340 réponses à ce sujet

[Scary Shepard]

scyphozoa wrote...

EDIT - No, I don't consider promotional DLC to be "additional." ALL content is part of the FULL BODY OF WORK.

Anything less than full body of work is insufficient, IMO.

I disagree. As I've stated, there is no end of products out there for which companies market additional add-ons, upgrades, attachments e.t.c, the car metaphor I used previously is an example, but the same principle can be applied to many things, kitchen appliances, computers, TVs and so on. The core product which the consumer buys is still functional, but can be enhanced or customised with additional products the consumer can buy if they see fit.

As far as I'm concerned, the same principle applies. A game is still playable without DLC- if a consumer chooses to buy it so as to enhance it, it's their decision.

I don't begrudge game companies for doing it since most games (with the notable exception of subscribed MMOs) only generate a developer income at the point of purchase. Many other consumer products can generate its manufacturer money in other ways after a sale- warranties, repairs, servicing and so on. A DVD requires none of these things. So if the company pushes for more money through other methods, I have no problem with that.

[chengthao]

Scary Shepard wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Thing about game development is that it's like a democracy. The developers and publishers are a crafty lot of people who slowly try to profit in greater amounts off of the consumer.

Heaven forbid a company should try and improve their profit margins. What has this world come to?

yes and their increased profits comes at the expense of the cunsumers, we, the consumers, have to stand up against them b/c if you defend or support them then they will sontinue their poor business practices, why not sell half a game at $60+ and then make us pay another $10 for the other half? Lets just look at M$ and Apple, they outsource all their manufacturing jobs to China, paying 12yo .31 cents an hour, making them work 70+hr weeks w/o overtime and they save a whooping 23% and "pass" those savings onto us

http://blog.sfgate.c...cost-of-iphone/

you'd think near slave labour would save us more money, but it doesn't, this is what happens when ppl "support" companyies' bad business practices and say "oh its only for profit"

http://www.complex.c...en-mass-suicide

Modifié par chengthao, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[nelly21]

Scary Shepard wrote...

I disagree. As I've stated, there is no end of products out there for which companies market additional add-ons, upgrades, attachments e.t.c, the car metaphor I used previously is an example, but the same principle can be applied to many things, kitchen appliances, computers, TVs and so on. The core product which the consumer buys is still functional, but can be enhanced or customised with additional products the consumer can buy if they see fit.

As far as I'm concerned, the same principle applies. A game is still playable without DLC- if a consumer chooses to buy it so as to enhance it, it's their decision.

I don't begrudge game companies for doing it since most games (with the notable exception of subscribed MMOs) only generate a developer income at the point of purchase. Many other consumer products can generate its manufacturer money in other ways after a sale- warranties, repairs, servicing and so on. A DVD requires none of these things. So if the company pushes for more money through other methods, I have no problem with that.

Extremely well said.

[chengthao]

Scary Shepard wrote...

I disagree. As I've stated, there is no end of products out there for which companies market additional add-ons, upgrades, attachments e.t.c, the car metaphor I used previously is an example, but the same principle can be applied to many things, kitchen appliances, computers, TVs and so on. The core product which the consumer buys is still functional, but can be enhanced or customised with additional products the consumer can buy if they see fit.

As far as I'm concerned, the same principle applies. A game is still playable without DLC- if a consumer chooses to buy it so as to enhance it, it's their decision.

I don't begrudge game companies for doing it since most games (with the notable exception of subscribed MMOs) only generate a developer income at the point of purchase. Many other consumer products can generate its manufacturer money in other ways after a sale- warranties, repairs, servicing and so on. A DVD requires none of these things. So if the company pushes for more money through other methods, I have no problem with that.

i have nothing against post-release DLC b/c i believe the Devs deserved to be paid for their hard work, but pre-release DLC, seems like that should already be in-game content, its like they took out some weapons and armor and decided to sell it as DLC b/c they knew enough ppl would buy it, b/c they knew that ppl would defend their poor business practice, that's my only real beef with this

Modifié par chengthao, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[Scary Shepard]

chengthao wrote...

yes and their increased profits comes at the expense of the cunsumers, we, the consumers, have to stand up against them b/c if you defend or support them then they will sontinue their poor business practices, why not sell half a game at $60+ and then make us pay another $10 for the other half? Lets just look at M$ and Apple, they outsource all their manufacturing jobs to China, paying 12yo .31 cents an hour, making them work 70+hr weeks w/o overtime and they save a whooping 21% and "pass" those savings onto us, you'd think near slave labour would save us more money, but it doesn't, this is what happens when ppl "support" companyies' bad business practices and say "oh its only for profit"

You are taking my statement that DLC is a fair means my which developers pursue larger profits, and extrapolating that to say I advocate slave labour. This is a fallacy.

scyphozoa wrote...

