438 réponses à ce sujet

[Jademoon121]

GodWood wrote...

Varric's sexuality was brought up/hinted/suggested.

He does wish that the Hanged Man had cute dwarven bairmaids.

I've never able to look at him the same since.

[GodWood]

Jademoon121 wrote...
Besides, as I've said earlier, sexuality doesn't really count for much.

One's sexuality determines how they interact with others.

That's a pretty important aspect of one's character.

[Chun Hei]

What s/s critics want is for Bioware to use more resources to create lots different LIs with lots of variables and limitations and conditions. Make the romance feature not just a minor feature of the game. In short they want a DATING SIM.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Plaintiff wrote...



Befriending more than the average amount of bisexuals (whatever the "average amount" is) is far more believable than Hawke's tendency to stumble into every major conflict in Kirkwall.

I despise that argument. Yes, since there are already unrealistic elements in the game, how about we add more! It doesn't matter, the game's already unrealistic!

[Chun Hei]

GodWood wrote...

Varric's sexuality was brought up/hinted/suggested.

So you admit that the charge that everyone in DA2 is bisexual is stupid and unfounded. Thank you.

[Jademoon121]

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
Besides, as I've said earlier, sexuality doesn't really count for much.

One's sexuality determines how they interact with others.

That's a pretty important aspect of one's character.

If you plan on romancing them of course, but that's optional and has no impact on how the game turns out.

[Ponendus]

Chun Hei wrote...

What s/s critics want is for Bioware to use more resources to create lots different LIs with lots of variables and limitations and conditions. Make the romance feature not just a minor feature of the game. In short they want a DATING SIM.

Complex romance mechanics with interesting storylines, characters to relate to etc all set within the best RPG universe created (in my opinion). I would like to actually know what your objection is to this 'dating sim'?

Also where are all these dating sims everyone keeps accusing us all of wanting? If you are talking about the Anime-style flash games or 'The Sims' they are absolutely nothing like BioWare romances? Really this 'dating sim' accusation of yours has no weight does it?

[bleetman]

Generally speaking if I get involved with another person, I can reasonably assume based on the fact I'm male that they, whoever they are and whatever gender they may be, are not adverse to being with a man. I can't say I've ever really felt the need to question people in regards to their orientation as such - it should be pretty obvious already - nor do I feel they ought to explain it for some reason. This whole 'people need a justification not to be heterosexual for their orientation to be valid' thing is just making me sad.

Of course...

AlexXIV wrote...

fanservice

...I suspect I'm wasting my finger-breath anyway.

Modifié par bleetman, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:27 .

[Chun Hei]

Ponendus wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...

What S/S CRITICS (ie. players who do NOT want more s/s options in Bioware games) want is for Bioware to use more resources to create lots different LIs with lots of variables and limitations and conditions. Make the romance feature not just a minor feature of the game. In short they want a DATING SIM.

Complex romance mechanics with interesting storylines, characters to relate to etc all set within the best RPG universe created (in my opinion). I would like to actually know what your objection is to this 'dating sim'?

Also where are all these dating sims everyone keeps accusing us all of wanting? If you are talking about the Anime-style flash games or 'The Sims' they are absolutely nothing like BioWare romances? Really this 'dating sim' accusation of yours has no weight does it?

Read my statement you quoted again please. You missed the point.

Bioware romances have ALWAYS been shallow and unrealistic. ESPECIALLY DA:O. Morrigan is an evil woman who will fall in love with good two shoes Warden WHILE STILL BEING EVIL. That does not ruin immersion for s/s critics. If she were "bi" however THAT would ruin her character integrity.

EDIT: Sorry. My BF just told me that I should make it clearer that I was being sarcastic in my original post.

Modifié par Chun Hei, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[Plaintiff]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Befriending more than the average amount of bisexuals (whatever the "average amount" is) is far more believable than Hawke's tendency to stumble into every major conflict in Kirkwall.

I despise that argument. Yes, since there are already unrealistic elements in the game, how about we add more! It doesn't matter, the game's already unrealistic!

