1482 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

N00blet666 wrote...

Damn bro you must really like Cerberus.

The idea of it, not the organization we have now.
 

Too bad you will be forced to kill their agents

This is so ironic and I can't even say why.

 

and possibly TIM

Happily.

[Lightweight Nate]

Cerberus is a messed up organization. Sure they brought Shepard back, but they have a lot of bad history behind them.

[Skullheart]

MisterJB wrote...

Skullheart wrote...
So, it was better an attack to a random undefended colony instead? Taking more humans than they did in Horizon.

By making Horizona bait they were ready, and saved half of the colony. Losing half of the colony is better than losing a full and more populated colony.

The logic is sound but, to be fair, it was a very stupid trap.
Not warn Shepard of anything until the attack is already underway and then expect him to take out the Collectors all by himself? Yeah.
How about...warn Shepard of what is going on so he'll be nearer or on Horizon, maybe he can even convince the colonists of what will happen and there will be fewer casualties, send some ships as back up, anything at all?

I approve infoming Shepard about Horizon setted as a trap before the collector begins the attack.  But I wouldn't warn the colonists, and a move of several ships to Horizon might alert the collectors.

[TheCreeper]

atheelogos wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

People need to stop comparing Cerberus to STG and Spectres, they have government oversight and backing, Cerberus has the Illusive man, and no matter how big the Illusive man's ego is, he is not humanities government.

Government oversight for the Spectres?.... Sure they have government backing, they don't have gov oversight. Hell the council usually makes a special point to look the other way.

They can still revoke their status, Spectres have a giant leash but they still have one, Cerberus doesn't.

[DJBare]

Skullheart wrote...

So, it was better an attack to a random undefended colony instead? Taking more humans than they did in Horizon.

By making Horizona bait they were ready, and saved half of the colony. Losing half of the colony is better than losing a full and more populated colony.

Accept he forgot to warn the colonists, oops.
Nah, this was not a sacrifice to save other colonies, it's because TIM is after the reaper technology, he threw away lives for his own selfish needs.

[MisterJB]

Skullheart wrote...
I approve infoming Shepard about Horizon setted as a trap before the collector begins the attack.  But I wouldn't warn the colonists, and a move of several ships to Horizon might alert the collectors.

Alerting the Colonists might have created panic but, on the other hand, minimizing the number of them on exposed areas might not have alerted the Collectors and there would be fewer casualties.
The ships could have shown up only after Shepard has engaged the Collectors and could be used solely to cut their retreat. That is assuming they would stand a chance against the Collector Cruiser.

[Skullheart]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

So, it was better an attack to a random undefended colony instead? Taking more humans than they did in Horizon.

By making Horizona bait they were ready, and saved half of the colony. Losing half of the colony is better than losing a full and more populated colony.

Those defenses Horizon had didn't work either until Shepard arrived on the scene.

And again, all that for what? To confirm that the Collectors were working with the Reapers? Doesn't take that much to confirm that connection.

It was to confirm that the collectors had an interest in  Shepard.  And they still achieved something in Horizon instead waiting a report of another colony attacked and fully abducted.

[N00blet666]

MisterJB wrote...

N00blet666 wrote...

Damn bro you must really like Cerberus.

The idea of it, not the organization we have now.
 

Too bad you will be forced to kill their agents

This is so ironic and I can't even say why.

 

and possibly TIM

Happily.

TBH I don't think a pro human organization is a bad idea. In a way the alliance is kind of a pro human orginization. The problem with Cerberus is just the way in which they get things done. No matter what kinds of great things you do for humanity if you torture, kill and kidnap to get these things done and everyone knows this no one will want to have anything to do with you. The longer humanity and the other species coexist the less organizations like Cerberus will be approved of. The longer all these species interact togther the less different they will all seem to one another. Cerberus represents the opposite of this equal coexistance. 

[DJBare]

Skullheart wrote...

It was to confirm that the collectors had an interest in  Shepard.  And they still achieved something in Horizon instead waiting a report of another colony attacked and fully abducted.

Hope your not running for president, what a scarey thought.
I see the logic in sacrificing a few for the many, but the ends do not always justify the means, if we lose our humanity while fighting for humanity then I see no justification in TIM's actions, TIM could have replaced the colonists with his own troops, funny how that did not happen.