I do not mind buying DLC, and I do not
expect DLC to be free. I do object to having to buy redundant copies of a
game in order to obtain promotional DLC.  All DLC should be sold
directly to customers, not through promotions that require customers to
buy stuff they don't otherwise want in order to obtain game content.

A very fair point. The exclusivity of some DLC is unfortunately a way by which its marketed- gamers are always prone to "one upmanship" in that they want to have more rare/exclusive items than the next guy.

Modifié par Scary Shepard, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:39 .

[ODST 5723]

chengthao wrote...

Ecto-Plasmic Effect wrote...

You do realize the money is for the figurines right? The DLC is just a bonus. But, I don't think it's fair people get "powerful new weapons and new characters" just for buying a stupid doll.

its not a doll . . . ITS AN ACTION FIGURE!!!!!!!! or is it? IDK 

All 8 of them are action figures, only 2 of them (Shepard, Miranda) are dolls.

[LPPrince]

chengthao wrote...

i have nothing against post-release DLC b/c i believe the Devs deserved to be paid for their hard work, but pre-release DLC, seems like that should already be in-game content, its like they took out some weapons and armor and decided to sell it as DLC b/c they knew enough ppl would buy it, b/c they knew that ppl would defend their poor business practice, that's my only real beef with this

And what if all that bonus content pre-release and on day-one were items they worked their butts off to produce on the side specifically to sell as extras?

Do they not deserve to be paid for their work then?

[D1100111101]

Did some of you not read the article on which this thread is based? No one ever said the content was EXCLUSIVE to the figurine packaging, it's a tacked on bonus for those who want to buy the action figures. If someone was going to buy the action figures they now get a bonus for doing so, while the rest of us non-action figure buying people will have to pay a few dollars for multiplayer weapons and armor in the future... that is if we want to. It's not like Bioware is forcing you to buy toys to get guns, they are rewarding those wayward souls who buy the toys with DLC they would otherwise have to drop another $2 on.

[chengthao]

LPPrince wrote...

chengthao wrote...

i have nothing against post-release DLC b/c i believe the Devs deserved to be paid for their hard work, but pre-release DLC, seems like that should already be in-game content, its like they took out some weapons and armor and decided to sell it as DLC b/c they knew enough ppl would buy it, b/c they knew that ppl would defend their poor business practice, that's my only real beef with this

And what if all that bonus content pre-release and on day-one were items they worked their butts off to produce on the side specifically to sell as extras?

Do they not deserve to be paid for their work then?

they do, but i doubt this is the case, EA only cares about $$$$, why have Devs do extra work when you can simply take in-game content, remove it and sell it as DLC, that would make you more $$$$ for less work, seems more efficient that way

[ganthet2000]

Ringo12 wrote...

A friend just sent me this link and well frankly this is dissapointing. I like that they are merchandising but come on I'd have to spend $271 for the full ME3 experience? I won't but still. All I can see this doing is promoting pirated DLC.

Edit: Forgot the link

http://kotaku.com/58...t-expensive-dlc 

This is about the same for any Acion Figure sets that have come out in the last 3 years at least. I am willing to bet a dollar that they are just a new skin for a character or something like that. Star Wars has done this with games before so have others. Bioware and EA are a business and they like making money. I will pick these up slowly. But I will get a few and so will others. Now if they could get Nerf to make some Mass Effect 3 dart guns that would rock.

[nelly21]

chengthao wrote...

yes and their increased profits comes at the expense of the cunsumers, we, the consumers, have to stand up against them b/c if you defend or support them then they will sontinue their poor business practices, why not sell half a game at $60+ and then make us pay another $10 for the other half? Lets just look at M$ and Apple, they outsource all their manufacturing jobs to China, paying 12yo .31 cents an hour, making them work 70+hr weeks w/o overtime and they save a whooping 23% and "pass" those savings onto us

http://blog.sfgate.c...cost-of-iphone/

you'd think near slave labour would save us more money, but it doesn't, this is what happens when ppl "support" companyies' bad business practices and say "oh its only for profit"

http://www.complex.c...en-mass-suicide

I wonder if you're so righteous with your computer, smart phone, t.v., etc. (which are all subject to the same conditions) 

Why don't you boycott?

[AlanC9]

Wulfram wrote...

Day 1 DLC shatters the illusion that the released game represents the best efforts of the people who made it.

Sounds like DLC is actually a good thing, then. Illusions should be shattered whenever possible.

