1482 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

Armass81 wrote...

Winston Churchill once said that Democracy is the worst form of government we have, except for all the other ones that have been tried.

Yeah, and Voltaire once said that a witty saying proves nothing.

If you're looking for an objectively Right Answer to the question of government, political science can't give it to you. It's not exactly a field that's big on objectivity and Right Answers.

[Adragalus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So I'm pretty content with shooting down Cerberus clone troopers and pissing off the Illusive Man in ME3, especially since his goals have, evolved. He actually plans on gaining control of the reapers and using them to assure human dominance on a galactic scale (this was officially confirmed in the recent gameinformer magazine on the ME3 mars mission).

If that doesn't spell out evil and corrupt, then I don't know what does.

Actually, that spells out "pragmatic and smart".

Wut. Planning of gaining control of a horde of hundred, if not thousands, of hyper-advanced living machines that utterly destroyed the entire Prothean Empire, and gambling the existence of all sentient life in the entire galaxy against the desire to obtain dominance?

Yeah, that's really "smart."

[CaptainZaysh]

daqs wrote...

If you're looking for an objectively Right Answer to the question of government, political science can't give it to you. It's not exactly a field that's big on objectivity and Right Answers.

Unless you did something crazy like compared the performance of democratic versus non-democratic regimes against a set of metrics like GDP per capita, corruption rates, human rights abuses, freedom of the press, life expectancy, rates of famine, access to medical care, access to consumer goods, etc.

It takes a special kind of person to look at East vs West Germany or North vs South Korea and say, "nope, no definitive answers there."

[TobyHasEyes]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Missing the point...

 Either your point was

     - 'Desert' is an inappropriate concept in debates about galactic polictis
or
     - Whoever is strongest deserves to dominate galactic power
or
     - No matter how you assign desert, the strongest wins anyway

 If the first option, you made that point. If the second, you made that point also; I made the point that the two don't fit each other.. 

 If the third option, then that is a point that you didn't express.. and one that misses the point of the post you were replying to

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adragalus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So I'm pretty content with shooting down Cerberus clone troopers and pissing off the Illusive Man in ME3, especially since his goals have, evolved. He actually plans on gaining control of the reapers and using them to assure human dominance on a galactic scale (this was officially confirmed in the recent gameinformer magazine on the ME3 mars mission).

If that doesn't spell out evil and corrupt, then I don't know what does.

Actually, that spells out "pragmatic and smart".

Wut. Planning of gaining control of a horde of hundred, if not thousands, of hyper-advanced living machines that utterly destroyed the entire Prothean Empire, and gambling the existence of all sentient life in the entire galaxy against the desire to obtain dominance?

Yeah, that's really "smart."

If he has the means to do so (and he apparently has)...then yes, very smart.
He's not gambling anything.


Also, Cerberus is better than sliced bread, ponies and mustard combined!

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 24 janvier 2012 - 04:24 .

[Aimi]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

Unless you did something crazy like compared the performance of democratic versus non-democratic regimes against a set of metrics like GDP per capita, corruption rates, human rights abuses, freedom of the press, life expectancy, rates of famine, access to medical care, access to consumer goods, etc.

It takes a special kind of person to look at East vs West Germany or North vs South Korea and say, "nope, no definitive answers there."

Oh, I agree. Whenever threatened, however, the modern Marxist (or whatever ideology the non-democratic person tends to be) tends to flee into the refuge of the No True Scotsman, claiming irreconcilable ideological differences between his own tenets and those implemented by real-world dictators.

...well, I agree for the most part. For instance, corruption as a metric isn't particularly useful; it's pretty tough to come up with meaningful statistics for it that also reflect some sort of effect on the workings of the state. Having dealt with some econometric work on corruption in history, I've gotten the impression that either we really suck at measuring corruption or it just doesn't seem to mean a whole lot. And some of the other things you mentioned really depend much more on other variables than a measure of democracy. DPRK/RoK and DDR/BRD are pretty clean-cut, but something like PRC/India, well, isn't.

[Someone With Mass]

For a man who can't even keep his own little gang in check and have failed almost every time when he tried to gain control over other races, I'm really not optimistic when it comes to his goal of controlling the Reapers.

If we're going by his past on that one, it'll only lead to disaster for everyone. With few people that are capable of cleaning it up.

[SovereignWillReturn]

Oh...it's this thread again.

[King Minos]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Oh...it's this thread again.

Oh...it's this post again.

[Descy_]

King Minos wrote...

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

Oh...it's this thread again.

Oh...it's this post again.

Oh...here it goes again.

[mrpoultry]

No one sees it but this is what they have planned and it is working. They have everyone fooled into thinking the Reapers are the real threat but when the war is over and the galatic races have exhausted themselves.....The Elcor will strike.

[SovereignWillReturn]

This debate is 2nd in line with ME3 DLC in terms of ridiculousness.

[Descy_]

mrpoultry wrote...

No one sees it but this is what they have planned and it is working. They have everyone fooled into thinking the Reapers are the real threat but when the war is over and the galatic races have exhausted themselves.....The Elcor will strike.

