1482 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Good grief, the Turians did not assault Alliance facilities.  They only Assaulted Cerberus facilities.  On the off chance that they were foolish enough to have their Alliance spies there, they would be obligated to turn them over to the Alliance.  It's acceptable risk.

Before the turians assaulted the Cerberus facilities, they captured and interrogated all of the people Grayson's intel confirmed to be Cerberus agents.
This was meant to ensure that they would only attack the right facilities but it's logical that the turians would also try to squeeze as much information about the Alliance as they possibly could before they had to turn the prisioners over to the humans.

Cerberus is funded by the Alliance and has many ties to it. How will you actually fight it without doing that? It's no different from what the USA are actually doing in the war against terror. If the Alliance is smart they will work with the Turians as much as possible. Like any smart government would do if they know that a supposed terror organisation is funded by powerful people in their own government. You can't get rid of Cerberus without also getting rid of supporters who don't wear the Cerberus uniform officially.

[Heimdall]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Good grief, the Turians did not assault Alliance facilities.  They only Assaulted Cerberus facilities.  On the off chance that they were foolish enough to have their Alliance spies there, they would be obligated to turn them over to the Alliance.  It's acceptable risk.

Before the turians assaulted the Cerberus facilities, they captured and interrogated all of the people Grayson's intel confirmed to be Cerberus agents.
This was meant to ensure that they would only attack the right facilities but it's logical that the turians would also try to squeeze as much information about the Alliance as they possibly could before they had to turn the prisioners over to the humans.

Did they now?  Can I see a quote?  I don't quite believe it.  It simply isn't possible for the Turians to have abducted all those people if they were high ranking and protected unless they were all far lower ranking than we are led to believe Cerberus has moles.  In which case, it is unlikely they have any information Turian intelligence is unware of.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Has it occured to you than not everybody that saves the council is necessarily a fan of the council?  I didn't save the council because I like them.  I saved them because I think galactic unity is going to matter when the reapers come in full force.  And it is alot easier to unite the galaxy if Shepard and the alliance show that they can indeed be team players.

Mmhmm. That galactic unity can't mean much if all it takes to dissolve it is the death of the Council. I also think I'll take a disorganized galaxy over a galaxy in which the Reapers invaded in 2183 and captured the Citadel.

That's just me though.

That's the thing, it isn't.  So all that is achieved by killing the Council is making the rest of the galaxy even more unhappy and unwilling to help humanity.

[ParagonForLife]

Um the Turians have the right to interogate the Cerberus agents as Cerberus has carried out terrorist attacks agianst them but they also have to turn them over to the alliance and they whould share the intel they got its how we do this on earth

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Has it occured to you than not everybody that saves the council is necessarily a fan of the council?  I didn't save the council because I like them.  I saved them because I think galactic unity is going to matter when the reapers come in full force.  And it is alot easier to unite the galaxy if Shepard and the alliance show that they can indeed be team players.

Mmhmm. That galactic unity can't mean much if all it takes to dissolve it is the death of the Council. I also think I'll take a disorganized galaxy over a galaxy in which the Reapers invaded in 2183 and captured the Citadel.

That's just me though.

Once again you miss the point.  You are assuming those of us that are against human dominance are pro-council,  that isn't the case at all.  You are assuming those of us that save the council do so because we are pro-council and once again that is not the case we save them for the sake of galactic stability.  I was not talking about concentrating on sovereign or whatever.  I was talking about our overall motivations in regard to how we deal with the council and the other races.  That is why even though I don't like the council I accept my spectre status when they offer it to me in ME 2.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...

Um the Turians have the right to interogate the Cerberus agents as Cerberus has carried out terrorist attacks agianst them but they also have to turn them over to the alliance and they whould share the intel they got its how we do this on earth

Do the turians use run-on sentences too? How about periods?

Grammar attacks, really?

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...

Um the Turians have the right to interogate the Cerberus agents as Cerberus has carried out terrorist attacks agianst them but they also have to turn them over to the alliance and they whould share the intel they got its how we do this on earth

Do the turians use run-on sentences too? How about periods?

lol got to love it when someone decides to start becoming an internet grammar enforcer.

[Poison_Berrie]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Seriously though: I know the Council is bad because of all the lore written about them. You can't read that stuff and come out of it thinking they are good guys. Most people probably don't give it any thought though. It's a shame because it is very well written. 

Too bad the Mass Effect series doesn't utilize it at all.

I know they aren't shining lights of good conduct and there's definitly some self-preservation, favoratism and just dumb decision by them, but I can't really recall anything that actually sets them as truly bad to see Cerberus as our only protection from them.
Please regall me with some examples.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I don't see how any of that follows from my comment, Kotor, but w/e.

Well you are right about one thing, you don't see.

[ParagonForLife]

Saphra Deden wrote...

ParagonForLife wrote...

Um the Turians have the right to interogate the Cerberus agents as Cerberus has carried out terrorist attacks agianst them but they also have to turn them over to the alliance and they whould share the intel they got its how we do this on earth

Do the turians use run-on sentences too? How about periods?

yea serriously dont insult my grammar when yours is wrong also you forgot to capitilze Turians

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Cerberus is funded by the Alliance and has many ties to it. How will you actually fight it without doing that?

Ever hear of Internal Affairs?

