438 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

I was under the impression you were talking about characters with no other expressed sexual orientation other than a desire to hook up with the player character being the problem. Of which, in the DA2 roster, there are two.

Well, maybe three. Sebastian never outright tells everyone around him he's heterosexual, from what I remember.

[Xilizhra]

Sexual identity is not only not a focus of the game, for most of the romance options at least, it simply does not exist. And I think that's a real shame, a wasted opportunity to not only explore a different facet of characters we all love, but maybe (just maybe) help us get a little insight into our own lives.

Right. So you're fine with them all being bisexual assuming the romance addresses this somehow?

[clennon8]

Plaintiff wrote...

I'm getting really sick of these threads, so I'm copy-pasting what I had to say last time.

Plaintiff wrote...
As a homosexual, I despise and loath media that deals with alternative sexuality 99% of the time, because, inevitably, the entire conflict surrounding that character is their alternative sexuality. Rarely if ever does the character have a personality outside of that. This is not to say that they fill a certain stereotype about homosexuals. They might not, but you'd never ****ing know it because all anybody talks about with them is how incredibly gay they are. It happens everywhere. Books, movies, television.

"I am gay and I get bullied because I'm gay and I like this guy but he's not gay and I am gay. Now I have a boyfriend but I'm confused about how to do the sex because of the gay. Now I'm married to a women, to cover up my gay. Gay gay gay, gay gay gay gay gay, gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay gay gay gay."

I want gay characters who have interests and experience conflicts outside their sexuality. Where are the gay action heroes? Do our limp wrists break when we try to pick up a weapon? Or maybe we can't conceal any in our skin-tight fishnet shirts and assless leather chaps? Or maybe our lisp and effeminate gestures give us away when we're working undercover.

Comic books, surprisingly, seem to be way ahead of the curve on this, but the rest of the world is slow to catch up.

What's my point? Well, what I'm getting to is that DA2 is one of the few, if not the only game to deal with alternative sexuality in the right way. It's available, but not essential to the plot or the characters. The choice of what sexual-related content, and how much of it you experience of it is left entirely up to the player, which isnt possible in non-interactive media. Heck; players don't have to romance anyone at all if they think romances are stupid.

Anders and Isabela may mention a liking for members of their own gender, but it doesn't define them by any means, despite what people say. Their sexuality is but one facet of their personalities, and one that can be ignored with no consequence whatsoever. Their personal plotlines have nothing to do with their sexuality, except Ander's initial companion quest, just barely. The connection is fairly circumstantial.

For a long time I've wondered why other games, movies and books dealing with alternative sexuality focus on it to the exclusion of pretty much anything else. Now, after reading this thread, I understand that any efforts to present audiences with the kind of story I want will be futile, because once you bring up the gay even once, that is all they see. And by God, they will complain about it forever.

This argument about the romance options ruining verisimilitude is pathetic. The romances should be available to everyone. There is no good reason to limit a player's choices in this regard. The romance content is completely optional and has no bearing whatsoever on any other aspect of the plot or the wider world, not even the individual sidequests of the party members. You can completely ignore the romances without penalty, so to say that they affect verisimilitude is pathetic.

Befriending more than the average amount of bisexuals (whatever the "average amount" is) is far more believable than Hawke's tendency to stumble into every major conflict in Kirkwall.

^^^ What this person said.

[whykikyouwhy]

General User wrote...
Sexual identity is not only not a focus of the game, for most of the romance options at least, it simply does not exist.  And I think that's a real shame, a wasted opportunity to not only explore a different facet of characters we all love, but maybe (just maybe) help us get a little insight into our own lives.

The sexual identities of people in general indeed are not much of a concern for much of anyone in Thedas.  But I can all but promise you, when it comes to the particular sexual orientation of the particular person any particular Thedan has his or her heart set on, such things move right to the top of the list.

Not necessarily. If there is a much more casual regard for sexual orientation in Thedas, or rather, it's not viewed as something to worry over the social implications of, then your average Thedan may simply approach the person of his/her affection with simply the thought of "I hope (s)he likes me." Not "I hope (s)he is attracted to my gender." I'm simplifying it a bit, but that's my take away for how things may possibly work in Thedan society. People won't bat an eye or get offended or angry if you flirt with them and they are not interested. It won't be a social stigma, but merely a matter of "no thanks, I'm not interested" (and most likely that disinterest will not be for matters of that person's gender first and foremost).

