1482 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

redbaron76 wrote...

@ Saphra Deded

What eclipse_9990 said is all prime examples of terrorism, except enslaving thorian creepers as their sentience is in high doubt. Rachni are some what sentient. And Cereberus are terrorists and traitors and danger to every race in galaxy including humans.

No, Saphra is right on this one point.  Terrorism is a very specific type of act.  They are acts designed to inspire fear in a population.  Cerberus tries to hide all it's activities from the public eye, and thus the definition of terrorist cannot be applied.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Cerberus are snakes in the grass.

[KotorEffect3]

jreezy wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Cerberus are terrorists; this is a cold hard fact, with plenty of proof to back it up. 

Give me some examples of Cerberus' "terrorist acts".

killing Kohuku.

How is killing one man a terrorist act? That would mean every murder that's ever been committed was an act of terror and that isn't true.

He is an alliance admiral that was investigating them.  Terrorism isn't always about blowing up buildings it is about sending a message in order to install fear.  And for crying out loud don't quote me out of context.  I listed more examples in that quote.

So? I just picked a specific example that didn't make sense.

You cherrypicked you mean.  And actualy that example does make sense.

If that's what you want to think. Out of all the examples you listed that was the one I felt didn't belong.

So you think trying to intimidate the alliance into looking the other way isn't terrorism?

[Eclipse_9990]

Lord Aesir wrote...
Saphra is technically right.  Terrorism requires that Cerberus be trying to incite terror in a population through acts of violence.  I'm prett sure the majority of the population doesn't even know Cerberus exists and they prefer it that way.

Murdering the Pope for liking aliens, blowing up one of the Migrants Fleets ships, and trying to intimidate the Alliance in leaving them alone by assassinating one of their Generals pretty much fits the bill.

They're Terrorists in action, and in definition. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[Volus Warlord]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Cerberus are snakes in the grass.

True. :happy:

But are all too hastily categorized as what they are not.

[AlexXIV]

For once terrorism isn't clearly defined. Especially when politicians use it. In it's most strict definition most nations of the world would have commited acts of terrorism. Speaking of it, the Council races have also commited acts that can be considered terrorism by some. So basically one can call Cerberus terrorist, but one can also call the Council so. So it doesn't really help anyone. I usually say 'supposed terrorists' to stress the fact that they are probably widely considered terrorists, but mostly because they have no legal base they act on. Like for example a government would have.

[KotorEffect3]

All I know is come March 6 I am filling every cerberus squad I run into with bullets. And until then I can go back into ME 1 and slaughter them there.

[AlexXIV]

Volus Warlord wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Cerberus are snakes in the grass.

True. :happy:

But are all too hastily categorized as what they are not.

Green snakes? I think green snakes in grass are especially tricky. For obvious reasons.

[ParagonForLife]

Lord Aesir wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Here are your examples. 

1. Luring Thresher Maws to the colony Akuze almost wiping out my Shepards squad,. Not only that but kidnapping that last squad mate, and performing insane, and brutal experiments on him for years. 

2. Luring a group of marines serving under Admiral Kohaku with a fake distress beacon to a Thresher Maw nest resulting with said marines being whiped out. 

3. Cerberus capturing, and murdering Admiral Kohaku for knowing too much. 

4. Enslaving Thorian Creepers, and Rachni to try, and create an army. 

5. Attacking, and blowing up a Quarian ship for some reason or another.

6. Assasinating the Pope who happened to have "Pro-Alien" leanings.

7. Paying slavers to steal children, and outright kidnapping them themselves to throw them in biotic death camps. 

Plus the fact that I already mentioned that the Citadel, and even the Alliance already labeled, and denounsed them as a terrorist organization? 

OK. There's my proof. Are you happy now? Of course you aren't. Go ahead, and make you're meaningless argument, and I'll get right on disproving it. 

None of that is terrorism.

 

*facepalm several times*

Saphra is technically right.  Terrorism requires that Cerberus be trying to incite terror in a population through acts of violence.  I'm prett sure the majority of the population doesn't even know Cerberus exists and they prefer it that way.

THEY KILLED POLITICAL OPPONETS!!!!! THAT IS THE FREAKING DEFINITION OF TERRORISM YOU THINK THE NEXT GUY WHO TOOK THE POPES PLACE WASENT AFRAID??? TERRORISM IS THE USE OF TERROR TO COERCE PEOPLE how stupid are you guys really omg 

Modifié par ParagonForLife, 25 janvier 2012 - 02:36 .

[Heimdall]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

What else do you call a paramilitary organization wageing war on multiple states?  I'm aware that Cerberus does not quite meet the requirements of using that term, but it's the closest term we have for what Cerberus is.

They're militants, rebels, organized criminals. Terrorists is not what they are.

None of those words quite fit.  Cerberus is more than a group of militants, that's just one branch.  Rebels fits better, but implies they are reactionary rather than a pro-active organization seeking to achieve a future goal.  Organized criminals just makes them sound like the mafia.  My point is that there is no neat term for what Cerberus is.

[KotorEffect3]

jreezy wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

So you think trying to intimidate the alliance into looking the other way isn't terrorism?

Who says they were trying to intimidate the Alliance?

I'd say killing an alliance admiral sends a pretty clear message.  I mean yes they were trying to silence him but they wer also sending a message.

[OmegaBlue0231]

AlexXIV wrote...