[chengthao]

nelly21 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

yes and their increased profits comes at the expense of the cunsumers, we, the consumers, have to stand up against them b/c if you defend or support them then they will sontinue their poor business practices, why not sell half a game at $60+ and then make us pay another $10 for the other half? Lets just look at M$ and Apple, they outsource all their manufacturing jobs to China, paying 12yo .31 cents an hour, making them work 70+hr weeks w/o overtime and they save a whooping 23% and "pass" those savings onto us

http://blog.sfgate.c...cost-of-iphone/

you'd think near slave labour would save us more money, but it doesn't, this is what happens when ppl "support" companyies' bad business practices and say "oh its only for profit"

http://www.complex.c...en-mass-suicide

I wonder if you're so righteous with your computer, smart phone, t.v., etc. (which are all subject to the same conditions) 

Why don't you boycott?

its not about being "righteous", its about ppl defending companies and their poor business practices, its about ppl saying its their products and they have the "right" to continue practicing extremely poor business ethics, we as consumers shouldn't defend these types of poor business ethics, we as consumers shouldn't support near-slave labour and say its so they can increase their profits (and if you simply don't care about the Chinese you should at least care that "slave" labour only saves you 23%)

and i will boycott, i don't own any Apple products and the only M$ things i do buy is simply software, my TV was made in Japan, same with my car, my computer was manufactured in the US and my laptop was manufactured in Japan, my 360 in Mexico

[Darth_Trethon]

People are sweating this too much....it doesn't say "exclusive" DLC and the fact it's limited to NA also means that in all probability it will be available for purchase separately like ME2's alt appearance packs.

[D1100111101]

scyphozoa wrote...

D1100111101 wrote...

Did some of you not read the article on which this thread is based? No one ever said the content was EXCLUSIVE to the figurine packaging, it's a tacked on bonus for those who want to buy the action figures. If someone was going to buy the action figures they now get a bonus for doing so, while the rest of us non-action figure buying people will have to pay a few dollars for multiplayer weapons and armor in the future... that is if we want to. It's not like Bioware is forcing you to buy toys to get guns, they are rewarding those wayward souls who buy the toys with DLC they would otherwise have to drop another $2 on.

Here is the thing, I would love to believe this. But Bioware has a history since DAO of not offering its promo content ever again. You simply cannot buy the pre-order DLC for DAO anywhere. The same goes for ME2, to be fair Bioware made the Incisor sniper rifle available, but not the Blackstorm armor or singularity projector.

I'm not saying this to be a pessimist, but because I've already waited months for Bioware to release old promo content and it hasn't happened. People who want to guarantee they get this content have to buy it at launch, or they risk having to buy it on Ebay, or from another user on these forums. Or they can be optimistic and hope that Bioware changes heart and starts releasing promo content after launch.

I would sympathize with you if I didn't go ahead and pay the extra money for the collector's edition of every ME game specifically for 'exclusive' content (and a shiny metal case, of course).  And because my nerdy **** pays the extra money I do expect to get early access to weapons and armor and characters.  The blackstorm armor was a tack on from pre-ordering at Gamestop, and Gamestop has to compensate EA/Bioware for that exclusivity.  Besides, the Blackstorm armor doesn't cause an issue, it's not a game chaning piece of content, none of the armor or weapon packs are.  It's not like they didn't sell the character/sidemissions to everyone, you're not missing out on a full game you just have to live without some armor you would never use and weapons that make the game slightly easier on the hardcore/insanity difficulties. 

[chengthao]

Scary Shepard wrote...

chengthao wrote...

yes and their increased profits comes at the expense of the cunsumers, we, the consumers, have to stand up against them b/c if you defend or support them then they will sontinue their poor business practices, why not sell half a game at $60+ and then make us pay another $10 for the other half? Lets just look at M$ and Apple, they outsource all their manufacturing jobs to China, paying 12yo .31 cents an hour, making them work 70+hr weeks w/o overtime and they save a whooping 21% and "pass" those savings onto us, you'd think near slave labour would save us more money, but it doesn't, this is what happens when ppl "support" companies' bad business practices and say "oh its only for profit"

You are taking my statement that DLC is a fair means by which developers pursue larger profits, and extrapolating that to say I advocate slave labour. This is a fallacy.

no but by supporting them and defending them you are allowing them to perform these poor business practices, this leads to escalation, first it was post-release DLC (i have nothing against this, in fact i support it), when that was successful then it became pre-order/CE DLC exclusives, now its pre-release paid DLC, whats next? when a company closes a manufacturing plant to increase profits, ppl support and defend them b/c they are "saving" money and "lowering" prices, then they outsource to China and "slave" labour "saves" the consumer 23% and ppl defend this horrible business practice and say its all for profit, all i'm saying is lets not be quick to defend poor business practices b/c we the consumers are the ones who suffer . . . i may boycott but others won't and me boycotting does nothing to the company and guess what b/c ppl still support these bad business practices they will continue and things always escalate

[AndrewRogue]

If there was one thing I'd criticize Bioware for in general these days, it'd be their DLC and DLC policies in general. They've just done some really stupid things with it (I'm looking at YOU DA:O) and, unfortunately, it also has shown relatively cheaper and faster development.

