1482 réponses à ce sujet

[JGray]

After reading a few threads discussing the pros and cons involving Cerberus, I've decided to post a list of those things I believe Cerberus has done that qualify as a check in the 'evil' column. I encourage a pro-Cerberus player to do the same for the 'positive/good' column.

I am leaving out experiments that might be considered ethically gray such as experimenting on mindlessly rampaging rachni workers/soldiers or Thorian creepers. I'm also leaving out Project Overlord, since the ethics of experimenting on deactivated geth are gray and there's no sign that the Illusive Man or Cerberus were aware of the use of an autistic man in the experiment. One can argue, however, that Cerberus "corporate culture" encouraged the activity that led to both the destruction of Project: Overlord and the destruction of the facility holding Subject Zero. I'm also leaving out the experiments that led to the creation of the Adjutants because we don't know enough about them to know if the subjects were voluntary or not.

* Engineered "accidental" explosions that exposed large groups of humans to element zero in order to create human biotics. This also created a large number of birth defects and quite possibly cancer.

* Kidnapped a newborn baby from her mother and raised her in an isolated, scientific research facility in a manner that cannot, by any stretch of the term, be called nurturing. Other children were also brought to this facility, some rescued from slavers but others kidnapped as well. Note: I am not mentioning the torture, murder, or pit fights that too place at that facility because a case can be made that these acts were beyond Cerberus command's control.

* Experimented on an autistic human child in order to amplify her biotics. The drugs may have heightened her autism, making her incapable of living a normal life.

* Engaged in industrial espionage, sabotage of political candidates, and destructive black ops campaigns within the media.

* Assassinated a Pope with "pro-alien" leanings. Assassinated a System's Alliance MP for similar reasons. Murdered an Alliance Rear Admiral investigating them.

* Kidnapped, tortured, and experimented on Asari to better understand biotics. Very unlikely the Asari were released when experiments were done.

* Provided arms to criminal syndicates. Theoretically to allow human criminal enterprises to overcome Batarian criminal enterprises.

* Destroyed a vessel and killed all hands on board in order to assassinate an important Turian.

* Engaged in the sale and distribution of illegal drugs.

* Lured thresher maws to a human settlement. The settlement was wiped out as was most of the Alliance military unit that responded to it. A captive was taken and tortured/experimented on further.

* The kidnapping, torture, and eventual death of Paul Grayson. Purposefully forcing a drug addict to relapse and then infecting him with Reaper technology.

* The murder of Liselle, the daughter of Aria T'Loak.

[SNascimento]

Resurrected Shepard.
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Edit: * Engineered "accidental" explosions that exposed large groups of humans to element zero in order to create human biotics. This also created a large number of birth defects and quite possibly cancer.
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Wasn't this years before Cerberus even existed? 

Modifié par SNascimento, 23 janvier 2012 - 12:35 .

[Volus Warlord]

 You're trying WAAAY too hard.

[KotorEffect3]

SNascimento wrote...

Resurrected Shepard.

Then lied to him on a constant basis as well as luring him into traps

[SNascimento]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Resurrected Shepard.

Then lied to him on a constant basis as well as luring him into traps

.
And the result of this was the end of the collectors threat. 

[SNascimento]

Anyway antis, just remember when you play Mass Effect 3 that you are aboard a Cerberus vessel, with an Cerberus AI and that your own Shepard exist because of them.

[KotorEffect3]

SNascimento wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Resurrected Shepard.

Then lied to him on a constant basis as well as luring him into traps

.
And the result of this was the end of the collectors threat. 

The collector threat was ended because of shepard and crew.  I will give cerberus credit for giving shepard the resources he needed in ME 2 but that is about it.

[Skullheart]

- Resurrecting Shepard.

- Saving the coulncil from a batarian terrorist attack.

- Helping the colonies attacked by the collectors.

- Pushing the Alliance to build the Normandy to learn turian technology.

[Volus Warlord]

 Think of the research as post-maturity stem cell research. :happy:

[KotorEffect3]

technicaly I suppose I can give cerberus credit for the dlc weapons as well but that falls under resources.

[JGray]

SNascimento wrote...

Edit: * Engineered "accidental" explosions that exposed large groups of humans to element zero in order to create human biotics. This also created a large number of birth defects and quite possibly cancer.
.
Wasn't this years before Cerberus even existed? 

No, Cerberus caused the Eldfell-Ashland accident in 2170. Paul Grayson was in charge of the operation.

[Volus Warlord]

All I've to say is that if you do not strive to be above and beyond.. prepare to be cast aside.

[ZLurps]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

technicaly I suppose I can give cerberus credit for the dlc weapons as well but that falls under resources.

Oh, and I wondered how came those were so buggy...

[MisterJB]

JGray wrote...
* Engineered "accidental" explosions that exposed large groups of humans to element zero in order to create human biotics. This also created a large number of birth defects and quite possibly cancer.

But also the first human biotics. I would have preferred less destructive methods but you can't make an ommelet without cracking a few eggs.

* Experimented on an autistic human child in order to amplify her biotics. The drugs may have heightened her autism, making her incapable of living a normal life.