Looks like it's time for another episode of "Gibb-Shepard deliberately misunderstands everything".

It's not "unrealistic" at all for four bisexuals to be in the same friendship group. People of alternate sexuality hang out with each other all the time in the real world. Some individuals deliberately cultivate a social circle that is entirely composed of people that share their sexual preference.

Furthermore, there is plenty of in-game evidence that the general attitude to sexuality in Thedas is very different from the general attitude of modern western society, so you have absolutely no grounds on which to determine that Hawke's friendship circle and available partners would be "unrealistic" in the context of the world in which they live.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:34 .

[Chun Hei]

I like how the s/s critics say it is no longer only the "bi" romances that are unrealistic but the fact that the hero would even work with or be friends with someone who is "bisexual." Unless they have a good reason to be "bi" that is.

[GodWood]

Jademoon121 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
Besides, as I've said earlier, sexuality doesn't really count for much.

One's sexuality determines how they interact with others.

That's a pretty important aspect of one's character.

If you plan on romancing them of course but that's optional.

It should also carry over to their interactions with other characters.

[Jademoon121]

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
Besides, as I've said earlier, sexuality doesn't really count for much.

One's sexuality determines how they interact with others.

That's a pretty important aspect of one's character.

If you plan on romancing them of course but that's optional.

It should also carry over to their interactions with other characters.

How so?

[Plaintiff]

Chun Hei wrote...

I like how the s/s critics say it is no longer only the "bi" romances that are unrealistic but the fact that the hero would even work with or be friends with someone who is "bisexual." Unless they have a good reason to be "bi" that is.

"I roleplay my Hakwe to be a bigot, like me! Having to interact with bisexuals breaks my immersion!"

[Ponendus]

Chun Hei wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

Chun Hei wrote...

What S/S CRITICS (ie. players who do NOT want more s/s options in Bioware games) want is for Bioware to use more resources to create lots different LIs with lots of variables and limitations and conditions. Make the romance feature not just a minor feature of the game. In short they want a DATING SIM.

Complex romance mechanics with interesting storylines, characters to relate to etc all set within the best RPG universe created (in my opinion). I would like to actually know what your objection is to this 'dating sim'?

Also where are all these dating sims everyone keeps accusing us all of wanting? If you are talking about the Anime-style flash games or 'The Sims' they are absolutely nothing like BioWare romances? Really this 'dating sim' accusation of yours has no weight does it?

Read my statement you quoted again please. You missed the point.

Bioware romances have ALWAYS been shallow and unrealistic. ESPECIALLY DA:O. Morrigan is an evil woman who will fall in love with good two shoes Warden WHILE STILL BEING EVIL. That does not ruin immersion for s/s critics. If she were "bi" however THAT would ruin her character integrity.

I thought the point of your post was to throw out a catch-phrase statement like 'dating sim' without actually thinking about what you were saying. Everything else you just said there is drivel. People are not black and white, evil and good. It is perfectly reasonable for someone who you think is 'evil' to fall in love with someone 'good' and still retain their ambitions. In fact that is what makes the story interesting.

It doesn't ruin immersion for lots of people, s/s 'critics' or anyone. Your argument makes no sense.

Modifié par Ponendus, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:39 .

[whykikyouwhy]

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
Besides, as I've said earlier, sexuality doesn't really count for much.

One's sexuality determines how they interact with others.

That's a pretty important aspect of one's character.

If you plan on romancing them of course but that's optional.

It should also carry over to their interactions with other characters.

How often does a person's sexuality or sexual identity come up in their day-to-day interactions with other people? I know that my gayness doesn't get discussed or brought up at work or when I'm going out with friends and loved ones. And while it is an aspect of who I am, it is not the main filter with which I see the world - it's not something I bring up, or call attention to, because it's a part of my whole person. I don't separate it out. 

So I'm not sure why that would need to be the case with characters. Especially in a society where the focus is not on sexuality/sexual identity.

[TEWR]

I want to get this jotted down before my mind makes me forget it, and even now I think I'll forget a few things because my hands are shaking for some reason and I'm making mistaking grammar mistakes:

While I do not mind the companions in DAII being bisexual due to circumstance bringing them all together, I do not want this to become the norm for all of the companions in the future. At the very least, it shouldn't be the norm  for all of Thedas.