The thing is, in a weird way (and tell me if you disagree), but it's actually incumbent on fantasy and science fiction to be MORE realistic and believable than more conventional forms of fiction.  What I mean by that is  sci-fi and fantasy are arenas where the imagination is given license to run wild.  Now that license can be used to either go completely off the rails or to answer the high calling and make the truly fantastic believable.  When a truly talented creative mind or minds set themselves to the later, the result is a work of wonder that enlightens both the imagination and the intellect. 

This is where DAII failed.  Dragon Age II made the fantastic tedious, mundane, and trite.  Of a certainty, "hawkesexual" romance options were not the only, or even the main factor in that failure, but they were a part of it.  And one deserving of special care and attention precisely because they strike such a personal chord with so many of us fans.

I think you may be right with regard the expectations of fantasy, but I don't agree that DA2 failed in that regard. DA2 wasn't perfect by any means, and there are many areas within the narrative that I would have liked to have seen more enrichment of. But I don't see the Hawkesexual aspect of the romance paths as anything that marred the story. Much of the awareness of the Hawkesexual nature of things is within the realm of meta-gaming. If I did one single playthrough of DA2, I wouldn't know how the characters may feel about who they are or what type of person they may be attracted to, because I may not have had Hawke approach them in that manner. And even if I did flirt with all of them, I could easily see their responses as indicative of their nature as characters. Maybe they all see something in Hawke that they find attractive, and without the social barriers in place, they have no personal qualms about expressing that attraction.

I guess for me, DA2 did strike a personal chord. But I wasn't looking for it to, and certainly not for matters of sexual identity. I found the characters to be rich, to have wonderful backstories, to have great banter. And so, their tales, the sum total, were moving. They were beautifully flawed, and thus I responded to them on a human level - not as a woman, or as a lesbian, but as a person with hopes and fears, concepts of right and wrong, of loyalty. The fact that the companions did run a small gamut of diversity though, that they could engage in a relationship with Hawke that I could apply my own concept of gay or bisexual to...well, that was refreshing. Because then I could make Hawke whoever I wanted her to be.

With regard to sexual identity integrating itself into one's day to day, our personal experiences probably vary. But I know that if I had to sit down and map out how I look at things, how I react to things, that which is first in my awareness is not my sexual identity, but my family identity, for lack of a better way to word it - how I was raised, under what values, etc. I react more based on my own sense of right and wrong than anything else. Sexual identity probably is an undercurrent of that, sure, but not where I am conscious of it. Second to my upbringing is probably my geekness - I make a slew of references (either actually vacalized or just in my mental monologue) from all of the geek things that I love. Those parallels infiltrate into my day. And again, sexual identity may be an undercurrent.

When that identity comes into play is when someone else makes it so - when I have to defend myself, or state the case for equality and the treatment of all people as humans, when I have to correct someone using a slur. Then I have to consciously think of my response as both a woman, and a lesbian. It's a situational response for me. Otherwise, that aspect, that gayness, is part of the rest of me - it's all one mix and blend, and seldom do I stop and parse out the different threads.

That's where I was coming from...and again, our experiences may differ.

One last point with regard to Isabela - at the point of that introduction, where she makes her offer of company, a player does not know that she is bisexual exactly (she's not actively part of the party and thus we have no witty banter yet). If she flirts with a F!Hawke, she could easily be a lesbian. If she flirts with a M!Hawke, she could easily be straight. It's only later when we hear about her past that we can draw conclusions as to how she might identify herself.

[ddv.rsa]

Can they even be considered bisexual? Isabella aside, I always thought of companion sexuality being subjective based on Hawke. If as a male you don't romance Fenris then why not think of him as straight?

[General User]

bleetman wrote...
I was under the impression you were talking about characters with no other expressed sexual orientation other than a desire to hook up with the player character being the problem. Of which, in the DA2 roster, there are two.

Well, maybe three. Sebastian never outright tells everyone around him he's heterosexual, from what I remember.

I'm looking at all all the Dragon Age romances, past present and future. 

Xilizhra wrote...
Right. So you're fine with them all being bisexual assuming the romance addresses this somehow?

I would say I would be fine with any of them being bisexual assuming the romance addresses this somehow.  For every person ones meets to be bisexual does strain credulity.  It's all about balance and respect.  Balance within the work and respect for the audience.

