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[Fox In The Box]

Rifneno wrote...


Wha? Are you sure? O_o I know I remember this description of there being light but with no apparent source, no day or night... I could've sworn that was about the Fade in Dragon Age. Damn, now it's going to be bothering me what fantasy writing's magic realm I read that about.

No need to be bothered! You have the right one, actually. In Anders' short story, that's how Justice/Anders describes the Fade:

"The word comes back to me. The Fade. I am a mage. I've spent time in the place I remember. It is a land of mist, of dreams. And I'm right; the light there is different, emanating from the ground, the walls, not a single pinpoint source. But I've never been more than a visitor there. Why does it suddenly feel like home?"

I haven't read Asunder yet, so perhaps the Fade is described differently there?

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 03 février 2012 - 09:25 .

[TEWR]

I could swear there was a sun in Broken Circle if you looked up.

[Fox In The Box]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I could swear there was a sun in Broken Circle if you looked up.

Indeed there is. Also, in the Calling, the sky described as a vast sea of blackness, with swirling ribbons of white crossing it and islands floating overhead. Which, aside from the islands, does not much resemble what we see in-game.

Modifié par Fox In The Box, 03 février 2012 - 11:40 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And that speculation is wrong given that Tamlen flat out says he's seeing an underground city on the other side of the Eluvian. To assume he's seeing the Black City is sheer folly, given that the Black City isn't underground. It's floating.

Okay, let's review. An elf that's probably never seen a real city in his life is looking into a teleportation device that we don't have the slightest idea the workings of. The theory is that he's seeing a place that no one knows anything about, that exists in a world that's constantly changing on the whims of every spirit and demon that calls it home. And you want to flatly dismiss it because he said it's underground? You'll have to excuse me if I scoff at that. Here's a thought, maybe he assumed it was underground because there's no frickin' sun.

I once had a really wild theory about the Black City and the underground. I'm sure it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Gervaise]

Tamlen says he thinks the city is underground because it looks dark, presumably with no obvious sky, moon, stars, etc. He could have been looking at an area of the Fade - he wouldn't know this since he is not familiar with the Fade, he could have been looking at an actual underground city, Arlathan, which by now is probably crawling with darkspawn seeing as they control the Deep Roads, or it could be somewhere else entirely. What is also says is that something/someone on the other side of the mirror senses his presence, at which point there is a bang. I've never been sure whether what he saw was merely a darkspawn or something else entirely.

Duncan defintely sensed a corruption in the mirror and that is why he destroyed it. I thought the Morrigan's eluvian was totally different to the Dalish origin one - it was after all found in the Dragonbone wastes whereas the other was in the Brecilian Forest or Hinterlands. Eluvians were communication devices and possibly doorways but that doesn't mean they all led to the same place or showed the same things.

[TheRevanchist]

Rifneno wrote...
No, they just don't care. There's no reason whatsoever that they had to use Anders and Justice, who could both easily die in Awakening, for the part they played in DA2. They could've made a new character to fit that role, but they disregarded player choices and use them anyway. Very likely ditto for Leliana. I seriously doubt there's any real reason that the seeker in DA2 just had to be the same bard that may have traveled with the Warden. Lots of epilogues were taken back under the guise of "epilogues are just rumors." No they're not. If they were, then some epilogue slides wouldn't have specifically stated that they were rumors. Which they did. It's just plain a retcon, and the writers don't have the guts to admit it. And then of course there's the choices in DA2 which ended up not to be real choices at all.

I like this human, he understands!

Also...if anyone REALLY thinks Gaider is talking about the Orlisan Warden...who the hell are you trying to fool? What does the Orlisan Warden do to earn the attention of the half the world like Hawke? He saves a small Arling from a roaving war band of Darkspawn...and thats it. He does not roflstomp an Archdemon agaisnt insurmountable odds. He does not unite a nation and it's dwarven neighbors to lead what is basiclly a Samurai bonzai charge in a final attempt to gain victory. He does not determine who claims the throne of a nation, which can shape how the world evolves for years to come. The Orlisan Warden...for all intents and purposes, does nothing to warrent "disappearing without a trace" it's a very obvious play of words to avoid saying "F you sacrifice ppl!" 

Also...I think he DID see Arlathan in the mirror...and I think that the Black City is the Fades mirror image of it. I think Arlathan is wear the Taint began during the Tevinters war with Arlathan.