Because then the world loses all sense of believability in terms of sexual orientation, at least to me. I would rather have at least several instances of NPCs that proclaim they only like one gender and one gender only. Some flirtable with, others not. But this would establish that while the companions within the PC's group may be bisexual -- if that's done in the future -- people in Thedas are not all bisexual.

Otherwise, there is no sense that this world which is set to reflect midieval times in a different universe has any sense of conflict in sexual orientation.

"Oh my only son likes men and there's no other relative to carry on our line? That's okay. Our noble lineage doesn't need to continue."

Even in our modern society, people are apprehensive about coming forward with their sexual orientation. If everyone's bisexual and they're comfortable with it, then it's like a hive mind in terms of sexuality.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:44 .

[GodWood]

Jademoon121 wrote...
How so?

Characters like Merril and Fenris are supposedly bisexual as they'll romance a same gendered Hawke, however outside their interaction with Hawke they're never presented as characters who are interested their own gender. If I'm expected to believe that these characters are actually bisexual (and that their sexuality hasn't just been tacked on) I want their sexuality to actually visibly affect their interactions with other characters. Have them flirt with s/s characters, perv on s/s characters etc etc.

Of course having 4 bisexuals conveniently in the team is still silly to me. In my entire life I've only met 2 people who were bisexual.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Plaintiff wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Befriending more than the average amount of bisexuals (whatever the "average amount" is) is far more believable than Hawke's tendency to stumble into every major conflict in Kirkwall.

I despise that argument. Yes, since there are already unrealistic elements in the game, how about we add more! It doesn't matter, the game's already unrealistic!

Looks like it's time for another episode of "Gibb-Shepard deliberately misunderstands everything".

It's not "unrealistic" at all for four bisexuals to be in the same friendship group. People of alternate bisexuality hang out with each other all the time in the real world. Some individuals deliberately cultivate a social circle that is entirely composed of people that share their sexual preference.

Furthermore, there is plenty of in-game evidence that the general attitude to sexuality in Thedas is very different from the general attitude of modern western society, so you have absolutely no grounds on which to determine that Hawke's friendship circle what would be "unrealistic" in the context of the world in which it is set.

You were using Hawke's unrealistic escapades in an attempt to show that having bi companions is no more unrealistic than what is already in the game. And i despise it when people do that. No matter how much bolded text you throw at me, your original post still stands and i replied to it accordingly. Your attempts to justify bi socialising and other pieces of bolded text are irrelevant to what i was replying to.

And no, i will not get into an argument with you about the realism of the bisexual population in Thedas, so don't get excited.

[Jademoon121]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I want to get this jotted down before my mind makes me forget it, and even now I think I'll forget a few things because my hands are shaking for some reason and I'm making mistaking grammar mistakes:

While I do not mind the companions in DAII being bisexual due to circumstance bringing them all together, I do not want this to become the norm for all of the companions in the future. At the very least, it shouldn't be the norm or how the majority is for all of Thedas.

Because then the world loses all sense of believability in terms of sexual orientation, at least to me. I would rather have at least several instances of NPCs that proclaim they only like one gender and one gender only. Some flirtable with, others not.

Otherwise, there is no sense that this world which is set to reflect midieval times in a different universe has any sense of conflict in sexual orientation.

"Oh my only son likes men and there's no other relative to carry on our line? That's okay. Our noble line doesn't need to continue."

Even in our modern society, people are apprehensive about coming forward with their sexual orientation.

Actually...homosexuality historically has been more welcomed in the higher classes than the common folk. Really, a noble only needs to sire one son, and then he can do whatever he wants in his bedroom. Just look at Orlais.

[Chun Hei]

I support the "hero-sexual" LI in DA2. I was being sarcastic about dating sims since s/s critics love to throw the charge around about s/s supporters. Reading what THEY SAY they want is more like a dating sim than what Bioware is doing.

