438 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

[Ponendus]

Sylvianus wrote...

In this case, I can agree. If any reaction, even negative before your demands can satisfy you, then, there is no problem. That would be like Tallis, when we ask her to give us the letter, and she doesn't want for example. But according to what they are, the writing, you can not have everything you want,  because they are independent. Are you agree with that ?

Yes. I agree. We certainly can't have everything we want, but, the more the merrier!

[Ponendus]

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

I believe that same-gender romances are being added in a patch at a future time. However, I understand the disappointment of them not being there in the first place.

[HTTP 404]

I am okay with whatever bioware writers bring to the table. I don't want characters and storyline to be pidgeonholed to satisfy every group of people.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

Let's not have anything follow the TOR romances.  They're baaaaaad.  Like they make the DA romances look like masterpiecees in comparison.

[Mr.House]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

Let's not have anything follow the TOR romances.  They're baaaaaad.  Like they make the DA romances look like masterpiecees in comparison.

They are bad in your opinion.

[Red by Full Metal Jacket]

Mr.House wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

Let's not have anything follow the TOR romances.  They're baaaaaad.  Like they make the DA romances look like masterpiecees in comparison.

They are bad in your opinion.

*raises eyebrow*

You think the romances are...good? You're entitled to your opinion, but...

Modifié par Red by Full Metal Jacket, 23 janvier 2012 - 07:05 .

[ladyofpayne]

I love BI chars after Anders. The best Bi romence form David Gaider is Julien+ Nicolas From Calling - really as M+M must be, no whine and sentimentality. I don't like when BI romance become form F+M only one dialigue option, real gay- mance can't be so.

[Nejeli]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

This would require the game to feel more alive, but people could come up to the characters in the PC's group and hit on him/her, to which the companion can either flirt back or say "Sorry, I don't swing that way.

Or it could just happen in cutscenes. Maybe you see Fenris flirting with a few other guys in the Hanged Man.

Personally, I would find Fenris flirting with strangers far less belieable than him getting with a male Hawke, someone who likes (if you friend him) and respects him and who's never treated Fenris as just a slave or less than a person.

Fenris has no social skills. He doesn't flirt well with Hawke, and can barely handle his attraction and feelings for him. It takes him three years to finally admit that he wants Hawke in his life. He doesn't even flirt with Isabela. He just suggests they get together later if she can't stop thinking about it. And even in Act3 there's banter about Fenris not getting around and being like a ghost in Kirkwall. He views everyone outside their group with suspicion, and some people inside their group, and I can't see him hitting on anyone, or responding to anyone hitting on him with anything less than various degrees of anger or violence. (Also, as was brought up in the other thread, his romance was written with a male Hawke in mind, so if any part of his romance was tacked on, and I don't think that's the case, it wasn't the male Hawke one.)

Similarly with Merrill. She also has no social skills and has been incredibly sheltered, and she's spent most of her life being disliked by most of the people she knows. She was suprised that Hawke actually showed up to visit her. If I recall right, she doesn't even react to Hawke's first few flirt attempts. She never clues in on Isabela's innuendos. You think she's going to clue in to a random person hitting on her? How would that fit with her character? How would her flirting with someone fit with her character? She thinks she's unlikable!

It shouldn't be a case of how they, as bisexuals, should be acting, as it there's some standard way that bisexuals act. It shouldn't be a case of making it obvious to the player because, no, it's not alway obvious. It should be a case of how they, as characters, would act, and it's well within both their characters to be closed-off and only reach out and respond to people they know. And if Fenris was sexually abused as a slave, then it's even more fitting for him to be reluctant and suspicious about romantic or sexual interest, unless it's with people he knows and trusts.

[TEWR]

Nejeli wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

This would require the game to feel more alive, but people could come up to the characters in the PC's group and hit on him/her, to which the companion can either flirt back or say "Sorry, I don't swing that way.

Or it could just happen in cutscenes. Maybe you see Fenris flirting with a few other guys in the Hanged Man.

Personally, I would find Fenris flirting with strangers far less belieable than him getting with a male Hawke, someone who likes (if you friend him) and respects him and who's never treated Fenris as just a slave or less than a person.

Fenris has no social skills. He doesn't flirt well with Hawke, and can barely handle his attraction and feelings for him. It takes him three years to finally admit that he wants Hawke in his life. He doesn't even flirt with Isabela. He just suggests they get together later if she can't stop thinking about it. And even in Act3 there's banter about Fenris not getting around and being like a ghost in Kirkwall. He views everyone outside their group with suspicion, and some people inside their group, and I can't see him hitting on anyone, or responding to anyone hitting on him with anything less than various degrees of anger or violence. (Also, as was brought up in the other thread, his romance was written with a male Hawke in mind, so if any part of his romance was tacked on, and I don't think that's the case, it wasn't the male Hawke one.)