For once terrorism isn't clearly defined. Especially when politicians use it. In it's most strict definition most nations of the world would have commited acts of terrorism. Speaking of it, the Council races have also commited acts that can be considered terrorism by some. So basically one can call Cerberus terrorist, but one can also call the Council so. So it doesn't really help anyone. I usually say 'supposed terrorists' to stress the fact that they are probably widely considered terrorists, but mostly because they have no legal base they act on. Like for example a government would have.

Just about to post something along the same lines. And you make a great point.

[GodWood]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens,

They assassinated the pope because he was condemning the salarians for their actions against the krogan and this was hindering human/salarian relations.

Plus he's the leader of an organized institution of rape. Of course he needs to die 

and trying to intimidate the Alliance in leaving them alone, by assassinating one of their generals pretty much fits the bill. 

No, Kahoku was killed because he was going to sell Cerberus (and thus Alliance) secrets to the Shadow Broker.

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

AlexXIV wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Cerberus are snakes in the grass.

True. :happy:

But are all too hastily categorized as what they are not.

Green snakes? I think green snakes in grass are especially tricky. For obvious reasons.

Its got to be because they have long tails right? 

[Adragalus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

What else do you call a paramilitary organization wageing war on multiple states?  I'm aware that Cerberus does not quite meet the requirements of using that term, but it's the closest term we have for what Cerberus is.

They're militants, rebels, organized criminals. Terrorists is not what they are.

None of those words quite fit.  Cerberus is more than a group of militants, that's just one branch.  Rebels fits better, but implies they are reactionary rather than a pro-active organization seeking to achieve a future goal.  Organized criminals just makes them sound like the mafia.  My point is that there is no neat term for what Cerberus is.

I think it's safe to say that it is a collective of consistently immoral and criminal individuals united under a common banner of human advancement, with many different levels of consequentialism, self-interest, and tendency to do it for the evulz.

[AlexXIV]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

What else do you call a paramilitary organization wageing war on multiple states?  I'm aware that Cerberus does not quite meet the requirements of using that term, but it's the closest term we have for what Cerberus is.

They're militants, rebels, organized criminals. Terrorists is not what they are.

None of those words quite fit.  Cerberus is more than a group of militants, that's just one branch.  Rebels fits better, but implies they are reactionary rather than a pro-active organization seeking to achieve a future goal.  Organized criminals just makes them sound like the mafia.  My point is that there is no neat term for what Cerberus is.

Well rebel is relatively neat. But hardly describes what Cerberus is really all about.

[Eclipse_9990]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?

Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp ****.

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 02:39 .

[Volus Warlord]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?

Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp charismatic ****.

Charismatic? Hardly. My support for Cerberus is anything but superficial. 

Now your hatred for him, on the other hand..

[Eclipse_9990]

Edit: Oops. Double post. How silly of me.

Volus Warlord wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?

Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp charismatic ****. 

Charismatic? Hardly. My support for Cerberus is anything but superficial. 

Now your hatred for him, on the other hand..

What makes you think my feelings are superficial? My disdain for the man is not only genuine, but its rational, and the reasons for it are deeply rooted in fact, and evidence. 

Your unwavering support for Cerberus on the other hand.. I don't know.. All I know is you would make a wonderful minion. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 02:45 .

[Heimdall]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...
Saphra is technically right.  Terrorism requires that Cerberus be trying to incite terror in a population through acts of violence.  I'm prett sure the majority of the population doesn't even know Cerberus exists and they prefer it that way.

Murdering the Pope for liking aliens, blowing up one of the Migrants Fleets ships, and trying to intimidate the Alliance in leaving them alone by assassinating one of their Generals pretty much fits the bill.

They're Terrorists in action, and in definition. 

The terrorist's goal is terror, not the killing itself.  The terror caused by Cerberus operations is always a side effect of their goal.  BTW, Cerberus killed Kohaku because he was snooping and they were going to dispose of the body and leave it at that.  They weren't going to announce it to the alliance brass.

[Adragalus]

GodWood wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens,

They assassinated the pope because he was condemning the salarians for their actions against the krogan and this was hindering human/salarian relations.

Plus he's the leader of an organized institution of rape. Of course he needs to die 

and trying to intimidate the Alliance in leaving them alone, by assassinating one of their generals pretty much fits the bill. 

No, Kahoku was killed because he was going to sell Cerberus (and thus Alliance) secrets to the Shadow Broker.

I don't recall the game implying that Cerberus knew about Kahoku's deal with the Shadow Broker. From what I gathered, he was killed because he knew too much, because he had uncovered Cerberus's existence and had the capability of blowing it wide-open.

Kahoku states that Cerberus is after him now, but it's implied that the only people that knew about Kahoku's deal for information on Cerberus's whereabout in exchange for any info he may find were Kahoku, the Shadow Broker's agent, and consequentially, Shepard.

[KotorEffect3]

If the game lets me I will let Jack do the deed when we finaly meet TIM face to face.

[GodWood]

KotorEffect3 wrote...
If the game lets me I will let Jack do the deed when we finaly meet TIM face to face.

The game does not let you.

[AlexXIV]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?

Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp ****.

The funny thing is the term 'traitor'.

The Alliance represents humanity.
Shep is an alliance soldier (and Council Spectre).
The Alliance is enemy to Cerberus.
So turning against Cerberus is treason because ...

... ta-da ... TIM claims that Cerberus is humanity.

Even though Cerberus never asked humanity if they want to be represented by Cerberus.

So well I think Cerberus are the traitors. If you need to bring up the term anyway.