340 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

I have yet to buy a single ME DLC in my entire time playing the franchise. For those who say they are missing out on LOADS of content without buying Day One DLC... don't buy it on Day One?

Come June, this stuff can be bought in bulk for under $5. Buy the core game Day One, then find out what trimmings are worth paying for and wait for them to drop in value.

And if you're worried about missing out on characters or missing missions... YouTube is a WONDERFUL thing.

[Mike Shepard]

scyphozoa wrote...

I have no problem with companies making profits, in fact, I love to compensate content creators. However, there is a point where driving profits is at the expense of the user's experience. That is what these promotions are about. EA/Bioware benefit, the retailers (Gamestop, Amazon, etc) benefit, but the customer does not benefit. The customer has to buy multiple copies of the same game to get one full game's worth of content.(1) The customer has to buy a bunch of stuff they might not have any interest in, in order to obtain all in-game content.

I have no problem if Bioware wants to release this content at a later time, but no content should force the customer to buy non-game products or accessories in order to obtain all in-game content (2)

Micro-dlc profits aren't worth pissing on your core fanbase, and thats exactly what this business model does. Sure lots of people might not care about owning every piece of content, but those of us who do (and the many threads regarding this topic are proof that there are many of us) are getting a crappy deal. We have to buy or participate in a bunch of promotional crap because Bioware is selling off in-game content to the highest bidder. (3)


EDIT - No, I don't consider promotional DLC to be "additional." ALL content is part of the FULL BODY OF WORK.

Anything less than full body of work is insufficient, IMO.

(1) - That's just insane. Why would you buy two copies of one game to get for instance a shotgun when there are plenty in the game?!

(2) No one. NO ONE! is forcing you. that idea is insane that you're being held at gun point to buy the figures.

(3) AGAIN!!! NO ONE IS FORCING YOU!!! Stop complaining! If you don't want the toys, live without the accompanying DLC or wait for it to be released at a later date! No one has a gun to your head saying you have to do this or have to do that...you don't have to do anything.

If you want to see a game that is incomplete when it was shipped I give you Assassin's Creed II. That game was not complete when it shipped. There are plenty of weapons in this game already. I know you want everything but do you know how many companies have done promotional DLC? look it up. A lot of studios do promotional DLC. Buy a  $2 drink at Subway, get Uncharted DLC. buy a $2.50 bottle of Dr. Pepper, get Mass Effect DLC. I still don't have the Dr. Pepper DLC and I live in the US. I want it but I am not throwing a hissy fit over it.

That's my last word on this topic.

[Epsilon330]

The codes are MP skins, I think.

[Mclouvins]

scyphozoa wrote...

Mike Shepard wrote...
(1) - That's just insane. Why would you buy two copies of one game to get for instance a shotgun when there are plenty in the game?!

(2) No one. NO ONE! is forcing you. that idea is insane that you're being held at gun point to buy the figures.

(3) AGAIN!!! NO ONE IS FORCING YOU!!! Stop complaining!

1)  It is the only way to obtain exclusive pre-order DLC.

2) I am forced to buy multiple copies of the games, action figures and participate in promotions IF I want to own the content. 

3) I will not stop complaining about bad business practices, marketing and distribution.

Lots of people keep posting the same rhetoric "I don't care, so you shouldn't care either." This is absolute garbage, because I'm not asking what other people think, I'm telling Bioware what I care about personally. Congrats if you don't care about this, but you're not going to convince me or anyone else to share your views or values.

Personal responsibility and cost/benefit analyses, problem solved.

[AlanC9]

Walker White wrote...
Episodic models were all the rage a few years ago, but appear to have petered out.  The problem is that players want a level of polish that essentially forces larger content, released less often to be profitable.  Economies of scale work against episodic content.

Good point. I should have remembered that Valve already tried this, since I've just reinstalled HL2: Episode 1. (One of these years they're bound to wrap that series up, I hope)

[IBPROFEN]

The only thing that made me mad about DLC was AP packs. BW/EA instead of allowing my shepard to buy or find new armor for Garrus in ME2. they want me to buy with BW points a APpack to fix the problem. So Garrus is still running around in my game with broken armor.

[AlanC9]

scyphozoa wrote...

2) I am forced to buy multiple copies of the games, action figures and participate in promotions IF I want to own the content.

That's an odd way to used "forced," you know. It's true, but only in the trivial sense that any business deal is forced on whoever didn't propose the deal in the first place. If I want to play ME3 without DLC I'm "forced"to hand over $60 or thereabouts to either EA or one of EA's distributors.

[Dragoonlordz]

AlanC9 wrote...

Walker White wrote...
Episodic models were all the rage a few years ago, but appear to have petered out.  The problem is that players want a level of polish that essentially forces larger content, released less often to be profitable.  Economies of scale work against episodic content.

Good point. I should have remembered that Valve already tried this, since I've just reinstalled HL2: Episode 1. (One of these years they're bound to wrap that series up, I hope)

lol nah. They like you where you are, waiting. Then pull a Duke Nukey and dissapoint you. 

[Boiny Bunny]

scyphozoa wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

2) I am forced to buy multiple copies of the games, action figures and participate in promotions IF I want to own the content.