[RazorrX]

"Gone, just like the warden" means "gone".
Definition of gone:
1. Being away from a place; absent or having departed.
2. Past; bygone.
3. Advanced beyond hope or recall.
4. Dying or dead.
5. Ruined; lost: a gone cause.
6. Carried away; absorbed.
7. Used up; exhausted.

If you did the sacrifice then you are "gone". You offer no help for the current situation. If you did the dark ritual or allowed someone else to die then you left at a certain point and are "gone". Thus the term "gone" does not invalidate any option at this time. Hawke is "gone" as he left Kirkwall after the revolt. Thus neither Hawke nor The Warden offer the chantry any help in what is to come.

The Corrupted Mirror was viewing the deep roads when the Archdemon was still there, thus the taint in the mirror. Duncan shattered the mirror and thus broke that connection/removed the taint. Merrill had a piece of that now inactive and thus untainted mirror. What she needed to cleanse was where it would be looking when it was reactivated, something the demon was supposedly going to teach her.

[TheRevanchist]

Except gone hardly means the same when Leliana says "This cannot be a coincidence" Yes...the warden dying saving the world is totaly not a coincidence with Hawke just vanishing for no reason.

[RazorrX]

There are many ways to look at that conversation that does not invalidate ANY choice you made in the game. You can jump to whatever conclusions you want, but the fact is that it was meant to mean only one thing : There will be a new protagonist in the next game.

If you did the sacrifice then they are talking about the Warden Commander, the guy who is the first Warden to be given an Arling. That guy left for parts unknown. IF you did not die, then you went away to parts unknown and are also "gone". Hawke fled Kirkwall and is "gone".

The whole "This cannot be a coincidence" can simply mean that the Maker has removed them from the playing field in order to make the chantry work for a solution. Remember Leliana is a drama queen.

None of those options invalidate any choice you made in any playthrough.

[HolyAvenger]

One thing I hate about that line is that Leliana said it. Now my Warden would probably have left his sexy Orlesian girlfriend a note before disappearing. Unless she does know where he and is lying, or he was kidnapped outta nowhere (not very badass).

[Rifneno]

RazorrX wrote...

If you did the sacrifice then they are talking about the Warden Commander, the guy who is the first Warden to be given an Arling. That guy left for parts unknown. IF you did not die, then you went away to parts unknown and are also "gone". Hawke fled Kirkwall and is "gone".  

As Kylecouch said, that's a ****** poor excuse.  The WC's deeds aren't significant enough to have been the other person they were looking for.  To the rest of the world, it was really nothing but a big darkspawn raid.  In which the WC had to protect a fortress and a city.  One was a complete loss, and the other was the other barely hung on.  (Yes, I know you can "kind of" save the fort with all the upgrades)  Comparing that to the Warden's accomplishments...  a lot of people don't believe that the Fifth Blight was even a blight because they don't believe it was even possible that they took down an archdemon so quickly and (comparatively) easy.

Also, you call us jumping to conclusions, I call you grasping at straws.  Also, the writers have said they aren't going to confirm the existence of the Maker one way or the other.  He'll always be an open question.  So he didn't poof anyone out of Thedas to make the Chantry "work for it."

[TheRevanchist]

Rifneno wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

If you did the sacrifice then they are talking about the Warden Commander, the guy who is the first Warden to be given an Arling. That guy left for parts unknown. IF you did not die, then you went away to parts unknown and are also "gone". Hawke fled Kirkwall and is "gone".  

As Kylecouch said, that's a ****** poor excuse.  The WC's deeds aren't significant enough to have been the other person they were looking for.  To the rest of the world, it was really nothing but a big darkspawn raid.  In which the WC had to protect a fortress and a city.  One was a complete loss, and the other was the other barely hung on.  (Yes, I know you can "kind of" save the fort with all the upgrades)  Comparing that to the Warden's accomplishments...  a lot of people don't believe that the Fifth Blight was even a blight because they don't believe it was even possible that they took down an archdemon so quickly and (comparatively) easy.

Also, you call us jumping to conclusions, I call you grasping at straws.  Also, the writers have said they aren't going to confirm the existence of the Maker one way or the other.  He'll always be an open question.  So he didn't poof anyone out of Thedas to make the Chantry "work for it."

Exactly...the unholy amount of Ret-cons in this IP after only the second game has really shattered my confidence in it. The overall quality has also become unbelievably poor. IMO all of the characters except Varric were TERRIBLE...Aveline was awsome, but butchered my soul emotionaly because most fans cant get over their obsession with elven romances, ****y Rogues and mages that basiclly hate the world. I won't even go into how ridiculous that Felica Day bulls*** was for that DLC and Webseries. DA went from bad ass Fantasy IP to a laughing stock after just 2 games...it's kinda pathetic imo.  

