1482 réponses à ce sujet

[Aimi]

Phaedon wrote...

daqs wrote...

I approve of derailing topics onto the subject of Sea Peoples, Mykenaians, and related mythical subjects

Man, that Minotaur guy was a douchebag.

Totally ruined our rites of passage to adulthood.

"Ay caramba! How am I supposed to ride his back when he is standing up? TAUROKATHAPSIA RUINED FOREVER!"

Minoan bull-leaping is so theoretically awesome it's almost a shame Evans made it up. 

Well, "made it up" here having the meaning of "put the frescoes back together in a way that was consistent with other ANE art but unfortunately not true to the actual original frescoes themselves", anyway. 

[TheCreeper]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

But you can stop Sovereign while saving the council.

At the time you make that decision how do you know that's true?

At the time of Arrival how do you know that you can't spare the system and beat the Reapers? After all, you saved the Council and beat Sovereign.

You can't beat hundreds of reapers when your stranded in the middle of their entry point. The entire SA fifth fleet was involved in the battle of the citadel, and saving the Council cost only a few ships and a few hundred people,that was against one Reaper and a number of geth ships, there was no fleet near the alpha relay and Hundreds if not a thousand or more are coming through it, No sane shep would ever save the Relay.

[Dewart]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Well I've never met one that does other than Shepard.

If Spectres were all law-abiding nice people they wouldn't need those special law-breaking and no-accountability super-powers.

I've met three other so far. 
One was a pretty much a bastard (Saren) who did indeed not care about collateral damage (but did like to shift the blame so there's something to be said about that), the other was doing the dirty work of the Shadow Broker but it'not know how she conducted on her Spectre missions (and she was rather sloppely there with collateral damage which is in part why she failed) and the only honorable one so far seemed to be Nilhus, but he's not around long enough to get a good sense of him.

That said there are others out there and there's little need to pit Shepard against a good Spectre from a story perspective. 

I was pretty sure samara has some diologue about meeting Nihlus and she says something to the effect of trying to kill him for the code because he was attempting to kill, or had killed an unarmed innocent.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

But you can stop Sovereign while saving the council.

At the time you make that decision how do you know that's true?

At the time of Arrival how do you know that you can't spare the system and beat the Reapers? After all, you saved the Council and beat Sovereign.

Maybe I'm just too fixated on how renegade seem to argue that killing the council was better for the galaxy's politics, which I definitely disagree with it. But you're right, it was a risk.

And you know how little time there was until the Arrival. You couldn't evacuate all the colonies in two hours.

There's a difference between risk and suicide.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 24 janvier 2012 - 08:25 .

[Phaedon]

daqs wrote...
Minoan bull-leaping is so theoretically awesome it's almost a shame Evans made it up. 

Well, "made it up" here having the meaning of "put the frescoes back together in a way that was consistent with other ANE art but unfortunately not true to the actual original frescoes themselves", anyway. 

Darn.

With that rate, the Cycladic head figurines will end up being forgotten ornaments of a trendy minimalistic late 20th century restaurant. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 24 janvier 2012 - 08:28 .

[G3rman]

Political instability following the Council's death was one of the main reasons why Shepard chose to save them.

Not to mention he needed to keep the Turian councilor alive long enough to mock his air quotes.

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Yet it worked: see Jack.

Did it? All we got about an "all powerful b*tch" was in Jack's promises. Even the Purgatory cutscenes weren't something Miranda couldn't do. Anyway, if you consider that operation a success, you have pretty low standards.

Jack never fell under direct Cerberus control, potentially gets access to confidential Cerberus data, and if she survives, well, let's just say that it's bad news for Cerberus.

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

You can't beat hundreds of reapers when your stranded in the middle of their entry point.

Nope and your point is?

In Arrival what you could do is simply free and notify the galaxy that the Reapers have arrived. The war starts today instead of in six months and you don't have blood on your hands.

Of-course you aren't as prepared, however you aren't concerned with being prepared anyway. After all, you destroyed the Collector base.

So it's a win-win for you, right?

But, you wouldn't have been prepared if you had kept the Base. In fact, you would get f*cked in the ass should it have anything useful, which it logically shouldn't and it doesn't.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

"Breaking mental barriers" sounds like a very dumb excuse to torture children. It would not increase their biotics significantly as biotic potential is mostly decided from birth and imlpants. It was pointless and stupid.