Volus riding Elcors.

TEACH YOU NOT TO LET US ON THE COUNCIL!

[andy6915]

Someone With Mass wrote...

For a man who can't even keep his own little gang in check and have failed almost every time when he tried to gain control over other races, I'm really not optimistic when it comes to his goal of controlling the Reapers.

If we're going by his past on that one, it'll only lead to disaster for everyone. With few people that are capable of cleaning it up.

Yeah, let's look at his track record.

Tried to control rachni-failed
tried to control thorian creepers-failed
tried to control husks-failed
tried to control Geth-failed
tried to control those weird zombie things in Invasion comic-failed
tried to control paragon Shepard-failed

The only thing he's ever succeeded in controlling was renegade Shepard (assuming you let him have the base, which not all renegade's did). I definitely don't trust his ability to control reapers.

Modifié par andy69156915, 24 janvier 2012 - 05:58 .

[King Minos]

SovereignWillReturn wrote...

This debate is 2nd in line with ME3 DLC in terms of ridiculousness.

Your posts become more and more useless, i can't tell if your attention seeking or are you bored? Do you perhaps want a colouring book?

On topic:

I support Cerberus, their actions have a purpose and not just for sadistic pleasure.

Andy, Cerberus actually made an effort to find out what was causing the disappearence of the colonists AND fought agaisnt them. And won.

I say that is quite the success despite it was a suicide mission. Tim, organised Shepard to go on the offensive. Shepard would still be a rotting water-logged corpse.

Modifié par King Minos, 24 janvier 2012 - 06:00 .

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

For a man who can't even keep his own little gang in check and have failed almost every time when he tried to gain control over other races, I'm really not optimistic when it comes to his goal of controlling the Reapers.

When has any of this ever happened?

Also it won't lead to disaster, we know this, because the ending ending in the game is Shepard doing pretty much exactly what TIM wanted to do.

Let's see.

Lazarus station, Teltin facility, the derelict Reaper, the Ascension project, that one facility that was experimenting on Thorian creepers, the list goes on. Many of those "accidents" could have been prevented if TIM have had some decent security precautions on standby. Then there's that funny little incident with the geth in project Overlord. Recently, there's that attack on Omega.

If he's so incompetent that he can't even keep his own project in check, then why in the fiery flames of hell should I give him control over an ancient machine race that's been wiping out thousands of civilizations during millions, if not billions of years? It was bad enough when they followed a pattern. I don't think anyone needs another Reaper attack just because Timmy can't figure out how to press the stop button.

And no, a decent ending doesn't include the Reapers being under control by anyone. A decent ending would be when they're destroyed completely.

[Poison_Berrie]

King Minos wrote...
I did not mean cool as in oh wow, it's so shiny!

Cool as in what they can do with technology and science these days. The LHC is amazing, no denying that. The space station, tunnels under the ocean, cloning and possibly bring back extinct animals.

They did not need to kidnap or trick people into being experimented and dissected for those examples. No French officials or Austrian politicians were assasinated to make the building of the LHC possible. 

So the question becomes was there really no alternative for a lot of those Cerberus experiments. I think for quite a few of them, they needed not such serious breaches of ethics, S.O.P. and security.

[Descy_]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lazarus station, Teltin facility, the derelict Reaper, the Ascension project,

Whoa whoa whoa, that isn't what you were talking about.

You said Cerberus had failed in all of its plots to take over the galaxy.

When did any of those plots ever happen?

http://masseffect.wi...esearch_Station 
http://masseffect.wi...Teltin_Facility 
http://masseffect.wi...Derelict_Reaper 
http://masseffect.wi...cension_Project 

Modifié par Descy_, 24 janvier 2012 - 06:41 .

[King Minos]

Descy_ wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lazarus station, Teltin facility, the derelict Reaper, the Ascension project,

Whoa whoa whoa, that isn't what you were talking about.

You said Cerberus had failed in all of its plots to take over the galaxy.

When did any of those plots ever happen?

http://masseffect.wi...esearch_Station 
http://masseffect.wi...Teltin_Facility 
http://masseffect.wi...Derelict_Reaper 
http://masseffect.wi...cension_Project 

I believe Saphra was on about how Cerberus failed to take over the Galaxy, not the links you posted. Cerberus has not attempted to take over the galaxy.

[Descy_]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, Descy, you don't get it either.

SMW said Cerberus continually failed in its plots to "control the other races", so I asked when that happened.

All I can think of is Overlord having anything to do with that.

If you want me to argue with you about the others just say so.

Oh, just thought you were question what each of them was lol.

I havent been following the conversation, Im eating my lunch and watching some videos right now.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...


Whoa whoa whoa, that isn't what you were talking about.

You said Cerberus had failed in all of its plots to take over the galaxy.

When did any of those plots ever happen?

You just love to twist words, do you?

I said ALMOST and THE OTHER RACES, which could mean some of them, not all of them, and I don't know how you got the word "galaxy" out of that.

Rachni and geth springs to mind.

And again, why should I even consider giving them weapons of mass destruction in the for of the Reapers?