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[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

You are cherrypicking again Saphra,  I explained how it isn't unrealistic for an ex gang member to become a social worker and you ignored it.

It's a little contrived I said. She offers no hints of her eventual turn in ME1.

There is an even worse case in ME3.

KotorEffect3 wrote...

No he gave the Turians intel on ceberus and not the alliance.  If anything he helped the alliance to make diplomatic gains with the Turians

This is a waste of time.

Just promise me that you will never vote. You are too uninformed.

ROFL so when you can't argue a point you dismiss it.

[ParagonForLife]

AlexXIV wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

ALIENS is the key word.

So are the aliens just idiots or what?

Even you know Bioware is capable of bad writing. I mean look at how much attention they focus on Cerberus. You hate that, right? So if you think Bioware can screw up there you don't think they can screw up elsewhere?

You don't think a more pronounced reaction from the quarians over Legion was called for? Or when Legion was on the Citadel or Ilium or Omega?

Legion shouldn't be allowed at any of these places. My guess, fanservice. It doesn't matter to me though because I get Legion late and never take him to these places. Speaking of this, wouldn't that solve your problem as well? I mean just leave him on the Normandy. Or what do you expect? That they start shooting and you get to kill everyone?

alot of the quarians havent seen a geth and Legion is part of your crew which offers him protection if you paragon Talis trial all you have to say is you trust tali with your life and they accept that and declare her not guilty 

You can't bring active Geth to the fleet. Did you miss what the whole trial was about? I doubt they make an exception for Shepard if they wouldn't even make it for Tali or her father.

your forgetting about the fact that some wish to make peace with the geth and the whole trial was for those people who want to go to war will lose favor so yea having a walking talking geth who says he wants peace but cant trust them sorta makes an impression 

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Just promise me that you will never vote. You are too uninformed.

Saphra, all that information was about Cerberus.  At most the only thing it had to do with the Alliance was the identity of Cerberus spies.  None of that information was sensitive to the Alliance or could harm the Alliance.  Giving that information to an enemy of Cerberus cannot possibly be construed as a betrayal of the Alliance.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

ROFL so when you can't argue a point you dismiss it.

Eventually even I run out of patience. Especially when I know that if I make the effort to explain myself it will sail miles over your head anyway.

The Anderson/Turian/Cerberus/Alliance dilemma is way too complex.

Too complex for you maybe.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

ALIENS is the key word.

So are the aliens just idiots or what?

Even you know Bioware is capable of bad writing. I mean look at how much attention they focus on Cerberus. You hate that, right? So if you think Bioware can screw up there you don't think they can screw up elsewhere?

You don't think a more pronounced reaction from the quarians over Legion was called for? Or when Legion was on the Citadel or Ilium or Omega?

Aliens can be idiots and geniuses just as much as humans can. Maybe even more.

And yes, I am aware that BioWare is capable of bad writing. I just don't resort to using that "term" as much as other people do to describe a thing in the game they don't like.

As for Legion, I don't really care. The commotion would have gotten pretty old at one point and I don't think the quarians should have started a mass hysteria because of one simple geth. They reacted to his presence in a hostile manner, Shepard can intervene and either send Legion back to the Normandy or get him through. That's enough for me, because I don't need a whole mission to shift its attention and change its course because of one squadmate.

[ParagonForLife]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
Just promise me that you will never vote. You are too uninformed.

Saphra, all that information was about Cerberus.  At most the only thing it had to do with the Alliance was the identity of Cerberus spies.  None of that information was sensitive to the Alliance or could harm the Alliance.  Giving that information to an enemy of Cerberus cannot possibly be construed as a betrayal of the Alliance.

Anderson whould never help Cerberus he freaking supported you having aliens on the normandy.....

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Wait, when did Anderson betray the Alliance?  Helping the Turians attack a group that has made no secret of being an enemy to non-human species, a group that has made no secret of being an enemy of the Alliance, is not a betrayal if that's what you mean.