As for Morrigan she gets all misty with goody two shoes Warden after he gives her a mirror and says that she has not felt this way about anyone. Awwwwww. Then they go to the alienage and she ****es him out because he does not allow the Tevinter mages to slaughter his friends and family in some blood magic ritual to get some cool super powers.

Is that realistic? If Morrigan is a wishy washy though really it is the Warden who looks REALLY stupid for not getting rid of her right there.

[Ponendus]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

How often does a person's sexuality or sexual identity come up in their day-to-day interactions with other people? I know that my gayness doesn't get discussed or brought up at work or when I'm going out with friends and loved ones. And while it is an aspect of who I am, it is not the main filter with which I see the world - it's not something I bring up, or call attention to, because it's a part of my whole person. I don't separate it out. 

So I'm not sure why that would need to be the case with characters. Especially in a society where the focus is not on sexuality/sexual identity.

I think this says it all. When you start talking about what 'should' happen you get into trouble. Some simply don't have any indications in their interactions that would point to their sexuality. Everybody is different. I think the most logical course is to just accept the characters for who they are while you are playing through the game. Some will flaunt their sexuality, some won't, some will find you attractive, some won't, some you will pine for and it won't be recoprocated, some will be attracted to men and women, some to transexuals and wall murals. People are people, let them be and create your story around them.

[GodWood]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
How often does a person's sexuality or sexual identity come up in their day-to-day interactions with other people?

You misread.

Yes, it's not brought up but it does influence how you interact with other people.

[Plaintiff]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Befriending more than the average amount of bisexuals (whatever the "average amount" is) is far more believable than Hawke's tendency to stumble into every major conflict in Kirkwall.

I despise that argument. Yes, since there are already unrealistic elements in the game, how about we add more! It doesn't matter, the game's already unrealistic!

Looks like it's time for another episode of "Gibb-Shepard deliberately misunderstands everything".

It's not "unrealistic" at all for four bisexuals to be in the same friendship group. People of alternate bisexuality hang out with each other all the time in the real world. Some individuals deliberately cultivate a social circle that is entirely composed of people that share their sexual preference.

Furthermore, there is plenty of in-game evidence that the general attitude to sexuality in Thedas is very different from the general attitude of modern western society, so you have absolutely no grounds on which to determine that Hawke's friendship circle what would be "unrealistic" in the context of the world in which it is set.

You were using Hawke's unrealistic escapades in an attempt to show that having bi companions is no more unrealistic than what is already in the game. And i despise it when people do that. No matter how much bolded text you throw at me, your original post still stands and i replied to it accordingly. Your attempts to justify bi socialising and other pieces of bolded text are irrelevant to what i was replying to.

And no, i will not get into an argument with you about the realism of the bisexual population in Thedas, so don't get excited.

You think I want an argument with you?

Buddy, if I wanted to kill brain cells, I could just drink vodka and slam my head on the table.

If you don't intend to address any real points or say anything of substance, how about you quit wasting my time?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:48 .

[Jademoon121]

GodWood wrote...

Jademoon121 wrote...
How so?

Characters like Merril and Fenris are supposedly bisexual as they'll romance a same gendered Hawke, however outside their interaction with Hawke they're never presented as characters who are interested their own gender. If I'm expected to believe that these characters are actually bisexual (and that their sexuality hasn't just been tacked on) I want their sexuality to actually visibly affect their interactions with other characters. Have them flirt with s/s characters, perv on s/s characters etc etc.

Of course having 4 bisexuals conveniently in the team is still silly to me. In my entire life I've only met 2 people who were bisexual.

So by your logic, because I myself am bisexual, I have to drop it in coversation every so often to make sure that I don't confuse people? No thanks. Sexuality only affects deep, personal relationships. Me likeing guys or girls has nothing to do with how I walk, act, and talk on a day-to-day basis. Also, whether you believe it or not, bi/homosexuality is a lot more common than what most people think. And that's not considerding all the heteroflexibles and pansexuals in the world who really don't care what gender their lover is. In fact, Merrill is probably a pansexual; she's into the person, not the body.

Modifié par Jademoon121, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:50 .