Speculation. You can only prove that the drugs harmed her once. And, even then, it had no lasting side effects.

* Engaged in industrial espionage, sabotage of political candidates, and destructive black ops campaigns within the media.

This is no different than what the STG or the Spectres do. Why shouldn't humanity be allowed to defend ourselves?

* Assassinated a Pope with "pro-alien" leanings.

 Wrong, they actually wanted a Pope with a forgiving attitude to the salarians so that they could form an Alliance against the turians.

 

Murdered an Alliance Rear Admiral investigating them.

Kahoku stuck his nose where it didn't belong. Protecting the experiments to create expendable shock troopers (that you have already admitted were acceptable) was more important than his life.

* Kidnapped, tortured, and experimented on Asari to better understand biotics. Very unlikely the Asari were released when experiments were done.

The asari are the most powerful race in the galaxy, they are one of humanity's greatest rivals. I feel for the asari sacrificed but we need an advantage against them. That projected allowed to stop Matriarch Eraza, a biotic supremacist, from seizing power.
Also, it's possible that they chose criminal asari.

* Provided arms to criminal syndicates. Theoretically to allow human criminal enterprises to overcome Batarian criminal enterprises.

Criminal groups kill each other. So?

* Destroyed a vessel and killed all hands on board in order to assassinate an important Turian.

The Spectres and STG also perform assassinations.

* The kidnapping, torture, and eventual death of Paul Grayson. Purposefully forcing a drug addict to relapse and then infecting him with Reaper technology.

Horrific, yes. But the Reapers are coming. We need to learn our enemy's secrets.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 janvier 2012 - 01:00 .

[KotorEffect3]

Volus Warlord wrote...

All I've to say is that if you do not strive to be above and beyond.. prepare to be cast aside.

I cast cerberus aside after I blewup the collector base.

[CaptainZaysh]

- Initiated construction of the Normandy SR1. Without it, Saren's plan would have succeeded and galactic civilisation would have been destroyed.

[KotorEffect3]

cerberus does have a snazzy logo but the alliance logo is better.

[CaptainZaysh]

- Issued Miranda that awesome catsuit.

[Volus Warlord]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

All I've to say is that if you do not strive to be above and beyond.. prepare to be cast aside.

I cast cerberus aside after I blewup the collector base.

Hahaha.. Then you destroyed a precious commodity for the war on the Reapers. Not just for Cerberus, but the Galaxy as a whole. You destroyed a means by which to fight the Reapers. 

[LordJeyl]

Skullheart wrote...

- Pushing the Alliance to build the Normandy to learn turian technology.

You do realize that this was done as an act of understanding Turian technology so that mankind would eventually dominate the galaxy. 

Cerberus isn't some group that does good deeds every now and than because they're generous. They're doing it to achieve their own goals. TIM specifically stated that Cerberus' goal is securing humanity's dominance of the galaxy. Not being a part of the galaxy or joining the council to coexist with the other species, but to be in charge.

If Cerberus did any act that was beneficial for someone else, it was only because their methods of reaching their goal was the same as those they were helping. Shepard wasn't brought back to save the galaxy for everyone, he/she was brought back as a way for Cerberus to be rid of an obstacle that stood in their way. Remember, he never told Shepard his true intentions until after the suicide mission was complete. If you have Shepard destroy the base, he orders Shepard not to and than orders Miranda (If she joined Shepard for the final battle) to stop Shepard. From his point of view, he wasn't resurrecting Shepard, he was creating a tool. He had everything in place to have Shepard work for Cerberus in order to further their goals.

Modifié par LordJeyl, 23 janvier 2012 - 01:12 .

[KotorEffect3]

Volus Warlord wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

All I've to say is that if you do not strive to be above and beyond.. prepare to be cast aside.

I cast cerberus aside after I blewup the collector base.

Hahaha.. Then you destroyed a precious commodity for the war on the Reapers. Not just for Cerberus, but the Galaxy as a whole. You destroyed a means by which to fight the Reapers. 

Yeah because I am sure cerberus would have been so ready to share that technology with the rest of the galaxy to stop the reapers....oh wait didn't TIM say something about using the base to secure Human Dominance?  It sounds like he doesn't give a vorcha's ass about the rest of the galaxy.

[Skullheart]

You know... if Cerberus never existed the whole galaxy will being harvested by the reapers.

No Ceberus = No Normandy (they encouraged the alliance to co-develop the ship with the turians)
No Normandy = No travel to Ilos (any other ship would have been destroyed by the geth ships on orbit).
No Shep traveling to ilos = Saren activates the Citadel, and critical mission failure.

[Volus Warlord]

Skullheart wrote...

You know... if Cerberus never existed the whole galaxy will being harvested by the reapers.

No Ceberus = No Normandy (they encouraged the alliance to co-develop the ship with the turians)
No Normandy = No travel to Ilos (any other ship would have been destroyed by the geth ships on orbit).
No Shep traveling to ilos = Saren activates the Citadel, and critical mission failure.

Shaddup you're disrupting my feel-goodie self-righteous paragon high ground.