Flemeth didn't convince both the warden and Hawke to chase down Morrigan and bring back the child?  I cannot bring myself to believe that Flemeth's intentions are evil even if she does have something to do with their dissapearances 

[Jorina Leto]

Noone knows what happened to The Warden and Hawke. The games are obviously written in Chris Carter Style.

[esper]

Macropodmum wrote...

 What's to say Flemeth didn't convince both the warden and Hawke to chase down Morrigan and bring back the child?  I cannot bring myself to believe that Flemeth's intentions are evil even if she does have something to do with their dissapearances 

Because my Hawke would tell Flemeth to take a hike, she has more important busniness and my warden was goof friends with Morrigan and attempted to kill Flemeth.

It is far better for me if they only exist off-screen and are mentioned as the legend they have evolved into for the rest of their world.

[Fast Jimmy]

esper wrote...

It is far better for me if they only exist off-screen and are mentioned as the legend they have evolved into for the rest of their world.

Aye! Kills darkspawn by the hundreds. And if my WARDEN were here, he'd consume the Templars with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

[Huntress]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Flemeth and the Eluvians seem to be what connects the Warden and Hawke.

Though I have no clue what the Warden does if he doesn't go through the Eluvian. Probably gets Warden-napped through another one.

But it's my belief that Hawke will vanish through an Eluvian. Not Merrill's though. It's either broken or not working and abandoned.

If the warden doesn't go through the mirror Then the warden dissapears too! And alone it seems, one of my human mages have Leliana as li and ... well you know what happen.. it totally sux but, it could be the warden and hawke are with Flemeth doing something for her or traped in a capsule and hidden away for the good of humanity. :lol:

Not everyone have morrigan with a child some players killed Alistair/warden or Loghain* (* My case)

Modifié par Huntress, 24 janvier 2012 - 04:22 .

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Flemeth and the Eluvians seem to be what connects the Warden and Hawke.

Though I have no clue what the Warden does if he doesn't go through the Eluvian. Probably gets Warden-napped through another one.

But it's my belief that Hawke will vanish through an Eluvian. Not Merrill's though. It's either broken or not working and abandoned.

If The Warden didn't enter the Eluvian with Morrigan, I would imagine The Warden continues being the Paragon of Orzammar, the Bann of the Alienage, the Teyrn of Gwaren, or the Arl of Amaranthine until another crisis arises that demanded his (or her) presence (i.e. the possible reason that both the Hero of Ferelden and the Champion of Kirkwall have disappeared). Perhaps you're correct about the ancient Eluvians holding the key to the mystery behind their mutual disappearance. I'd imagine that if The Warden went with Morrigan and committed the dark ritual, however, he might be supporting her Plan, which may be tied with the destiny of his son - the Old God Baby.

I could imagine that Merrill and a romanced Hawke might investigate the Eluvian at the Dragonborn Wastes, especially since another member of the Dalish would have witnessed The Warden enter it with Morrigan (if The Warden romanced Morrigan). Merrill went through the lore and extrapolated information from the shard, so she might know how to activate a functional and untainted Eluvian. Perhaps, while Morrigan and The Warden she romanced are planning to bring change to Thedas, Merrill and a romanced Hawke are discovering the secrets of the Eluvian.

[Gervaise]

It may be we never hear of them again but I'm guessing that since both are specifically mentioned as disappearing and Lelianna comments it is no coincidence, I would imagine that some part of DA3 will involve an ongoing quest to discover what happened to them. At the very least, in the course of the story the protagonist will stumble across references to either or both. If Bioware wanted them just to fade away and be forgotten why such a specific reference to them at the end of DA2 that seems to link them together?

[esper]

For me I don't want my two main characters to be linked together and I personally think it was a foolish, foolish move on biowares part. Espicially since the warden can be dead and thus very logically can't be found alive. I do not want my Hawke and warden to be the same place in Thedas. It would be so unfitting for them. And they are not forgotten if they fade into legends. The only thing I could forgive was for them to cameo besides their Li, but that is hard for wardens that have Leliana as an Li since she is now politically involved, but never made it clear to the warden how politcally involved she was (thus some would perhaps feel it a violation of their character if they had to go from accepting Lelianas faith to be violently pro-chantry espcially if someone romanced her with a mage or dalish or dwarf). I would rather not meet them at all than having them violate the personalities of Hawke and the warden.

[Gervaise]

I meant fade away and be forgotten by the players in terms of expecting them to have a role. Obviously in the Dragon Age world they will live on as legends, the Warden because of their role in stopping the 5th Blight and Hawke because Varric will ensure that is the case, plus their exploits against the Arishok had given them hero status even as far away as Tevinter.

It is a while since I played through to the end of Awakenings but I am sure there was some mention of the Warden mysteriously disappearing some time after the events of that DLC but I'm not sure if that was every Warden or just a specific one. May be I'll go back and replay the ends just to check on that one. At the time I just assumed it meant some considerable time in the future and they had gone on their calling, which most people outside the wardens wouldn't know about so it would appear to them like he had just up and gone for no apparent reason.

It made sense to me that a mage Hawke or a Hawke who supported the mages would have covered their tracks at the end of DA2, although you would imagine such a high profile mage turning up somewhere along the way during the mage/templar conflict. It was slightly harder to understand why a non-mage Hawke who supported the templars would have vacated the Vicount post after only two years. I suppose kidnapping or Antivan Crows spring to mind, or a combination of both.

Still the fact that it is left open like that, with no explanation given, and yet Varric is sure that they are not dead, points to some form of resolution of the story in the future. Unless this comes in the form of a DLC between now and the release of DA3, there has to more to it.