Doesn't look to me like they can deal with it. Or why didn't they do it first? The problem is if a terror organisation is linked to a government then you can't really trust the goverment much either. What makes Cerberus so persistant is that it is rooted with the Alliance. In terms of funding and probably also intelligence. So if the Turians tell the Alliance about their plans then probably Cerberus gets a warning. Just the way the US got Osama. They assassinated him without telling the government so that moles couldn't warn them.

Cerberus is really an Alliance problem. Not only because they are enemies, but also because Cerberus is a proof that something is wrong with the Alliance. Obviously the Alliance is unable to rout the trailors in their own ranks and have no intell about numers or positions of the moles. So I think it is reasonable to help the Turians even if the Alliance has to bleed for it. Because the goal is to shut down Cerberus, and that's priority. So if I was in Anderson's place I would probably have done the same. For the Alliance and for a chance of peace in the galaxy.

[ParagonForLife]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

I know they aren't shining lights of good conduct and there's definitly some self-preservation, favoratism and just dumb decision by them, but I can't really recall anything that actually sets them as truly bad to see Cerberus as our only protection from them.

Understanding how bad the Council is helps us understand why Cerberus does what it does. It gives us context.

so the fact that the council is bad gives any group the right to do anything?

[MisterJB]

Lord Aesir wrote...
Did they now?  Can I see a quote?

Page 121

"The only viable strategy was a blitz approach; simultanesouly arrest all known Cerberus operatives on the Citadel..."

It simply isn't possible for the Turians to have abducted all those people if they were high ranking and protected unless they were all far lower ranking than we are led to believe Cerberus has moles.  In which case, it is unlikely they have any information Turian intelligence is unware of.

Not kidnap, arrest.

Page 122
"Executor Palin, the had of C-Sec had served under General Oriana during his sting in the military, so he had readily agreed to create a special C-sec turian exclusive task force to aid in their efforts."

They didn't abduct them. C-sec just walked into their offices and arrested them with full authority

AlexXIV wrote...
Cerberus is funded by the Alliance and has many ties to it. How will you actually fight it without doing that?

Maybe we should rethink the whole "Fight a pro-human organization" thing.

You can't get rid of Cerberus without also getting rid of supporters who don't wear the Cerberus uniform officially.

If I wanted to get rid of Cerberus, I would do it in a way that did not place possibly important Alliance secrets in the hands of our rivals.

[KotorEffect3]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...

I know they aren't shining lights of good conduct and there's definitly some self-preservation, favoratism and just dumb decision by them, but I can't really recall anything that actually sets them as truly bad to see Cerberus as our only protection from them.

Understanding how bad the Council is helps us understand why Cerberus does what it does. It gives us context.

Except with the council it is more of a gray area with both good and bad.  There is alot of things about he council that pisses me off but at the end of the day the system does provide for galactic stability.  In the case of cerberus it is usualy just one failed unethical thing after another.  In the case of cerberus it is almost all bad.  The only good cerberus has ever done was to bring Shepard back and even then it was because TIM had his own angle and agenda.

[AlexXIV]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Did they now?  Can I see a quote?

Page 121

"The only viable strategy was a blitz approach; simultanesouly arrest all known Cerberus operatives on the Citadel..."

It simply isn't possible for the Turians to have abducted all those people if they were high ranking and protected unless they were all far lower ranking than we are led to believe Cerberus has moles.  In which case, it is unlikely they have any information Turian intelligence is unware of.

Not kidnap, arrest.

Page 122
"Executor Palin, the had of C-Sec had served under General Oriana during his sting in the military, so he had readily agreed to create a special C-sec turian exclusive task force to aid in their efforts."

They didn't abduct them. C-sec just walked into their offices and arrested them with full authority

AlexXIV wrote...
Cerberus is funded by the Alliance and has many ties to it. How will you actually fight it without doing that?

Maybe we should rethink the whole "Fight a pro-human organization" thing.

You can't get rid of Cerberus without also getting rid of supporters who don't wear the Cerberus uniform officially.

If I wanted to get rid of Cerberus, I would do it in a way that did not place possibly important Alliance secrets in the hands of our rivals.

Being pro human is fine to the point pro-human turns to anti-alien. Also, you assume you can do that. Sometimes you have to cut off an arm to save the rest of the body. It should especially not be a problem if the said arm can grow back.

[ParagonForLife]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Did they now?  Can I see a quote?

Page 121

"The only viable strategy was a blitz approach; simultanesouly arrest all known Cerberus operatives on the Citadel..."

It simply isn't possible for the Turians to have abducted all those people if they were high ranking and protected unless they were all far lower ranking than we are led to believe Cerberus has moles.  In which case, it is unlikely they have any information Turian intelligence is unware of.

Not kidnap, arrest.

Page 122
"Executor Palin, the had of C-Sec had served under General Oriana during his sting in the military, so he had readily agreed to create a special C-sec turian exclusive task force to aid in their efforts."

They didn't abduct them. C-sec just walked into their offices and arrested them with full authority

AlexXIV wrote...
Cerberus is funded by the Alliance and has many ties to it. How will you actually fight it without doing that?

Maybe we should rethink the whole "Fight a pro-human organization" thing.

You can't get rid of Cerberus without also getting rid of supporters who don't wear the Cerberus uniform officially.

If I wanted to get rid of Cerberus, I would do it in a way that did not place possibly important Alliance secrets in the hands of our rivals.

Has anyone ever heard of a Joint Operation you should google it its very common