[ParagonForLife]

JGray wrote...



* Lured thresher maws to a human settlement. The settlement was wiped out as was most of the Alliance military unit that responded to it. A captive was taken and tortured/experimented on further.

Correct me if iam wrong but the squad that the Maw killed was Sheppards Squad at least it was for me as I picked Sole Survivor Background you go to a planet to investigate a distress signal and find it was a trap the same thing that caused the death of all of your squad afterwards you find out Cerberus was experimenting with controling Maws

Modifié par ParagonForLife, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:06 .

[DJBare]

ParagonForLife wrote...Correct me if iam wrong but the squad that the Maw killed was Sheppards Squad at least it was for me as I picked Sole Survivor Background you go to a planet to investigate a distress signal and find it was a trap the same thing that caused the death of all of your squad afterwards you find out Cerberus was experimenting with controling Maws

Yes it was Shepards squad, and there was one other survivor, Toombs, he was the one taken and experimented on.

[Gold Dragon]

Cerberus may, or may not, be a terrorist organization (and note that the fear comes not from the Council but the races themselves), but they ARE evil.

Wanting to study Thresher Maw Acid, so they destroy an entire colony?  Necessary?  Not in the slightest.  Once you know where the corpse is, just dig it up.  Study that.  It's not as if Thresher Maws blow up on death...  Akuze was totally un-necessary.  It only causes FEAR.

The Collector Base:  EVERYTHING we know (or think we know) is pure speculation at this point.  The only people in the know are prohibitted from talking by NDAs.  To save Humanity means we destroy it ourselves (A distinct POSSIBILITY, knowing Reaper Tech & Indoctrination) is not saving anyone, just changing the method of Death.  Maybe it is, maybe it is not wise to save it, but until March 6, there is no certainty, only personal belief.  DO what you think best.

If to save humanity we must destroy everything, are we truly saving anyone?

My point of view:  Cerberus is trying to destroy potential allies before giving them a chance.  It was the Citadel COUNCIL that pulled the Turians up short to end the First Contact War, and Cerberus was founded because people were AFRAID.

[dgcatanisiri]

Personally, I see Cerberus in a similar fashion to Terra Nova as it was explained in the encounter with Seracino on the Citadel post-Virmire. Understandable goals at their worst, even noble at the best. But the bigots and zealots speak louder than any other segment, and TIM himself does nothing to curb it, even contributing.

Here's my question. WHY does humanity deserve to be at the forefront of galactic civilization? And 'because we're human/the best' is not an answer.

[didymos1120]

Terra Firma. Terra Nova is a planet.

[AntiChri5]

Also, a tv show.

[N00blet666]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Personally, I see Cerberus in a similar fashion to Terra Nova as it was explained in the encounter with Seracino on the Citadel post-Virmire. Understandable goals at their worst, even noble at the best. But the bigots and zealots speak louder than any other segment, and TIM himself does nothing to curb it, even contributing.

Here's my question. WHY does humanity deserve to be at the forefront of galactic civilization? And 'because we're human/the best' is not an answer.

 

Deep down I think that we know we don't deserve it, but it takes a lot of time and suffering to learn these lessons. There are still humans alive now, in 2012 who are racist and sexist. It is possible that one day, far from now none of these things will exist. We have to learn that we are all equal. It seems that with the gift sentience comes also the curse of ignorance and self entitlment. 

[MisterJB]

dgcatanisiri wrote...
Here's my question. WHY does humanity deserve to be at the forefront of galactic civilization? And 'because we're human/the best' is not an answer.

I...don't understand the question. All species compete for power.
It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of you being a human, of your people being humans. A human will only ever be truly accepted in a human community. Oh sure, a human can befriend a turian but a human who tries to live in a turian community will always be an outsider. The reverse is also true,
So, it's a matter of convenience. You want what is best for yourself and your people and this is more easily achieved in a galaxy where humans are dominant. Humanity either joins the competion for resources or we will die or live in a galaxy where we will be seen as little more than pet that can be put down whenever the master wishes.

[Katamariguy]

yoshibb wrote...

pro-leather jackets, anti-turtleneck sweaters, etc.?

