340 réponses à ce sujet

[nelly21]

chengthao wrote...

and i will boycott, i don't own any Apple products and the only M$ things i do buy is simply software, my TV was made in Japan, same with my car, my computer was manufactured in the US and my laptop was manufactured in Japan, my 360 in Mexico

I see. So buying their big selling products will curtail these practices. /sarcasm

Furthermore, what do their manufacturing practices have to do with the discussion at hand (dlc)? By your definition of escalation will EA soon have slave Chinese programmers pumping out dlc? You're taking an unrelated problem to boost your weak arguments against day one dlc.

[AlanC9]

I also think it's because people think a little strangely when the subject is intellectual property.

You often hear day one DLC compared to options packages for a car. There is a difference though; it isn't free to add the options package to a car since each component has to be physically manufactured, but adding DLC to every game shipped would be free. So some folks seem to just feel --not really think -- this means that the companies should add all the DLC to the games because it wouldn't cost them anything to do that.

Of course, this makes no logical sense. It's the equivalent of saying that options packages should be installed in new cars at cost, rather than for profit.

[nelly21]

The PLC wrote...

That's the dumbest thing anyone has ever written on here. 

How does that even make sense? DLC is a good thing, because it lets people know they're buying a game with missing weapons?! What!??!?! 

They aren't missing weapons. They were designed to be dlc. Again. You cannot claim that something that was never meant to be part of base product is misssing content. My truck is On-star ready. I even have the buttons on my dashboard. I chose not to subscribe to On-star. Is that content missing from my truck?

[LPPrince]

People also tend to forget or not believe that these extras actually took work to make just like everything else in the game and would've never made it to completion if DLC wasn't an option.

[AlanC9]

The PLC wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Day 1 DLC shatters the illusion that the released game represents the best efforts of the people who made it.

Sounds like DLC is actually a good thing, then. Illusions should be shattered whenever possible.

That's the dumbest thing anyone has ever written on here. 

How does that even make sense? DLC is a good thing, because it lets people know they're buying a game with missing weapons?! What!??!?! 

You didn't follow Wulfram's point... or maybe I didn't.

Believing that a released game represents the best efforts of everyone involved simply is an illusion. All games are made under time, manpower, and marketing constraints. With infinite time and infinite manpower you'd get a better game; I suppose they'd have to charge infinite dollars for it too. But you don't get those things made in the real world.

However many weapons ME3 ships with, it could always ship with more. I suppose there's a theoretical maximum where all the players just say "enough, already," but what game ever released with that Platonic ideal of content?

The "complete ME3" without DLC that some players want is a fantasy. It never was going to exist.

[LPPrince]

AlanC9 wrote...

The "complete ME3" without DLC that some players want is a fantasy. It never was going to exist.

Thats not gonna stop the discussions, unfortunately.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Most misleading title ever

[Matt VT Schlo]

I got all the ME2 DLC, but I will be damned if I have to buy figures to complete the DLC for this game....ME2 wasn't that good from a story aspect.....so I am approaching this one a little more cautiously.

[LPPrince]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Most misleading title ever

And most misleading article ever.

And most misled consumers ever.

[Cloaking_Thane]

LPPrince wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Most misleading title ever

And most misleading article ever.

And most misled consumers ever.

Ever!!!

[CannonO]

I feel like I need to repost this since people stupidly keep saying to just not buy the DLC. As if us fans of the series can just pretend the DLC doesn't exist.

CannonLars wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's not like you have the choice of not buying the DLCs and not paying the companies a single dime or anything.

Like myself. I'm totally not able to not pre-order the game from GameStop since I think they're a bunch of lowlife opportunists with nothing better to bargain with than a lousy DLC weapon and armor, the first of which is already in the game but in a different shape.

I'll bring this in from a similar thread:

CannonLars wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

A transparent sales plot that no one is required to pay for. So don't pay for it.

That's basically saying, "You want content? Well don't get any."

It ignores that we have a right to speak out agaainst their DLC practices while some of us still obtain the content in the meantime while we hope that they take our thoughts into consideration.

Those of us who want content have no choice. We get the content, and we just have to speak out about our issues with its release and how we get it. There is nothing wrong with that. It is feedback on something we feel is executed wrong, but as the only means to reach the product, we will have to follow their plans and hope they are respectable people that care about their customer's interests and experiences.

[ARustyFirePlace]

thanks consoles for that

[Scary Shepard]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Are you sure you quoted the right post there dreman?

I have to agree- I'm not quite sure what you're getting at there.

[Matt VT Schlo]

Ok, look at the DLC for ME2: while the outfits were cool, did they improve the game itself? No....if you do not buy the figures for the DLC, then you are voting with your dollars. If you want the figures cause you collect em, more power to you.....

[chengthao]

nelly21 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

and i will boycott, i don't own any Apple products and the only M$ things i do buy is simply software, my TV was made in Japan, same with my car, my computer was manufactured in the US and my laptop was manufactured in Japan, my 360 in Mexico

I see. So buying their big selling products will curtail these practices. /sarcasm

Furthermore, what do their manufacturing practices have to do with the discussion at hand (dlc)? By your definition of escalation will EA soon have slave Chinese programmers pumping out dlc? You're taking an unrelated problem to boost your weak arguments against day one dlc.

it may or may not but i certainy don't support it as you do, i don't defend these poor business practices and when my computer/360 breaks down i will switch to Mac and PS3

escalation (in relation to DLC) is not turning to slave labour but rather buy half a game for $60 and pay $10 for the end of the game as DLC, my arguement of poor manufacturing pratices is that these business men have no ethics and care nothing about the ppl they rape, they have proven that they will sacrifice others as well as quality for the sake of "profits", that is my point

Modifié par chengthao, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:39 .