This, however, does not mean that all DLC is bad. People throw out the "not the whole game!" argument but, practically speaking, DLC allows companies to expand content and actually release the game at some point. Fighting games with DLC characters are actually a pretty good example. You can release the game with a solid roster and then incrementally add new characters instead of the more standard model right now of "Wait X months, release new version of game."

Could those characters have been included originally? Sure. But then we get into an ugly cycle as we wait for character X to be finished, but then, oh no, character Y should be included and we need to make him and then as Y is finishing, people would love character Z... and the game either never sees the light of day or you just never get X, Y and Z in the game.

I'm kind of surprised at the negative reaction to DLC in general. Is a lot of it being managed poorly currently right now in the gaming industry? Yeah. Is it inherently a bad/evil thing? God, no. In fact, DLC could be a fair amount of good if it were used correctly.

[Poison_Berrie]

chengthao wrote...
i have nothing against post-release DLC b/c i believe the Devs deserved to be paid for their hard work, but pre-release DLC, seems like that should already be in-game content, its like they took out some weapons and armor and decided to sell it as DLC b/c they knew enough ppl would buy it, b/c they knew that ppl would defend their poor business practice, that's my only real beef with this

No. They've created cheat items so that people pre-order or order merchandise. Also companies have approached them to make content specfically for their store, to one up their competitors.

This stuff has now become so common that this stuff is thought about and planned from the start, rather than a last minute "take it out of the game and make it DLC".


It takes on ridicilous shapes and becomes a horrible, bloated abomination and I would prefer it if they just kept all that stuff to a minimum. Unfortunatly the people who complain so much about this stuff are likely the ones that end up buying it out of completionist urges and thus support this kind of behavior the only way one can, with money.

[davidt0504]

how does rock band not have the most expensive?

[dreman9999]

nelly21 wrote...

Scary Shepard wrote...

I disagree. As I've stated, there is no end of products out there for which companies market additional add-ons, upgrades, attachments e.t.c, the car metaphor I used previously is an example, but the same principle can be applied to many things, kitchen appliances, computers, TVs and so on. The core product which the consumer buys is still functional, but can be enhanced or customised with additional products the consumer can buy if they see fit.

As far as I'm concerned, the same principle applies. A game is still playable without DLC- if a consumer chooses to buy it so as to enhance it, it's their decision.

I don't begrudge game companies for doing it since most games (with the notable exception of subscribed MMOs) only generate a developer income at the point of purchase. Many other consumer products can generate its manufacturer money in other ways after a sale- warranties, repairs, servicing and so on. A DVD requires none of these things. So if the company pushes for more money through other methods, I have no problem with that.

Extremely well said.

No, it's not.  Look at the context of what this dlc is. Your missed "full experiance" is a character skin or a gun for mp. That's like saying you need that one type of free poster you get with a dvd at one place for buying it there as well ast he poster from somewhere else to have the full experiance.

[Poison_Berrie]

Are you sure you quoted the right post there dreman?

[Saint Op]

I am currently on every website ever...
I need to do this or I feel like my ISP is ripping me off by not giving me everything ...wait Grannies with Bears is a pay site...Nooooooo what scam.
I am also watching every TV channel at the same time...I always large size too..

This just in Mass Effect is putting the end of the game as separate DLC only available with the purchase of a new Benz. Not sure but I read it here...

[DayusMakhina]

AndrewRogue wrote...

I'm kind of surprised at the negative reaction to DLC in general. Is a lot of it being managed poorly currently right now in the gaming industry? Yeah. Is it inherently a bad/evil thing? God, no. In fact, DLC could be a fair amount of good if it were used correctly.

I think a lot of it is down to peoples inability to understand the basic principles of publishing. Has always got me how people would always complain that "Day 1 DLC should be in the game because it was clearly ready for release so had to of been kept back" when in actual fact any game has to of gone 'Gold' long before it is set to be released, considering it has to be screened, rated, produced and distributed. All of that takes time meaning that even if companies have DLC ready for Day 1 that is still content that would NOT of been able to make it onto the disc without delaying the release of the game.

Alas people like to whinge about anything, even when they have no clue, either that or they close their eyes and put their fingers and their ears, ignore any valid explanation and then proceed to continue moaning like little children, which is pretty much self entitlement at it's finest.

Modifié par DayusMakhina, 23 janvier 2012 - 03:40 .