1482 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Adragalus wrote...

Human. DOMINANCE. Not right-minded, pragmatic goals such as human security, human safety, human interests, human equality, et bloody cetera. Dominance. THAT'S my issue. Not TIMs "selfish bastardism," not saving the base or destroying it, not your much-maligned Paragade. 

Dominance is practical. Dominance is desirable. Dominance makes security, safety, and interests much easier to achieve. You shouldn't need this explained to you.

Who is safer? Someone who is powerful or someone who is weak?

Who is safer? Someone who is important or someone who is unimportant? You seem to miss the fact that there always is a bigger fish. Trying to dominate will only result in someone rebelling. You know what is safe? Building consensus, yeah like the Geth.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 25 janvier 2012 - 12:36 .

[Heimdall]

MisterJB wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
 The team was turian exclusive to avoid the human agents Cerberus likely had in C-sec, the same reason the alliance had to be cut out of the loop.

Asari, salarians?

Most of C-sec is turian or human.  Also, turians would be more likely to obey Oriana's request to keep the operation from the human members.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Who is safer? Someone who is important or someone who is unimportant? You seem to miss the fact that there always is a bigger fish.

No there isn't.

That's what the Reapers thought too. Honestly, if you want to see where domination leads to just look at the reapers. If you want this, you can just let them win you know. If this fight against the Reapers is supposed to make sense then it shouldn't end in one species dominating all others. Because that's what we had before already. We just exchange one species with the other.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

That's what the Reapers thought too.

I have yet to see a bigger fish than the Reapers.

Well metaphorically. If we beat the Reapers we are the bigger fish. Even if we are not bigger in size.

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well metaphorically. If we beat the Reapers we are the bigger fish. Even if we are not bigger in size.

No, not really.

If a venomous snake bites me and I did is the snake the "bigger fish"?

The lesson here is that smaller fish can still be dangerous, even lethal. You should respect them.

Well it is a metaphor. It is not about actual size. It is supposed to mean that nobody is safe. So yeah, what you said. I just used it because I wanted to quote Star Wars.

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Humanity as it is represented by the Systems Alliance is a member of the council.  Those humans flatly fall outside their that membership.  In fact they only settled in the terminus systems because they would be outsde that jurisditction.

That's true of Horizon but not the other colonies. In any case, the Alliance was still involved on Horizon, was it not? It also had its own teams investigating the abudctions, so don't BS me with the crap about the colonies being independent and thus not a concern.

The Alliance was concerned, but was too wrapped up in other matters and too helpless to actually do anything about it.

The alien Council just didn't care. At all.

All the colonies abducted were in the terminus systems.  That was the entire reason the alliance was not going completly nuts over it and flooding the region with warships.  Please do tell me of the colonies that were part of the alliance.  The terminus systems are outside the jurisdiction of both the council and the alliance.  The alliance chose to take an interest and manufactured an outreach program so that they could be involved there.  It was a fact finding mission.  The alliance, and likely the council, thought the attacks were slavers and pirates, and there really wasn't a great deal of evidence to contradict that.

The alliance chose to take an interest.  The council saw it as an unfortunate consequence of living in the terminus systems away from the protection of citadel security forces.  The council being aliens is irrelevant, a human council does the same thing.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 25 janvier 2012 - 12:49 .

[AlexXIV]

Saphra Deden wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

So yeah, what you said. I just used it because I wanted to quote Star Wars.

You just had to quote one of the lousy films and not one of the good ones, eh?

Truly you lack any admirable qualities. (that's sarcasm, maybe)

I like Liam Neeson. And it's his quote.

And I have tons of admirable qualities. Just that I share them with 7 billion others of my species which makes it look oridinary.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 25 janvier 2012 - 12:49 .

[Adragalus]

Saphra Deden wrote...
According to you Cerberus would be wrong to ever have an ounce of self-preservation to it. Cerberus can't continue to advance humantiy if Cerberus ceases to exist. If Cerberus seeks to empower humanity then power for Cerberus is indeed power for humanity. Same with the Alliance.

Nice try. Nowhere did I say, nor even suggest, that my view on the topic was that reactionary or oversimplified. 

Self-preservation? Sure, that's fine. I never said that Cerberus should knuckle under to every opponent, or just roll over and die. Turning me into a strawman as you continually twist my words and exaggerate my points is not helping you in the slightest.

However, the key word in this is if. "If Cerberus seeks to empower humanity then power for Cerberus is indeed power for humanity." IF Cerberus's goals continue to be largely altruistic, with the objective of assuring that humanity retains the ability to govern and decide things for itself, then yes.

