GodWood wrote...
The game does not let you.KotorEffect3 wrote...
If the game lets me I will let Jack do the deed when we finaly meet TIM face to face.
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Edit: Oops. Double post. How silly of me.Volus Warlord wrote...
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?
Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp charismatic ****.
Charismatic? Hardly. My support for Cerberus is anything but superficial.
Now your hatred for him, on the other hand..
What makes you think my feelings are superficial? My disdain for the man is not only genuine, but its rational, and the reasons for it are deeply rooted in fact, and evidence.
Your unwavering support for Cerberus on the other hand.. I don't know.. All I know is you would make a wonderful minion.
!
Guest_Luc0s_*
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Cerberus are terrorists; this is a cold hard fact, with plenty of proof to back it up.
Give me some examples of Cerberus' "terrorist acts".
Good god.. I never knew such a thick headed person could exist.
Here are your examples.
1. Luring Thresher Maws to the colony Akuze almost wiping out my Shepards squad,. Not only that but kidnapping that last squad mate, and performing insane, and brutal experiments on him for years.
2. Luring a group of marines serving under Admiral Kohaku with a fake distress beacon to a Thresher Maw nest resulting with said marines being whiped out.
3. Cerberus capturing, and murdering Admiral Kohaku for knowing too much.
4. Enslaving Thorian Creepers, and Rachni to try, and create an army.
5. Attacking, and blowing up a Quarian ship for some reason or another.
6. Assasinating the Pope who happened to have "Pro-Alien" leanings.
7. Paying slavers to steal children, and even kidnapping them themselves so they can throw them in biotic death camps. Where they tortured, mudered, and possibly even raped the kids there.
Plus the fact that I already mentioned that the Citadel, and even the Alliance already labeled, and denounsed them as a terrorist organization?
OK. There's my proof. Are you happy now? Of course you aren't. Go ahead, and make you're meaningless argument, and I'll get right on disproving it.
Modifié par Luc0s, 25 janvier 2012 - 02:52 .
It has been a year or so, so it may be possible my reason of hating Kahoku could have clouded my memory of Cerberus' intent.Adragalus wrote...
I don't recall the game implying that Cerberus knew about Kahoku's deal with the Shadow Broker. From what I gathered, he was killed because he knew too much, because he had uncovered Cerberus's existence and had the capability of blowing it wide-open.
Kahoku states that Cerberus is after him now, but it's implied that the only people that knew about Kahoku's deal for information on Cerberus's whereabout in exchange for any info he may find were Kahoku, the Shadow Broker's agent, and consequentially, Shepard.
Lord Aesir wrote...
The terrorist's goal is terror, not the killing itself. The terror caused by Cerberus operations is always a side effect of their goal. BTW, Cerberus killed Kohaku because he was snooping and they were going to dispose of the body and leave it at that. They weren't going to announce it to the alliance brass.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Saphra is technically right. Terrorism requires that Cerberus be trying to incite terror in a population through acts of violence. I'm prett sure the majority of the population doesn't even know Cerberus exists and they prefer it that way.
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens, blowing up one of the Migrants Fleets ships, and trying to intimidate the Alliance in leaving them alone by assassinating one of their Generals pretty much fits the bill.
They're Terrorists in action, and in definition.
Luc0s wrote...
Okay, first, lets make absolutely clear what "terrorism" really means:
Terrorism = using terror and fear as your main tool to achieve your goals. A terrorists inflicts fear upon his opponent to force his opponent to meet the demands that the terrorist made.
So, now that we know the definition of terrorism, lets look at your "proof":
1. Not terrorism, because there is no terror used and there is no opponent forced meet certain demands.
2. Same. Not terrorism.
3. Same. Not terrorism. Kahoku became a liablity, so they ridded of him. But no terror was inflicted and no opponent was forced to meet certain demands.
4. Not terrorism, because there is no terror used and there is no opponent forced meet certain demands.
5. Not terrorism, but a rescue mission. This would be terrorism if the attack was organised to inflict fear upon the quarians. However, fear was not the goal of the attack. The goal of the attack was to rescue Gillian Grayson from her kidnappers. so, not terrorism.
6. Not terrorism, because the assassination was a secret and Cerberus never claimed deed. No fear was inflicted and Cerberus actually did humanity a great favor. No terrorism.
7. Was all this done to inflict fear and terror upon an opponent to force the opponent to meet a certain demand? Nope. So again, no terrorism.
So, 1 to 7, all: NO TERRORISM! I declare your claim that Cerberus is terroris officially as: DEBUNKED
NEXT!
Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 02:59 .
I can tell you how he dies if you like.KotorEffect3 wrote...
either you are making an assumption or you are listing spoilers from the leak. Neither of which is cool.
AlexXIV wrote...
The funny thing is the term 'traitor'.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?
Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp ****.
The Alliance represents humanity.
Shep is an alliance soldier (and Council Spectre).
The Alliance is enemy to Cerberus.
So turning against Cerberus is treason because ...
... ta-da ... TIM claims that Cerberus is humanity.