That's not mutually exclusive.

[ParagonForLife]

MisterJB wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...
Here's my question. WHY does humanity deserve to be at the forefront of galactic civilization? And 'because we're human/the best' is not an answer.

I...don't understand the question. All species compete for power.
It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of you being a human, of your people being humans. A human will only ever be truly accepted in a human community. Oh sure, a human can befriend a turian but a human who tries to live in a turian community will always be an outsider. The reverse is also true,
So, it's a matter of convenience. You want what is best for yourself and your people and this is more easily achieved in a galaxy where humans are dominant. Humanity either joins the competion for resources or we will die or live in a galaxy where we will be seen as little more than pet that can be put down whenever the master wishes.

Then by your logic the reapers shouldnt be stopped because they are doing whats best for themselfs that kind of thinking will only cause problems. Fighting over resources? do you realize that there are over 1 billion planets in our galaxy and that there are over 100 billion galaxies? If we all work together we can achive far more then we ever could alone 

[N00blet666]

MisterJB wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...
Here's my question. WHY does humanity deserve to be at the forefront of galactic civilization? And 'because we're human/the best' is not an answer.

I...don't understand the question. All species compete for power.
It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of you being a human, of your people being humans. A human will only ever be truly accepted in a human community. Oh sure, a human can befriend a turian but a human who tries to live in a turian community will always be an outsider. The reverse is also true,
So, it's a matter of convenience. You want what is best for yourself and your people and this is more easily achieved in a galaxy where humans are dominant. Humanity either joins the competion for resources or we will die or live in a galaxy where we will be seen as little more than pet that can be put down whenever the master wishes.

Eventually after enough cohabitation humans will be accepted in any community. Humans will eventually become commonplace just like every other species in the galaxy. We as sentient beings can either fight eachother and compete against each other or join together and achieve things we could never achieve on our own. I think at it's core that's what Mass Effect is all about. 

[ParagonForLife]

N00blet666 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...
Here's my question. WHY does humanity deserve to be at the forefront of galactic civilization? And 'because we're human/the best' is not an answer.

I...don't understand the question. All species compete for power.
It's not a matter of deserving. It's a matter of you being a human, of your people being humans. A human will only ever be truly accepted in a human community. Oh sure, a human can befriend a turian but a human who tries to live in a turian community will always be an outsider. The reverse is also true,
So, it's a matter of convenience. You want what is best for yourself and your people and this is more easily achieved in a galaxy where humans are dominant. Humanity either joins the competion for resources or we will die or live in a galaxy where we will be seen as little more than pet that can be put down whenever the master wishes.

Eventually after enough cohabitation humans will be accepted in any community. Humans will eventually become commonplace just like every other species in the galaxy. We as sentient beings can either fight eachother and compete against each other or join together and achieve things we could never achieve on our own. I think at it's core that's what Mass Effect is all about. 

Being Human doesnt mean you need to dominate everything in your path I dont want a future like that what whould the point be replace the reapers with humanity and become the very thing we fought so hard and lost so much to stop? We will never stop being diffrent but our diffrences are what make us strong that even though someone can be so diffrent from you but you can still see part of yourself in them and they in you and after time come to understand respect and even love them doesnt matter what color they are or what planet they call home 

Modifié par ParagonForLife, 23 janvier 2012 - 05:43 .

[MisterJB]

ParagonForLife wrote...
Then by your logic the reapers shouldnt be stopped because they are doing whats best for themselfs

The Reapers are not that different from organics. I want to stop them because they threaten me and mine but this logic is applicable to all other species out there. Or do you think that if , say, the turians find themselves in a position where they can remove the salarians and asari from the Council and gain more than they would lose by doing so, they wouldn't?
It's politics, it's how the world works.
 

If we all work together we can achive far more then we ever could alone 

No question there. Cooperation is desirable but we should always keep in mind that the aliens will always pick members of their species over ours.

N00blet666 wrote...
Eventually after enough cohabitation humans will be accepted in any community.

No, they won't. We have been living on this planet for thousands of years and we managed to separate us into nations. How would we ever cross species barriers?
 

Humans will eventually become commonplace just like every other species in the galaxy.