[esper]

General User wrote...

bleetman wrote...
I was under the impression you were talking about characters with no other expressed sexual orientation other than a desire to hook up with the player character being the problem. Of which, in the DA2 roster, there are two.

Well, maybe three. Sebastian never outright tells everyone around him he's heterosexual, from what I remember.

I'm looking at all all the Dragon Age romances, past present and future. 

Xilizhra wrote...
Right. So you're fine with them all being bisexual assuming the romance addresses this somehow?

I would say I would be fine with any of them being bisexual assuming the romance addresses this somehow.  For every person ones meets to be bisexual does strain credulity.  It's all about balance and respect.  Balance within the work and respect for the audience.

Why do you assume a bisexual would adress it. I have recently found out that I am leaning a little more towards the bi-side of things than the heterosexual side. I can gurentee you that I would never mention it to potential boyfriend/girlfriends unless they directly asked. It certainly also hasn't changed an aspect of my personality that my sexuality wasn't what I thought it was. I am still an introvert person who hates social gatherings and is incredible awkward unless I have to discuss morales, games or books. Similary why do you expect Merrill, Fenris and even Anders to make a big deal out of it when they have more important things on their mind than sex. Isabella blantly shows it, because she likes sex, all kind of sex and she also likes to talk about it. And I still don't see how four bi people in a group of around sex people are more unrealistic, than a group considering of dwarves, elves, mages, raiders, a city guard and a potential chantry priest. Player characters don't gather normal or realistic groups of friends, they never have and never will.  

[philippe willaume]

Hello
Well for a given play through as far as I can tell only Isabella is bi, as far as I can tell there other are either Hetero or ******. Yes some may be love interest for a male and a female Hawke but it is not the same storyline.
Now for the matter of being openly Bi, ****** or hetero it is a matter of societal constraint.
If Kirkwall was like a Greek Polis, being openly Bi would be kind of unsurprising if not the norm.

If Kirkwall was a Spanish city in the peak of the inquisition, (or an English one during Puritanism) even openly having hetero sex for fun would be frowned upon.

My point is that may be Kirkwall society does not stigmatise sexual preference. As far as it being forced upon us again I would say it depends of the socio-cultural back ground each one of us is coming from.
For me sexual preferences are like religion. As long as it is between consenting adults and no-ones try to save others despite themselves, it is all cool.

Phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 30 janvier 2012 - 02:02 .

[Malanu]

Well for a given play through as far as I can tell only Isabella is biHe only makes a cameo appearance but Zevran proves to be Bi also when he willingly romps off with Hawke and Isabella. Or at least in my book...

[philippe willaume]

Malanu wrote...

Well for a given play through as far as I can tell only Isabella is biHe only makes a cameo appearance but Zevran proves to be Bi also when he willingly romps off with Hawke and Isabella. Or at least in my book...

and since we do cameo,  lets not forget leliana who, like Zevran is, Bi from the first instalement

Phil

[Xilizhra]

I would say I would be fine with any of them being bisexual assuming the romance addresses this somehow. For every person ones meets to be bisexual does strain credulity. It's all about balance and respect. Balance within the work and respect for the audience.

Then that's your own problem, especially when two of them aren't even human.

[bleetman]

Every character in Dragon Age is bisexual? Did I buy the wrong version? I must've bought the wrong version.

[Demonhoopa]

bleetman wrote...

Every character in Dragon Age is bisexual? Did I buy the wrong version? I must've bought the wrong version.

I don't think they are. Isabela clearly is and I think Anders.

The others are "Hawke sexuals". They're either gay or straight depending on the gender of your Hawke.....and then only if you hit on them.

It's a non issue to me. I want as many choices as possible and was fricken annoyed that my Femshep couldn't hook up with Tali or Jack.

For me, DA2 "fixed" that.

[General User]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Not necessarily. If there is a much more casual regard for sexual orientation in Thedas, or rather, it's not viewed as something to worry over the social implications of, then your average Thedan may simply approach the person of his/her affection with simply the thought of "I hope (s)he likes me." Not "I hope (s)he is attracted to my gender." I'm simplifying it a bit, but that's my take away for how things may possibly work in Thedan society. People won't bat an eye or get offended or angry if you flirt with them and they are not interested. It won't be a social stigma, but merely a matter of "no thanks, I'm not interested" (and most likely that disinterest will not be for matters of that person's gender first and foremost).