If Cerberus's goals veer towards blatant self-empowerment and an increasingly isolationist and consolidated power base, this is less so power for humanity. It is power hoarded for Cerberus, for Cerberus's own end, to Cerberus's sole benefit. This is somewhat more difficult to explain away as power for all of humanity.

Modifié par Adragalus, 25 janvier 2012 - 12:53 .

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

All the colonies abducted were in the terminus systems.  That was the entire reason the alliance was not going completly nuts over it and flooding the region with warships.

Oh no, my friend, they do just that. Play Arrival before the Suicide Mission sometime.

After Horizon the Alliance sends in its fleet to protect colonies and evacuate the smaller ones.


 

Great for them.  They only did that because they knew it was something worse than a few pirates and raiders.  The colonies were still not alliance jurisdiction and not council jurisdiction.  The point stands.

I never play Arrival before the Suicide Mission, it just feels like it makes more sense afterwards.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 25 janvier 2012 - 12:55 .

[incinerator950]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

All the colonies abducted were in the terminus systems.  That was the entire reason the alliance was not going completly nuts over it and flooding the region with warships.

Oh no, my friend, they do just that. Play Arrival before the Suicide Mission sometime.

After Horizon the Alliance sends in its fleet to protect colonies and evacuate the smaller ones.


 

Yeah, and every fleet that's come into contact with the Collectors was lost.

[Peer of the Empire]

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Adragalus wrote...

Human. DOMINANCE. Not right-minded, pragmatic goals such as human security, human safety, human interests, human equality, et bloody cetera. Dominance. THAT'S my issue. Not TIMs "selfish bastardism," not saving the base or destroying it, not your much-maligned Paragade. 

Dominance is practical. Dominance is desirable. Dominance makes security, safety, and interests much easier to achieve. You shouldn't need this explained to you.

Who is safer? Someone who is powerful or someone who is weak?

Who is safer? Someone who is important or someone who is unimportant? You seem to miss the fact that there always is a bigger fish. Trying to dominate will only result in someone rebelling. You know what is safe? Building consensus, yeah like the Geth.

The real world is ruled by a tiny elite that spreads misinformation.  They seem to be doing quite well for themselves.

Who will rebel?  You?

I bet you can't even stand up to neighborhood bullies

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 25 janvier 2012 - 01:02 .

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Great for them.  They only did that because they knew it was something worse than a few pirates and raiders.

You gotta' love life as an Alliance colonist.

If it is ONLY raiders and slavers attack you then it you aren't worth defending. The only time the cavalry shows up is when mythical aliens bent on harvesting all humans to serve their galaxy leading overlords show up.

Alliance colonists get al the protection they need from pirates and raiders.  The terminus colonist were not alliance colonies.

[Eclipse_9990]

mrsph wrote...

You know those filthy turians would want to control the Reapers if they could.

Thats quite the ridiculous, and factless assumption you've got there. 

On Topic: Cerberus is obviously evil, and does not have good intentions. Its pretty amusing how much some people will try to convince themselves otherwise. Especially when the proof is being force fed down their throats. 

[AlexXIV]

Peer of the Empire wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Adragalus wrote...

Human. DOMINANCE. Not right-minded, pragmatic goals such as human security, human safety, human interests, human equality, et bloody cetera. Dominance. THAT'S my issue. Not TIMs "selfish bastardism," not saving the base or destroying it, not your much-maligned Paragade. 

Dominance is practical. Dominance is desirable. Dominance makes security, safety, and interests much easier to achieve. You shouldn't need this explained to you.

Who is safer? Someone who is powerful or someone who is weak?

Who is safer? Someone who is important or someone who is unimportant? You seem to miss the fact that there always is a bigger fish. Trying to dominate will only result in someone rebelling. You know what is safe? Building consensus, yeah like the Geth.

ROFL building consensus.  The real world is ruled by a tiny elite that spreads misinformation.  They seem to be doing quite well for themselves.  Democracy doesn't work

It doesn't work because everyone's having their own democracy and only care about their own. I'd hope at some point we have something of an all-human council. But first we'd have to give everyone the chance to see democracy for what it really is. Not perfect but better than the alternative. Which would be a dictatorship of some sort.

[TheCreeper]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Adragalus wrote...

Human. DOMINANCE. Not right-minded, pragmatic goals such as human security, human safety, human interests, human equality, et bloody cetera. Dominance. THAT'S my issue. Not TIMs "selfish bastardism," not saving the base or destroying it, not your much-maligned Paragade. 

Dominance is practical. Dominance is desirable. Dominance makes security, safety, and interests much easier to achieve. You shouldn't need this explained to you.

Who is safer? Someone who is powerful or someone who is weak?

You know being equal is a possiblity here, sure the Council wasn't doing squat about the Terminus Colonies but that's because they aren't even in the Alliance, The Missing colonies were completely outside council space.