And you think that it's all peaceful co-existence between the other species? That there are not different  governments all competing for control?
Even on the Citadel, the supposed bastion of order and cooperation in the galaxy, there is the Council and then there are the "lesser species". Avina's words, not mine.
 

[N00blet666]

MisterJB wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...
Then by your logic the reapers shouldnt be stopped because they are doing whats best for themselfs

The Reapers are not that different from organics. I want to stop them because they threaten me and mine but this logic is applicable to all other species out there. Or do you think that if , say, the turians find themselves in a position where they can remove the salarians and asari from the Council and gain more than they would lose by doing so, they wouldn't?
It's politics, it's how the world works.
 

If we all work together we can achive far more then we ever could alone 

No question there. Cooperation is desirable but we should always keep in mind that the aliens will always pick members of their species over ours.

N00blet666 wrote...
Eventually after enough cohabitation humans will be accepted in any community.

No, they won't. We have been living on this planet for thousands of years and we managed to separate us into nations. How would we ever cross species barriers?
 

Humans will eventually become commonplace just like every other species in the galaxy.

And you think that it's all peaceful co-existence between the other species? That there are not different  governments all competing for control?
Even on the Citadel, the supposed bastion of order and cooperation in the galaxy, there is the Council and then there are the "lesser species". Avina's words, not mine.
 

 

Compared to the age of our planet humanity has barely existed at all. Like I said these things take time and they would take even more time on a galactic scale. 

[ParagonForLife]

MisterJB wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...
Then by your logic the reapers shouldnt be stopped because they are doing whats best for themselfs

The Reapers are not that different from organics. I want to stop them because they threaten me and mine but this logic is applicable to all other species out there. Or do you think that if , say, the turians find themselves in a position where they can remove the salarians and asari from the Council and gain more than they would lose by doing so, they wouldn't?
It's politics, it's how the world works.
 

If we all work together we can achive far more then we ever could alone 

No question there. Cooperation is desirable but we should always keep in mind that the aliens will always pick members of their species over ours.

N00blet666 wrote...
Eventually after enough cohabitation humans will be accepted in any community.

No, they won't. We have been living on this planet for thousands of years and we managed to separate us into nations. How would we ever cross species barriers?
 

Humans will eventually become commonplace just like every other species in the galaxy.

And you think that it's all peaceful co-existence between the other species? That there are not different  governments all competing for control?
Even on the Citadel, the supposed bastion of order and cooperation in the galaxy, there is the Council and then there are the "lesser species". Avina's words, not mine.
 

really because you clearly havent read th Codex the turians themselfs have said that they whould lose far more then they whould ever gain with the Asari and Salarians gone also we dont have nations now we have the Systems Alliance as for saying the aliens will allways choose there own what? I say agian what!? lets see for example Justicars will die to protect any innocent Turian Specter died protecting Eden Prime Alliance Navy Died protecting the citadel C-Sec died protecting every single person on the citadel the Turians Award your squad member who died there highest military honor the Turians shared military secrets to build the normandy the geth let you choose to save or kill millions of them a salarian saw the error of there ways and cured the genophage humans saved sick batarian on omega need I go on?

[MisterJB]

ParagonForLife wrote...
 really because you clearly havent read th Codex the turians themselfs have said that they whould lose far more then they whould ever gain with the Asari and Salarians

And that's the only reason the turians don't destroy the asari and the salarians, Because they can be useful.
I presented a situation where they would no longer need them.
 

also we dont have nations now we have the Systems Alliance

Now you're the one who doesn't seem to have read the codex. There are still governments on Earth, the Alliance only has authority in space.

 

Justicars will die to protect any innocent Turian Specter died protecting Eden Prime humans saved sick batarian on omega

Those are all small scale situations. Now, what if Nihlus had to choose between saving Earth or saving Pallaven? What do you figure would happen?
 
 

Alliance Navy Died protecting the citadel

Because we wanted more power for humans, not out of the goodness of our hearts.

the Turians Award your squad member who died there highest military honor

Irrelevant.
 

the Turians shared military secrets to build the normandy

Because we also shared ours. It was a mutually beneficial relationship.

the geth let you choose to save or kill millions of them

The geth don't think like organics do.

a salarian saw the error of there ways and cured the genophage
 

The genophage was not an error.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:16 .