I could explain this but what's the point?

I'm just glad it had no effect on ME3 what-so-ever which means that entire novel was a waste of time, effort, and money.

Lord Aesir wrote...

Helena Blake becoming a social worker didn't make sense, but I got the impression she was doing more than she was telling, didn't you?

So we're both cherry pickers, eh?

When did I cherry pick?  All I mentioned was that a social worker on Omega is rather suspicious.

Your refusal to provide an explanation only reinforces the lack of validity in your arguments.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:48 .

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Aliens can be idiots and geniuses just as much as humans can. Maybe even more.

I guess you got me there.

I'm too idealistic for my own good.

Frankly, you are.

[AlexXIV]

ParagonForLife wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

ALIENS is the key word.

So are the aliens just idiots or what?

Even you know Bioware is capable of bad writing. I mean look at how much attention they focus on Cerberus. You hate that, right? So if you think Bioware can screw up there you don't think they can screw up elsewhere?

You don't think a more pronounced reaction from the quarians over Legion was called for? Or when Legion was on the Citadel or Ilium or Omega?

Legion shouldn't be allowed at any of these places. My guess, fanservice. It doesn't matter to me though because I get Legion late and never take him to these places. Speaking of this, wouldn't that solve your problem as well? I mean just leave him on the Normandy. Or what do you expect? That they start shooting and you get to kill everyone?

alot of the quarians havent seen a geth and Legion is part of your crew which offers him protection if you paragon Talis trial all you have to say is you trust tali with your life and they accept that and declare her not guilty 

You can't bring active Geth to the fleet. Did you miss what the whole trial was about? I doubt they make an exception for Shepard if they wouldn't even make it for Tali or her father.

your forgetting about the fact that some wish to make peace with the geth and the whole trial was for those people who want to go to war will lose favor so yea having a walking talking geth who says he wants peace but cant trust them sorta makes an impression 

...

[MisterJB]

Lord Aesir wrote...
 Saphra, all that information was about Cerberus.  At most the only thing it had to do with the Alliance was the identity of Cerberus spies.  None of that information was sensitive to the Alliance or could harm the Alliance.  Giving that information to an enemy of Cerberus cannot possibly be construed as a betrayal of the Alliance.

I assume this is about "Retribution"?
You're right, the info Grayson gave couldn't harm the Alliance.
However, the turians captured Cerberus moles who just so happened to also be important Alliance officers. When they are interrogating them, do you honestly believe that they will limit their questions to Cerberus? That the turians won't try to obtain sensitive Alliance information?

Modifié par MisterJB, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:51 .

[Someone With Mass]

Luc0s wrote...

Nope. Shepard is a strong elite N7 soldier. And even among the N7 soldiers he's strong, since he's either ruthless (gets the job done), or he's a war hero (managed to hold foot against an invasion) or he's a sole survivor (he alone survived the thresher maw attack against all odds). There was a reason why Shepard was chosen to become a Spectre. This reason was because of his history. Shepard is epic.

What do you think a random grunt in an alley somewhere can do against a special-trained elite N7 soldier and Spectre? Nothing.


Renegade Shepard knows his powers and he's willing to use those powers to intimidate his foes. This is a smart and realistic way to get things done from scum that normally wouldn't deal with you if you play mr. niceguy.


Also, playing Renegade 100% of the time is just dumb. My Renegade (well, more like a Renegon) Shepard doesn't flash his ciramic against every single random person he deals with. He only flashes his ciramic when he deals with low-life grunts, criminal scum or people who need to learn their place. But also, when hard and difficult decisions have to be made, my Shepard tries to be realistic and not idealistic. When it comes to "sacrificing the few to save the many", my Shepard would not hesitate to make that sacrifice. That shows that my Shepard indeed is a capable and smart Spectre.