Even though Cerberus never asked humanity if they want to be represented by Cerberus.
So well I think Cerberus are the traitors. If you need to bring up the term anyway.
Did you miss my post or are you now just deliberately lying?Eclipse_9990 wrote...
. 2. Murdering a Pope for openly being cool with aliens, to try and send a message that says.
"Hey humanity! This guy was a fan of the bug eyed freaks! If you people know any better you had better not agree with this dude! Or we're coming after you next. SUCKAS!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!! :devil:"
GodWood wrote...
Did you miss my post or are you now just deliberately lying?Eclipse_9990 wrote...
. 2. Murdering a Pope for openly being cool with aliens, to try and send a message that says.
"Hey humanity! This guy was a fan of the bug eyed freaks! If you people know any better you had better not agree with this dude! Or we're coming after you next. SUCKAS!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!! :devil:"
Volus Warlord wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
The funny thing is the term 'traitor'.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?
Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp ****.
The Alliance represents humanity.
Shep is an alliance soldier (and Council Spectre).
The Alliance is enemy to Cerberus.
So turning against Cerberus is treason because ...
... ta-da ... TIM claims that Cerberus is humanity.
Even though Cerberus never asked humanity if they want to be represented by Cerberus.
So well I think Cerberus are the traitors. If you need to bring up the term anyway.
And the Alliance is largely a figurehead for the Council. And the Council is run by races that either do not care for or openly hate humanity. Turians as a whole are not benevolent. Asari, the gentle genociders, are genetic parasites. Salarians have already crippled another race so they could maintain control. Even if you killed the old Council, the new one is just as bad.
So, by serving those that would cast down humanity for any number of reasons, the Alliance is the traitor. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 03:04 .
The Council is run by 4 species, one of them being human. And the Alliance is probably based on a legal system and the government is elected. Also I don't see how the actions of the Council would qualify as 'treason' against humanity unless they were comitted on humanity. That they committed genocide on krogans is irrelevant for humanity. Actually if they didn't do it Earth may as well be a krogan planet by now.Volus Warlord wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
The funny thing is the term 'traitor'.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?
Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp ****.
The Alliance represents humanity.
Shep is an alliance soldier (and Council Spectre).
The Alliance is enemy to Cerberus.
So turning against Cerberus is treason because ...
... ta-da ... TIM claims that Cerberus is humanity.
Even though Cerberus never asked humanity if they want to be represented by Cerberus.
So well I think Cerberus are the traitors. If you need to bring up the term anyway.
And the Alliance is largely a figurehead for the Council. And the Council is run by races that either do not care for or openly hate humanity. Turians as a whole are not benevolent. Asari, the gentle genociders, are genetic parasites. Salarians have already crippled another race so they could maintain control. Even if you killed the old Council, the new one is just as bad.
So, by serving those that would cast down humanity for any number of reasons, the Alliance is the traitor.
It was only a page ago but I'll post it again just for you.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
No. I didn't even see your post. I didn't even know you were apart of this discussion.
GodWood wrote...
They assassinated the pope because he was condemning the salarians for their actions against the krogan and this was hindering human/salarian relations.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens,Plus he's the leader of an organized institution of rape. Of course he needs to die
GodWood wrote...
It was only a page ago but I'll post it again just for you.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
No. I didn't even see your post. I didn't even know you were apart of this discussion.GodWood wrote...
They assassinated the pope because he was condemning the salarians for their actions against the krogan and this was hindering human/salarian relations.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens,Plus he's the leader of an organized institution of rape. Of course he needs to die
Well political assassination can be considered terrorism. No matter how good your reasons are. Especially if you want to make a point as to why the target had to die in an attempt to subdue a certain political opinion.GodWood wrote...
It was only a page ago but I'll post it again just for you.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
No. I didn't even see your post. I didn't even know you were apart of this discussion.GodWood wrote...
They assassinated the pope because he was condemning the salarians for their actions against the krogan and this was hindering human/salarian relations.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens,Plus he's the leader of an organized institution of rape. Of course he needs to die
AlexXIV wrote...
Well political assassination can be considered terrorism. No matter how good your reasons are. Especially if you want to make a point as to why the target had to die in an attempt to subdue a certain political opinion.GodWood wrote...
It was only a page ago but I'll post it again just for you.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
No. I didn't even see your post. I didn't even know you were apart of this discussion.GodWood wrote...
They assassinated the pope because he was condemning the salarians for their actions against the krogan and this was hindering human/salarian relations.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Murdering the Pope for liking aliens,Plus he's the leader of an organized institution of rape. Of course he needs to die
AlexXIV wrote...
The Council is run by 4 species, one of them being human. And the Alliance is probably based on a legal system and the government is elected. Also I don't see how the actions of the Council would qualify as 'treason' against humanity unless they were comitted on humanity. That they committed genocide on krogans is irrelevant for humanity. Actually if they didn't do it Earth may as well be a krogan planet by now.Volus Warlord wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
The funny thing is the term 'traitor'.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Are we still arguing with the xenophilic traitors to their own flesh and blood?