That's an odd way to used "forced," you know. It's true, but only in the trivial sense that any business deal is forced on whoever didn't propose the deal in the first place. If I want to play ME3 without DLC I'm "forced"to hand over $60 or thereabouts to either EA or one of EA's distributors.

I mean it as "Required." I am required to buy multiple copies/participate in promotions in order to obtain the content. These are the terms to obtaining the content and that is exactly what I'm objecting to. I am happy to pay Bioware 5 dollars for this promo content, but I need better terms for obtaining it. The terms of "buy 2 copies of the game and buy 8 action figures" are not acceptable to me.

Unfortunately for you, this is actually an excellent marketing tool.

All I can say to you is, if you honestly don't want to encourage Bioware or EA to use this strategy in the future, do not buy multiple copies of the game or any of the action figures.  Can you do that?  Can you restrain yourself?  There are already many on these forums who have announced their intentions (or pre-orders) for multiple copies of the game to get all the DLC!  In terms of cost benefit analysis, there is a massive potential profit there for Bioware.  How long does it take them to create a single extra shotgun say?  10 minutes of fiddling with statistics, maybe a few hours to recolour an already existing shotgun.  Probably a couple of hundred dollars.  If even 1% of the people who purchase ME3 buy more than 1 copy to get this extra shotgun, that could equate to 20,000 extra sales or more!

As I said, an excellent marketing tool, and unfortunately for you, unless you can resist your temptation to buy multiple copies and toys to get all the DLC - this will be the way of the future.

[Travie]

I really can't believe that this thread is still going on.

Its just dolls with a little DLC (probably something cosmetic).

[CannonO]

Travie wrote...

I really can't believe that this thread is still going on.

Its just dolls with a little DLC (probably something cosmetic).

I think the other DLC thread is better! The $120+ one.

[AlanC9]

scyphozoa wrote...
I mean it as "Required." I am required to buy multiple copies/participate in promotions in order to obtain the content. These are the terms to obtaining the content and that is exactly what I'm objecting to. I am happy to pay Bioware 5 dollars for this promo content, but I need better terms for obtaining it. The terms of "buy 2 copies of the game and buy 8 action figures" are not acceptable to me.

Well, if you need better terms, then I guess Bio's just going to have to accept that they're not selling you that DLC.

[Varen Spectre]

Scary Shepard wrote...

I've never really understood all the furore over this. How people can consider their ME3 RUINED FOREVER because they don't have every promotional weapon/armour/tea cosy is mind-boggling.

The DLC offered with certain products is a promotional gimmick. They're going to add precious little in terms of gameplay, and if you play the game without them, I sincerely doubt you'd notice something to be lacking.

When I bought my car from the dealer, it didn't come with every single optional extra. However, still fulfills its purpose, and I still love it, regardless of the fact it doesn't have "everything" it could possibly have. The core game of ME3 will still be "functional" regardless of how much DLC you throw at it. If you want to expand on that, it's your prerogative.

I would say, that's because you are looking at it from neutral perspective, almost like a judge (and I don't mean it in negative way) who just looks whether one of the parties has ownership, authors', etc. rights to the thing in question and when you see that's indeed the case, you come to (rightful and logical) conclusion, that the party with the rights can do whatever they want with that thing as long as it is legal and not harmful to other parties (at least not without their consent).

On the other hand, the guys who complain are looking at it from... I would call it... short term consumers' perspective (short term because they do not take into account that a company which would continuously listen to all their demands could eventually go bankrupt or stop making certain types of games). In other words, they want to negotiate through process of posting complaints, spuring discussions, boycotting and encouraging other people to boycott, etc. the best possible position for them - i.e. as much content as possible for as low price as possible. And in this case, that means as few day one DLCs as possible. 

Is it selfish? I would say, it depends on the perspective, but most likely yes. At least to some degree (though the companies are most likely selfish too). Is such behaviour unreasonable? I would say no. I mean, the risk / reward ratio definitely encourages them to at least try it... because...

1. What's the hypothetical reward? - The growing protests could eventually discourage the company from making DLCs and force it to stop or reduce their production or at least improve their quality (even more). Of course, the chance of that happening is extremely small but...

2. What's the hypothetical risk? - Practically nothing.

As long as posters do not overreact and break the site rules... they are completely fine. Theoretically, even the opposition on the forums should be somewhat weaker than in cases of other complaints or demands because the idea of no day one DLCs implies that everyone gets everything that developers created until the game was released for the price lower than would be the price of the game + all DLCs, so even some people who would otherwise consider such demands selfish, unjust or inappropriate would financially benefit from them, which may potentially discourage some of them from going against the "protesters". 

Of course, the "protesters" may harm their reputation on the forum in the eyes of people who disagree with them (for whatever reasons) and may end up in few arguments, but that's most likely not a big deal for them anyway. Not to mention that conflicts and arguments give them and their opinions important exposure and increase their chances of convincing other people about their cause...

... so yep, when there's practically nothing to lose, even the smallest or least probable things are worth fighting for / coplaining about (pick one according to your stance^_^).

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:03 .

[Stanley Woo]

Let's keep similar discussions in the same thread, please. Thank you.

End of line.