Exactly!  You propose a number of thoughtful and intelligent scenarios by which issues around any given character's sexuality could be handled in a responsible fashion.

whykikyouwhy wrote...
I think you may be right with regard the expectations of fantasy, but I don't agree that DA2 failed in that regard. DA2 wasn't perfect by any means, and there are many areas within the narrative that I would have liked to have seen more enrichment of. But I don't see the Hawkesexual aspect of the romance paths as anything that marred the story. Much of the awareness of the Hawkesexual nature of things is within the realm of meta-gaming. If I did one single playthrough of DA2, I wouldn't know how the characters may feel about who they are or what type of person they may be attracted to, because I may not have had Hawke approach them in that manner. And even if I did flirt with all of them, I could easily see their responses as indicative of their nature as characters. Maybe they all see something in Hawke that they find attractive, and without the social barriers in place, they have no personal qualms about expressing that attraction.

I guess for me, DA2 did strike a personal chord. But I wasn't looking for it to, and certainly not for matters of sexual identity. I found the characters to be rich, to have wonderful backstories, to have great banter. And so, their tales, the sum total, were moving. They were beautifully flawed, and thus I responded to them on a human level - not as a woman, or as a lesbian, but as a person with hopes and fears, concepts of right and wrong, of loyalty. The fact that the companions did run a small gamut of diversity though, that they could engage in a relationship with Hawke that I could apply my own concept of gay or bisexual to...well, that was refreshing. Because then I could make Hawke whoever I wanted her to be.

Of course it's meta-gaming, in the same sense that literary criticism would be meta-reading!  Any creative work can only be judged from the outside.  To do otherwise is to pointlessly limit one's perspective.  For example, what can Huckleberry Finn himself tell you about the Mississippi River?  A great many things certainly, but not what really matters.

esper wrote...
Why do you assume a bisexual would adress it. I have recently found out that I am leaning a little more towards the bi-side of things than the heterosexual side. I can gurentee you that I would never mention it to potential boyfriend/girlfriends unless they directly asked. It certainly also hasn't changed an aspect of my personality that my sexuality wasn't what I thought it was. I am still an introvert person who hates social gatherings and is incredible awkward unless I have to discuss morales, games or books.

Oh no!  I don't necessarily expect any possibly bisexual character in question to deal with the issue!  Rather what I propose is that the issue be dealt with during the course of the romance narrative.  The ways to do this are limited only by the imagination, ability, and (on this issue more than most) courage of the creative team.

esper wrote...
Similary why do you expect Merrill, Fenris and even Anders to make a big deal out of it when they have more important things on their mind than sex.

I fully expect all romanceable characters to make a very big deal out of all aspects of a romantic relationship… during romance scenes and dialogue.  I'm needy that way.

esper wrote...
And I still don't see how four bi people in a group of around sex people are more unrealistic, than a group considering of dwarves, elves, mages, raiders, a city guard and a potential chantry priest. Player characters don't gather normal or realistic groups of friends, they never have and never will. 

I consider such a thing to be unusual enough to at least be worthy of address or comment.

Xilizhra wrote...
Then that's your own problem, especially when two of them aren't even human.

Humans or not we're all just people.  In humans specifically, sexual identity arises from the complex interaction between a large number of biological and environmental factors, is almost always established by the end of adolescence, and almost never changes thereafter.  If the other races of Thedas differ significantly in this regard I consider such differences worthy of at least a comment or two.

bleetman wrote...
Every character in Dragon Age is bisexual? Did I buy the wrong version? I must've bought the wrong version.

If you bought the version of DAII that cost more than £12, then yes, you did buy the wrong version.  But seriously, I meant every romanceable character.  Sorry for being unclear.

Modifié par General User, 31 janvier 2012 - 02:28 .

[Xilizhra]

Humans or not we're all just people. In humans specifically, sexual identity arises from the complex interaction between a large number of biological and environmental factors, is almost always established by the end of adolescence, and almost never changes thereafter. If the other races of Thedas differ significantly in this regard I consider such differences worthy of at least a comment or two.

I suspect elves have stronger tendencies toward bisexuality; in fact, of the elves we've seen so far in the game, most of those whose sexuality has come up at all have been solidly bisexual: Zevran, Merrill, Fenris, Jethann, Serendipity, Tallis... only Gheyna and Cammen might not be.