Yet it worked: see Jack.

Blacklash93 wrote...

Any reason is better than that. Spectres would do it only if it was absolutely necessary.

That's a copout.

Cerberus would only do it if it were absolutely necessary.

It keeps the greater order stable and is always meant to be for the welfare of everyone and not just one small group of people.

No it doesn't and no it wasn't.

The galaxy is not stable and the Council watches out for no-one but itself.

As proof I have the krogan, the quarians, the batarians, the humans, the geth, and so on.

The Council even murders its critics like those volus who revealed the truth about the economy only to be murdered by Tela Vasir.

Jack was already born with powerful biotics and given powerful implants. That's why she was the star test subject. And even if it did have benefits for that one person, would it be worth it? How can you defend this? Even Miranda says it was a mistake.

A Spectre would do it to save lives and only if it served a greater purpose beyond self-serving motives. The only thing Cerberus did was create a small population of biotics that would end up facing discrimination and being used as weapons.

I said the Council wasn't perfect. How does that justify Cerberus brainwahsing sapient beings?

[JGray]

See, now I wish I had made this thread all about Minoan bull-leaping. Maybe their high school team could have taken on the Atlantean high school team for the all Ancient World championship amphorae.

[TheCreeper]

Saphra Deden wrote...

TheCreeper wrote...

You can't beat hundreds of reapers when your stranded in the middle of their entry point.

Nope and your point is?

In Arrival what you could do is simply free and notify the galaxy that the Reapers have arrived. The war starts today instead of in six months and you don't have blood on your hands.

Of-course you aren't as prepared, however you aren't concerned with being prepared anyway. After all, you destroyed the Collector base.

So it's a win-win for you, right?

The Alpha Relay links to a bunch of other systems, not only does the war start 6 months early it starts with the reapers in a much better postion. saving the Alpha Relay isn't just risky, it's obiviously giving the reapers so much of an advantage that victory against them because next to impossible.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

And you know how little time there was until the Arrival. You couldn't evacuate all the colonies in two hours.

You had even less time at the Battle of the Citadel.

The point isn't evacuating the colony: the point is not killing them. If you leave and the Reapers enter the system at least there is a chance that some of the colonists can escape.

There is a difference between risk and suicide and you gamble with suicide at the Battle of the Citadel if you save the Council and you'd be doing the same in Arrival if you didn't destroy the relay.

Sovereign was blocked out of the Citadel's systems. It was a risk, not guaranteed death.

And letting the Reapers through a realy that gives them full access to the galaxy? That doesn't justify saving a few colonists.

As for the bolded part. You're basically comparing risking death and choosing it.

[Aimi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

You are preaching to the choir, son. I know all of this already.

I also know that at the Battle of the Citadel the situation was even worse. That's why I didn't save the Council.

You know, I can see where you're coming from, but you're placing an awful lot of weight on the relatively uninformed opinion of Squadmate X.

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

When does it ever say this?

I answer this in my post before this one replying to Phaedon.

Regarding Miranda: I don't think her judgement should carry much weight considering she wanted to destroy the Collector base.

Read Mass Effect: Revelation sometime and get back to me on that.

The Council is horrible and to protect humanity from them Cerberus must be horrible as well. The Council has set the standard for galactic relations and it is a low one.

Ever see Jack's loyalty mission? Every other test subject was tested before her because they knew she had the most potential and they didn't want to kill her.

A well-meaning Spectre would do it for good reasons. Saren wasn't exactly expamplary for his good judgement.

I love the "The only way to combat them is to sink to their level." argument.

[HTTP 404]

more like MISdeeds! hahahahahahaha (I laugh hard at my own jokes)

[Blacklash93]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

But, you wouldn't have been prepared if you had kept the Base. In fact, you would get f*cked in the ass should it have anything useful, which it logically shouldn't and it doesn't.

How do you know any of this?

Why don't you think the Collector base would have anything useful? It was building a Reaper and studying dead Reapers has been extremely useful so far. Why would the base be any different? It ought to be more useful since now we'd have the means to see how these technologies are produced in the first place which makes them easier to understand.

Studying Reaper tech?

"I" is for "Indoctrination".