That's why I said that most Renegade, Renegon and Paragade Shepards are smart and capable Spectres. All those Shepards are ready and able to make the difficult Renegade decisions when needed. Most of those are capable of sacrificing the few to save the many. Only Paragon Shepard who also wuss out on such decisions and always go with the Paragon decision are incredibly stupid and not Spectre-worthy.

You're giving Shepard's role and title way too much credit.

Shepard can be shanked, shot, burned and ambushed just as much as everyone else.

[Heimdall]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
 Saphra, all that information was about Cerberus.  At most the only thing it had to do with the Alliance was the identity of Cerberus spies.  None of that information was sensitive to the Alliance or could harm the Alliance.  Giving that information to an enemy of Cerberus cannot possibly be construed as a betrayal of the Alliance.

I assume this is about "Retribution"?
You're right, the info Grayson gave couldn't harm the Alliance.
However, the turians captured important Alliance officers who just so happened to be Cerberus moles. When they are interrogating them, do you honestly believe that they will limit their questions to Cerberus? That the turians won't try to obtain sensitive Alliance information?

Good grief, the Turians did not assault Alliance facilities.  They only Assaulted Cerberus facilities.  On the off chance that they were foolish enough to have their Alliance spies there, they would be obligated to turn them over to the Alliance.  It's acceptable risk.

[KotorEffect3]

Let's not forget that Morinth can fry Shepard's brain.

[Poison_Berrie]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I paid attention in my Mass Effect Lore Studies 101 class.

Real cute. You're misplaced know it all atitude has really run it's course.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

When did I cherry pick?  All I mentioned was that a social worker on Omega is rather suspicious.

Your refusal to provide an explanation only reinforces the lack of validity in your arguments.

When I said that KotorEffect said I was cherry picking. You agreed. Then you agreed with me.

Ask me nicely and I'll explain the Anderson/Betreyal thing to you.

Obviously it is my duty to help those less fortunate than myself.

And that was not cherry picking, I was refering to your tendency to ignore the explanations of others and only shout out at particular items.

I'm afraid is my duty to remedy your deficiency, so please do explain so I may begin.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I paid attention in my Mass Effect Lore Studies 101 class.

Real cute. You're misplaced know it all atitude has really run it's course.

;_;!

I thought that was clever and funny.

Seriously though: I know the Council is bad because of all the lore written about them. You can't read that stuff and come out of it thinking they are good guys. Most people probably don't give it any thought though. It's a shame because it is very well written. 

Too bad the Mass Effect series doesn't utilize it at all.

The council is neither good nor bad.  It is a gray entity.

[MisterJB]

Lord Aesir wrote...
Good grief, the Turians did not assault Alliance facilities.  They only Assaulted Cerberus facilities.  On the off chance that they were foolish enough to have their Alliance spies there, they would be obligated to turn them over to the Alliance.  It's acceptable risk.

Before the turians assaulted the Cerberus facilities, they captured and interrogated all of the people Grayson's intel confirmed to be Cerberus agents.
This was meant to ensure that they would only attack the right facilities but it's logical that the turians would also try to squeeze as much information about the Alliance as they possibly could before they had to turn the prisioners over to the humans.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I paid attention in my Mass Effect Lore Studies 101 class.

Real cute. You're misplaced know it all atitude has really run it's course.

;_;!

I thought that was clever and funny.

Seriously though: I know the Council is bad because of all the lore written about them. You can't read that stuff and come out of it thinking they are good guys. Most people probably don't give it any thought though. It's a shame because it is very well written. 

Too bad the Mass Effect series doesn't utilize it at all.

Has it occured to you than not everybody that saves the council is necessarily a fan of the council?  I didn't save the council because I like them.  I saved them because I think galactic unity is going to matter when the reapers come in full force.  And it is alot easier to unite the galaxy if Shepard and the alliance show that they can indeed be team players.

[G3rman]

Please..99% of people went back to ME1 to save the original Council to eventually be able to mock the Turian Councilor with his air quotes.

"Ah yes, the Reapers. We have since confirmed that claim."