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

philippe willaume wrote...

If Kirkwall was like a Greek Polis, being openly Bi would be kind of unsurprising if not the norm.
...
If Kirkwall was a Spanish city in the peak of the inquisition, (or an English one during Puritanism) even openly having hetero sex for fun would be frowned upon.
...
My point is that may be Kirkwall society does not stigmatise sexual preference. 

My question is why in the world any of this is left ambiguous. They had the chance to write a fantasy world that treats sexual orientation in an interesting and unconventional way, and instead they opted to write a fantasy world in which you can choose to have sex with the gender of your choice without any understanding of how these characters are approaching the issue of sexuality in the first place.

Modifié par Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut, 30 janvier 2012 - 11:24 .

[Wulfram]

It's tough to write someone who'd have a problem with the PC being gay without making that character be seen as a collosal jerk.  edit: look at how Ashley gets written off as a racist

Also, the main issue with homosexuality in Thedas seems to be the expectation that you'll marry and have kids - which really isn't an issue for the Warden, and not much of a one for the decidedly unconventional Hawke.

Though it does come up tangentially - CE Warden has an arranged marriage and their personal orientation doesn't enter into it. Similarly MumCousland and MumHawke show little concern over their children's dalliances, but do spend some time trying to match make.

Modifié par Wulfram, 30 janvier 2012 - 11:45 .

[PHub88]

Heres what should be done. I don't care if people are gay and have nothign against it. But it did get annoying being hit on by Anders and Fenris so often just for being nice to them. A few times I was scared I might actually be in a relationship with Anders because how he keeps talking...and the damn dialogue where its likeyou can't escape without saying something you don't want to.

But yeah why not do this if they are really going to go this "sex is so important route". Make a setting before the game...chose Gay, Bi, or straight...yeah im serious. So if you pick straight then the male characters won't hit on you and their sexuality doesn't come into play. This way everyone can have what they want without anyone being bothered...Why the heck not?

[Wulfram]

You're only hit on by Anders once for being nice to him. Everyone else requires active flirting

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 janvier 2012 - 12:15 .

[whykikyouwhy]

PHub88 wrote...

Heres what should be done. I don't care if people are gay and have nothign against it. But it did get annoying being hit on by Anders and Fenris so often just for being nice to them. A few times I was scared I might actually be in a relationship with Anders because how he keeps talking...and the damn dialogue where its likeyou can't escape without saying something you don't want to.

But yeah why not do this if they are really going to go this "sex is so important route". Make a setting before the game...chose Gay, Bi, or straight...yeah im serious. So if you pick straight then the male characters won't hit on you and their sexuality doesn't come into play. This way everyone can have what they want without anyone being bothered...Why the heck not?

I don't recall Fenris making any pass at Hawke. He makes a comment about admiring him/her, but it's an ambiguous statement - nothing need be read into it. Anders only makes one leading statement, after which a player is only going down a romance path if he/she actively chooses the heart icon/flirt options over and over again.

I don't believe that Bioware is vying for a "sex is so important" perspective by offering romance paths in their games. As for a sexual identity toggle, or whatever it is you are proposing (as I'm not entirely certain) - I don't know if that would make for a fluid environment. Take for instance Isabela - if I play a female Hawke and pick the "straight" preset option at the beginning of the game (as you suggest), then wouldn't that mean that Isabela wouldn't flirt with Hawke at the end of her recruitment quest? While I may not be opting to embark on a romance with her, that flirtation is very indicative of who she is as a character - free-spirited, bawdy, ready to say something to make someone blush. Not having those types of elements would, imo, cause the game to lose some of it's flavor and lovely nuances.

You can play the game any way you choose as it is structured now. If you don't want to follow a romance, with anyone, regardless of identity or class, you don't choose the heart icon when conversing with that character. Your Hawke can be straight, bisexual, gay, etc. or you could opt to not even make that sort of declaration for your character. You have some flexibility with the role-playing.

[PHub88]

Fenris hit on me 2-3 times as well. I never once chose the Heart option for anybody besides Isabella and Aveline. Just being nice to Fenris.

[Lasien]

Wulfram wrote...