[AlanC9]

chengthao wrote...

escalation (in relation to DLC) is not turning to slave labour but rather buy half a game for $60 and pay $10 for the end of the game as DLC,

I don't think that's too realistic; people wouldn't buy it.

What  might happen is someone trying a completely episodic model. That would work for linear games, or even quasi-linear RPG campaigns like NWN1 and NWN2's, which would break up neatly by chapter. It'd work badly for a game structured like KotOR or DAO.

[Someone With Mass]

CannonLars wrote...

I feel like I need to repost this since people stupidly keep saying to just not buy the DLC. As if us fans of the series can just pretend the DLC doesn't exist.

CannonLars wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

It's not like you have the choice of not buying the DLCs and not paying the companies a single dime or anything.

Like myself. I'm totally not able to not pre-order the game from GameStop since I think they're a bunch of lowlife opportunists with nothing better to bargain with than a lousy DLC weapon and armor, the first of which is already in the game but in a different shape.

I'll bring this in from a similar thread:

CannonLars wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

A transparent sales plot that no one is required to pay for. So don't pay for it.

That's basically saying, "You want content? Well don't get any."

It ignores that we have a right to speak out agaainst their DLC practices while some of us still obtain the content in the meantime while we hope that they take our thoughts into consideration.

Those of us who want content have no choice. We get the content, and we just have to speak out about our issues with its release and how we get it. There is nothing wrong with that. It is feedback on something we feel is executed wrong, but as the only means to reach the product, we will have to follow their plans and hope they are respectable people that care about their customer's interests and experiences.

You win some, you lose some.

The game is not incomplete if you don't buy any of the DLCs and I can personally do just fine without them when they're distributed like that, because I know that there's nothing to lose, since they're optional.

I never got the Terminus armor and weapon for ME2, and I never even considered getting the Dr.Pepper stuff until another opportunity came that let me get them with little to no effort.

I got a little angry at first, but then I learned to DEAL WITH IT.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 23 janvier 2012 - 04:52 .

[Robhuzz]

Atakuma wrote...

Full experience? It's just a bunch of extra weapons.

Exactly. Who the hell cares about a few extra weapons anyway? I too would hate it if it included actual dlc that was about characters or the story but to get wound up like this over a few weapons is just rediculous.

[nelly21]

chengthao wrote...

it may or may not but i certainy don't support it as you do, i don't defend these poor business practices and when my computer/360 breaks down i will switch to Mac and PS3

escalation (in realtion to DLC) is not turning to slave labour but rather buy half a game for $60 and pay $10 for the end of the game as DLC, my arguement of poor manufacturing pratices is that these business men have no ethics and care nothing about the ppl they rape, they have proven that they will sacrifice others as well as quality for the sake of "profits", that is my point

They aren't poor business practices (dlc). Dlc makes them money and adds additional OPTIONAL content to a game. You aren't buying half a game. You are buying a complete game. The additional $10 dollars is for ADDITIONAL CONTENT.  You argue against dlc just because it's day 1. So announcing it later would be okay?

Until you run into a situation where you are at point A and the only way to advance to point B is through the purchase of dlc, your argument that the initial purchase is incomplete will continue to be wrong. You want the dlc? Buy it. Don't want to buy it? Personal problem.

[CannonO]

Robhuzz wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

Full experience? It's just a bunch of extra weapons.

Exactly. Who the hell cares about a few extra weapons anyway? I too would hate it if it included actual dlc that was about characters or the story but to get wound up like this over a few weapons is just rediculous.

Some of us care about Mass Effect in its entirety.

"The little things... there's nothing bigger, is there?"

[chengthao]

AlanC9 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

escalation (in relation to DLC) is not turning to slave labour but rather buy half a game for $60 and pay $10 for the end of the game as DLC,

I don't think that's too realistic; people wouldn't buy it.

What  might happen is someone trying a completely episodic model. That would work for linear games, or even quasi-linear RPG campaigns like NWN1 and NWN2's, which would break up neatly by chapter. It'd work badly for a game structured like KotOR or DAO.

i kno, i was over-exagerrating, but still my point is that escalation could easily lead to leaving out content that would've otherwise been in-game content and selling it as DLC . . . its a poor business ethic but it is good business, i mean why spend more money on something when you can simply leave things out and re-package it as DLC, we will never truly kno what happens in these executive meetings unless the devs speak out (like the DA2 devs)

[CannonO]

The PLC wrote...

I think what pisses people off the most is that most of all this DLC will never be available to the public (probably).

That is one problem, which ties in heavily with the fact that they are even doing exclusive day one DLCs in the first place (the other problem).

[Walker White]

AlanC9 wrote...

chengthao wrote...

escalation (in relation to DLC) is not turning to slave labour but rather buy half a game for $60 and pay $10 for the end of the game as DLC,

I don't think that's too realistic; people wouldn't buy it.

What  might happen is someone trying a completely episodic model. That would work for linear games, or even quasi-linear RPG campaigns like NWN1 and NWN2's, which would break up neatly by chapter. It'd work badly for a game structured like KotOR or DAO.

Episodic models were all the rage a few years ago, but appear to have petered out.  The problem is that players want a level of polish that essentially forces larger content, released less often to be profitable.  Economies of scale work against episodic content.

Items on the other hand, are completely different.  If you have item damage/deterioration, then you never have to really worry about balance or polish, as the mistakes will "phase themselves out".  That is why freemium business models are always about loot rarely around story content.