Similarly with Merrill. She also has no social skills and has been incredibly sheltered, and she's spent most of her life being disliked by most of the people she knows. She was suprised that Hawke actually showed up to visit her. If I recall right, she doesn't even react to Hawke's first few flirt attempts. She never clues in on Isabela's innuendos. You think she's going to clue in to a random person hitting on her? How would that fit with her character? How would her flirting with someone fit with her character? She thinks she's unlikable!

It shouldn't be a case of how they, as bisexuals, should be acting, as it there's some standard way that bisexuals act. It shouldn't be a case of making it obvious to the player because, no, it's not alway obvious. It should be a case of how they, as characters, would act, and it's well within both their characters to be closed-off and only reach out and respond to people they know. And if Fenris was sexually abused as a slave, then it's even more fitting for him to be reluctant and suspicious about romantic or sexual interest, unless it's with people he knows and trusts.

Ah good point on Fenris. What I meant to say was basically what you said in your last paragraph and I was just using Fenris as an example without really thinking about his personality.

Your last paragraph makes a lot of sense.

[Mr.House]

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Red by Full Metal Jacket wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

Let's not have anything follow the TOR romances.  They're baaaaaad.  Like they make the DA romances look like masterpiecees in comparison.

They are bad in your opinion.

*raises eyebrow*

You think the romances are...good? You're entitled to your opinion, but...

I never said that at all, as I have not completed any romances because my first character had no females to romance.

[Xewaka]

Mr.House wrote...
Clearly DA3 should follow TOR route and only have straight romances.

Dragon Age 3 needn't bother with hitting E10, like TOR had to.

[Kidd]

I am bisexual and I can't even think of any point in time where this mattered (outside of a few run-ins with homophobes). Some people have thought for long times that I am homosexual, some that I was straight, and then they learnt otherwise by me saying something contrary to their idea of my sexuality or simply them talking about me and finding they have conflicting information. As you can tell, sexual orientation does not come up all that often. So why should it for DA characters?

I don't think DA2 handles it unrealistically at all. I am bisexual but there is far more to this Kidd than a girl who can fall in love with someone regardless of their gender.

[Milady495a]

Wow, that's a lot of responses. Thank you, some of them have been really insightful. Sadly, not everybody can keep it civil, not even when giving good arguments.

Regarding the argument that Thedas is a different world than the medieval, or that it is based on the modern world, I'd like to point out that this might not have been the original plan for the game. If we consider Dragon Age II as part of a series instead of a standalone game, we must go back to DA:O and see what the writers did with the game. If you say that bisexuality could be thought as more common than in our world, or that Thedas people are more liberal, then the dialogues with Leliana and Zevran would have reflected that. In fact, I recall that Zevran asks you if what he told you about his sexuality doesn't bother you. Of course it shouldn't bother anybody! But there you have an example of this being more like the real world, where heterosexual is the norm, and therefore not very probable that everybody in Thedas is bisexual/regards bisexuality as common practice. 

I don't consider that making the companions reflect their bisexuality is a good idea, specially given their introvert personalities in the case of Merrill and Fenris. It would be tasteless to have them act bisexual just for the sake of making it obvious, I see that. 

The way Leliana and Zevran initially acknowledged their sexuality made me think about the society of Thedas and its demographics of sexual orientation as pretty similar to ours. That is why I was not convinced by a party of bisexuals (or Hawke-sexuals), because it appeared like a compromise the writers made to have everyone happy. On the one hand, that is a very philanthropic decision: nobody shall be restricted to the limits that sexual orientation usually imposes. On the other, which was my argument in the beginning, I need a very strong suspension of disbelief to accept that all of them are bisexual, because the world didn't enforce it as customary - Some people have said that there are instances of bisexuality or sexual liberation as norm, could you please provide an example? I actually don't know 

As I pointed out in the first post of the thread, I would have considered it a much better arrangement to have a bisexual-friendly world or at least add some variation to the romances between different sexes. No two affairs should be the same (MHawke/FHawke and companion), especially when there is a different sex involved.

Modifié par Milady495a, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:06 .

[ladyofpayne]

In DA 3 I hope on Orlesian BI man. Like Nicolas.

[TEWR]

I said this a few times in the last few pages, but it's more like circumstance brought all four of these bisexual people together.

Isabela crashed in Kirkwall, Merrill's clan moved to the area, Fenris decided to stay to lure out Danarius, and Anders took an active role in the Mage-Templar conflict. And all of them meet Hawke and become friends with him.

I do think there's sufficient evidence to believe that they're bisexual because of this. Fenris has no memory of his past life so one could logically assume he doesn't know which gender he prefers, if he ever preferred only one gender at all.

Merrill wasn't given enough screen time in DAO for one to ascertain what her orientation was, and even then I doubt she would've been forthcoming to her clan about it given the pressure of "MOAR elven babies!".

Isabela was already established as bisexual in DAO.

The only person that needed more elaboration for some people -- I don't really care about it myself -- is Anders. But even then, his banter with Nathaniel did suggest that at the very least he flirts with other guys.