You're only hit on by Anders once for being nice to him. Everyone else requires active flirting

Actually, no. Frequently, the nice option for any character is apparently a flirt. I go back to teaching fenris how to read, and visiting merill.

Although all this is somewhat beside the point, as the icon is really just telling you how the characters are going to take your comment, not what you intend.

Also, getting back to the original topic, the sexuality just felt tacked on to me, with the exception of isabella and fenris. Understandable for fenris, and isabella was already established that way. The others don't really seem to have that aspect of their personality written into the character.

[Lasien]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

PHub88 wrote...

Heres what should be done. I don't care if people are gay and have nothign against it. But it did get annoying being hit on by Anders and Fenris so often just for being nice to them. A few times I was scared I might actually be in a relationship with Anders because how he keeps talking...and the damn dialogue where its likeyou can't escape without saying something you don't want to.

But yeah why not do this if they are really going to go this "sex is so important route". Make a setting before the game...chose Gay, Bi, or straight...yeah im serious. So if you pick straight then the male characters won't hit on you and their sexuality doesn't come into play. This way everyone can have what they want without anyone being bothered...Why the heck not?

I don't recall Fenris making any pass at Hawke. He makes a comment about admiring him/her, but it's an ambiguous statement - nothing need be read into it. Anders only makes one leading statement, after which a player is only going down a romance path if he/she actively chooses the heart icon/flirt options over and over again.

I don't believe that Bioware is vying for a "sex is so important" perspective by offering romance paths in their games. As for a sexual identity toggle, or whatever it is you are proposing (as I'm not entirely certain) - I don't know if that would make for a fluid environment. Take for instance Isabela - if I play a female Hawke and pick the "straight" preset option at the beginning of the game (as you suggest), then wouldn't that mean that Isabela wouldn't flirt with Hawke at the end of her recruitment quest? While I may not be opting to embark on a romance with her, that flirtation is very indicative of who she is as a character - free-spirited, bawdy, ready to say something to make someone blush. Not having those types of elements would, imo, cause the game to lose some of it's flavor and lovely nuances.

You can play the game any way you choose as it is structured now. If you don't want to follow a romance, with anyone, regardless of identity or class, you don't choose the heart icon when conversing with that character. Your Hawke can be straight, bisexual, gay, etc. or you could opt to not even make that sort of declaration for your character. You have some flexibility with the role-playing.

The problem is, my character is nice, and apparently being nice to people makes them want to jump your bones, not just be friends. Meh.  They could have at least added a "feeling-out" dialog for either hawke or the npcs.

[Wulfram]

Lasien wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

You're only hit on by Anders once for being nice to him. Everyone else requires active flirting

Actually, no. Frequently, the nice option for any character is apparently a flirt. I go back to teaching fenris how to read, and visiting merill.

I don't think visiting Merrill is a flirt.  Teaching Fenris to read is, which is wierd, but it's clearly marked as a flirt option so I don't see it's a big issue.

Modifié par Wulfram, 31 janvier 2012 - 12:29 .

[Masako52]

PHub88 wrote...

Heres what should be done. I don't care if people are gay and have nothign against it. But it did get annoying being hit on by Anders and Fenris so often just for being nice to them. A few times I was scared I might actually be in a relationship with Anders because how he keeps talking...and the damn dialogue where its likeyou can't escape without saying something you don't want to.

But yeah why not do this if they are really going to go this "sex is so important route". Make a setting before the game...chose Gay, Bi, or straight...yeah im serious. So if you pick straight then the male characters won't hit on you and their sexuality doesn't come into play. This way everyone can have what they want without anyone being bothered...Why the heck not?

Because... in reality we don't wear signs that proclaim our sexual orientation? And sometimes people we're not interested in hit on us? To be honest, I would be bothered if there was a "gay adjustment" meter. I'd be astronomically more offended if Bioware did that than if they went back to 2 bisexuals 2 straights, which would also bother me. Anders initiates flirting with Hawke one time (whether Hawke is a man or a woman). Fenris NEVER hits on you, so I don't know what Heart dialogue options you've been pressing. <_< Also, how is Dragon Age all "Sex is so important"? I mean, the romances are 100% optional.

(That being said I do think the Anders dialogue problem is legitimate - NOT that he hits on you first, I think that's awesome, but that in some instances it's either pick the romance option or be a little rude. That's just lazy programming. But that's another topic that's been hashed to death already.)