[jackofalltrades456]

Ok, there’ve been hundreds of posts like these since DA3 was announced. I think Bioware has already confirmed that the Warden will not be playable for the new Dragon Age and would mostly like a cameo appearance in the form of “Great job main character! You can do it. I believe in your decision to side with the Mage/Templars against “insert random ancient evil here”. I romanced Leliana/Zevarn/Morrigan/Alistair, but we’ll never see each other again and they’ll only make dubious comments about it. I’m going to vanish now and never be seen again, or have an ogre kill me and ****** on my corpse. LOL BYE NOW!”

The Warden’s story is far from finished and I  would love for the chance to see my Warden playable again. Maybe they can do a dlc with a playable masked Warden in Dragon Age 3, or maybe even in 2 if we’re lucky. It would be nice to conclude my romance with Zevarn and Leilana on my two characters. I feel they really didn’t receive proper ending to their romance like with Alistair and Morrigan.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 15 février 2012 - 03:37 .

[HeroxMatt]

A playable Warden DLC sounds pretty cool.

[Windninja47]

I'd be fine if we never saw the warden again. I really liked Dragon Age Origins and really liked my warden but I also understand that many different things could have happened to the warden- He could be dead, with Sten, having fun-times with Morrigan whatever. But with Hawke, his future is far more vague so I think he should return in some form.

[Dr. wonderful]

simfamSP wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

If you did the sacrifice then they are talking about the Warden Commander, the guy who is the first Warden to be given an Arling. That guy left for parts unknown. IF you did not die, then you went away to parts unknown and are also "gone". Hawke fled Kirkwall and is "gone".  

As Kylecouch said, that's a ****** poor excuse.  The WC's deeds aren't significant enough to have been the other person they were looking for.  To the rest of the world, it was really nothing but a big darkspawn raid.  In which the WC had to protect a fortress and a city.  One was a complete loss, and the other was the other barely hung on.  (Yes, I know you can "kind of" save the fort with all the upgrades)  Comparing that to the Warden's accomplishments...  a lot of people don't believe that the Fifth Blight was even a blight because they don't believe it was even possible that they took down an archdemon so quickly and (comparatively) easy.

Also, you call us jumping to conclusions, I call you grasping at straws.  Also, the writers have said they aren't going to confirm the existence of the Maker one way or the other.  He'll always be an open question.  So he didn't poof anyone out of Thedas to make the Chantry "work for it."

Exactly...the unholy amount of Ret-cons in this IP after only the second game has really shattered my confidence in it. The overall quality has also become unbelievably poor. IMO all of the characters except Varric were TERRIBLE...Aveline was awsome, but butchered my soul emotionaly because most fans cant get over their obsession with elven romances, ****y Rogues and mages that basiclly hate the world. I won't even go into how ridiculous that Felica Day bulls*** was for that DLC and Webseries. DA went from bad ass Fantasy IP to a laughing stock after just 2 games...it's kinda pathetic imo.  

Wow...just wow...

"What do you call this act?"
*Claps hands together and spread arms*
"THE INTERNET!"

[EmperorSahlertz]

What retcons exactly? And which of your choices from DA:O are ignored? I can't think of a single choice we made in DA:O that is ignored in DA2. There were a few epilogue slides which were disregarded in particular cases, but that is it. And those are hardly retcons, since they were very case specific.

[phimseto]

For all my problems with Dragon Age 2, the idea of my DAO and DA2 teaming up like Batman and Superman got me pretty excited about the possibilities for DA3.

[Megaton_Hope]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

What retcons exactly? And which of your choices from DA:O are ignored? I can't think of a single choice we made in DA:O that is ignored in DA2. There were a few epilogue slides which were disregarded in particular cases, but that is it. And those are hardly retcons, since they were very case specific.

Well, some characters will inexplicably come back from the dead.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Oh, it's going somewhere, a full party is four so we have Warden and Hawke for sure, possibly Flemeth, likely, so the protagonist from DA3 vanishes like the others, then DA4 could be the reveal in which we see and play that party.

I'm sure they are all around, someplace and might just be back someday. Perhaps Flemeth is teaching them how to claim new bodies as she does? They might be raising their next incarnations.

[Sajuro]

Ericander77 wrote...

 At the end of DA2, it is revealed that Hawke is "gone, just like the warden".



What do you think happened to them?

They became War Assets for ME3