I do find it odd how he won't talk about his relationship with Karl with a FemHawke though.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:23 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Milady495a wrote...

Regarding the argument that Thedas is a different world than the medieval, or that it is based on the modern world, I'd like to point out that this might not have been the original plan for the game. If we consider Dragon Age II as part of a series instead of a standalone game, we must go back to DA:O and see what the writers did with the game. If you say that bisexuality could be thought as more common than in our world, or that Thedas people are more liberal, then the dialogues with Leliana and Zevran would have reflected that. In fact, I recall that Zevran asks you if what he told you about his sexuality doesn't bother you. Of course it shouldn't bother anybody! But there you have an example of this being more like the real world, where heterosexual is the norm, and therefore not very probable that everybody in Thedas is bisexual/regards bisexuality as common practice. 

To address this point specifically...

Two characters inquiring if the Warden is bothered or shocked by the affairs of said characters does not, to me, imply that bisexuality cannot be the norm. Rather, it may speak to the perception those characters had of the Warden. I don't recall the exact dialogue paths that lead to those specific inquiries, but there may have been something offered in the options that would lead the companion to think "hmm, perhaps the Warden is uneasy...let me make sure."

So too, just because something is the norm doesn't mean that someone may not be uncomfortable by it, or uncertain and wary, or simply unfamiliar with it because it wasn't something that a person was exposed to based on their upbringing or environment. It might be just as shocking for the Warden that Zevran is talking openly about matters of the bedroom, regardless of who with...simply because the Warden may be a very private person, and not inclined to speak of what happens between the sheets.

[Riffuel_Raffit]

Milady495a wrote...

Regarding the argument that Thedas is a different world than the medieval, or that it is based on the modern world, I'd like to point out that this might not have been the original plan for the game. If we consider Dragon Age II as part of a series instead of a standalone game, we must go back to DA:O and see what the writers did with the game. If you say that bisexuality could be thought as more common than in our world, or that Thedas people are more liberal, then the dialogues with Leliana and Zevran would have reflected that. In fact, I recall that Zevran asks you if what he told you about his sexuality doesn't bother you. Of course it shouldn't bother anybody! But there you have an example of this being more like the real world, where heterosexual is the norm, and therefore not very probable that everybody in Thedas is bisexual/regards bisexuality as common practice.

The way same-sex relationships are viewed appears to vary from country to country.
Sticking to your example with Zevran - when he first makes a move on your male warden, you can point out that hitting on you is weird cause you´re also a guy. He starts laughing and thinks you´re joking because this seems to be a non-issue in Antiva.
There are also some references that indicate it´s pretty normal among orlaisian nobility.
But even though it appears to be rather uncommon in Ferelden, there are a few examples of same-sex couples without anyone batting an eyelid, like the affair in the human noble origin.
And of course Wade and Herren.
Always Wade and Herren...

Modifié par Valaun, 23 janvier 2012 - 12:49 .

[TEWR]

I miss Wade and Herren.

[Riffuel_Raffit]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I miss Wade and Herren.

Who doesn´t?
I hope they get a cameo somewhere... I hate the thought that they are stuck forever at the fortress in Amaranthine.
Wade´s genius needs a more animated and inspiring surrounding than a bleak fortress to develop it´s full potential.

[Plaguemaster]

There's no facepalm picture in the entire Internet to describe the discussion in this topic.

[eroeru]

Milady495a wrote...
I was much more pleased by how they handled it in DA:O.

This is what it boils down to, in my opinion.
In order to not feel bad, I view Dragon Age 2 strictly as a experimental project. Though this is some good-willed reading from my part.

[AlexXIV]

Bleh I never said sexuality is imporant for the main storyline. I said it is important for the integrity of the characters. Sure, you can reach the end of game without persueing LIs etc. I never doubted that. I am saying they screw up characters when they make 'everyone bi'. It's immersion breaking in a world you are supposed to be immersed. No they don't have to come forward and throw their sexuality at you. Hell I wouldn't feel disturbed if there were no LIs and you were left to guessing. But making everyone bi is BS, plain and simple. If only for the fact that detail seems not to be a concern for the writers. They just try to make everyone happy. Which is just as bad as leaving the writing to fans altogether.

[whykikyouwhy]

But how is the integrity of the character negatively affected if he/she is shown to be, or identifies as, bisexual? If this falls in line with the whole argument of 4 bisexuals friends/adventurers/companions/possible LIs, I would still argue that the likelihood of knowing 4 such people is not at all unrealistic for our reality, and may not be at all unrealistic for Thedas. It's just as likely, imo, as encountering a elf or a mage or a mage sympathizer or a devout follower of Andraste and having those individuals join your party. The world, be it Thedas or our own, is vast and yet can be quite small so as to bring a myriad of people together, and to have them discover (should circumstances or conversation make for that revelation) that they have a lot more in common than they might initially believe.