Hey I'd rather be a xenophile, then spend my days sucking The Illusive Man's limp ****.
The Alliance represents humanity.
Shep is an alliance soldier (and Council Spectre).
The Alliance is enemy to Cerberus.
So turning against Cerberus is treason because ...
... ta-da ... TIM claims that Cerberus is humanity.
Even though Cerberus never asked humanity if they want to be represented by Cerberus.
So well I think Cerberus are the traitors. If you need to bring up the term anyway.
And the Alliance is largely a figurehead for the Council. And the Council is run by races that either do not care for or openly hate humanity. Turians as a whole are not benevolent. Asari, the gentle genociders, are genetic parasites. Salarians have already crippled another race so they could maintain control. Even if you killed the old Council, the new one is just as bad.
So, by serving those that would cast down humanity for any number of reasons, the Alliance is the traitor.
Guest_Luc0s_*
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Quarian shenanigans: How do you know it was a rescue mission? Got a source?
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
As for the other stuff. If its not terrorism then what is it in you're definition?
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
...kills a Pope for liking aliens(You mentioned that this did humanity a favor. I would LOVE to see your reasoning for this.)
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Why kind of Organization is this Aesir? Please tell me. I DO so wish to learn!
Volus Warlord wrote...
Dur dur dur Council is run by 4 races, 3 of which are neutral or bad, so its okay dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Krogan weren't perfect, so murdering them by the millions is okay and is by no means a precendent dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Alliance is elected so they will obviously act in the best interest of the people for both the short and long term dur dur dur
Cmon now. Wake up.
Luc0s wrote...
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Quarian shenanigans: How do you know it was a rescue mission? Got a source?
Kahlee Sanders kidnapped Gillian Grayson, the daughter of Paul Grayson, a Cerberus operative.
Kahlee Sanders took the kidnapped Gillian Grayson to the quarian migrant fleet. Kahlee Sanders told everything to the quarians, so they knew exactly what was going on.
When Paul Grayson infiltrated the migrant fleet, the quarians knew EXACTLY what was going on. The were well aware that Paul Grayson came to rescue his daughter from his kidnappers.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
As for the other stuff. If its not terrorism then what is it in you're definition?
Black operations, paramilitairy operations and covert operations.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
...kills a Pope for liking aliens(You mentioned that this did humanity a favor. I would LOVE to see your reasoning for this.)
The pope did not like aliens, the pope was talking trash about the genophage. He demanded that the krogans were cured from their genophage and the pope said all kind of bad stuff about the salarians, who created the genophage.
Because of the pope, humanities relationship with the salarians was in danger. And not only with the salarians, but the rest of Council space too. All the council races agreed that the genophage was the right thing to do. The pope was very vocal about this disagreement. He was pretty much rubbing the entire galactic civilisation the wrong way. The pope's words could jeopardize humanities relationships with the other species, especially the salarians. So Cerberus dealt with it, since nobody else did a thing.
And if you honestly think this pope liked aliens, you're sadly mistaken. The pope was in fact a supporter of Terra Firma, you know, that very fun "earth first, away with the aliens" political party.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Why kind of Organization is this Aesir? Please tell me. I DO so wish to learn! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]
Who/what is Aesir?
Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 03:18 .
Well I didn't say it's perfect. But better than Cerberus.Volus Warlord wrote...
Dur dur dur Council is run by 4 races, 3 of which are neutral or bad, so its okay dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Krogan weren't perfect, so murdering them by the millions is okay and is by no means a precendent dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Alliance is elected so they will obviously act in the best interest of the people for both the short and long term dur dur dur
Cmon now. Wake up.
Killing someone for 'speaking their mind' is not terrorism. It can be if their other extra factors to it but on it's own it is not.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Okay. Even if this is the reason. Its still Terrorism. They basically killed the dude for speaking his mind.
In your eyes. Me? I'd rather not hamper relations with the salarians but each to their own.Btw. Its still not justified.
Modifié par GodWood, 25 janvier 2012 - 03:21 .
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Dur dur dur Council is run by 4 races, 3 of which are neutral or bad, so its okay dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Krogan weren't perfect, so murdering them by the millions is okay and is by no means a precendent dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Alliance is elected so they will obviously act in the best interest of the people for both the short and long term dur dur dur
Cmon now. Wake up.
Yeah like human are saints. Get real. All of the species are neutral, all of them.
Guest_Luc0s_*
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
As for the Quarian thing you have a source? Like something you can link to me? But if you're right there are still plenty of factors, frankly I would want to know why they kidnapped her in the first place, but if you're right about this, then you're right. Whatever.
GodWood wrote...
It can be if their other extra factors to it but on it's own it is not.
Volus Warlord wrote...
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
Volus Warlord wrote...
Dur dur dur Council is run by 4 races, 3 of which are neutral or bad, so its okay dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Krogan weren't perfect, so murdering them by the millions is okay and is by no means a precendent dur dur dur
Dur dur dur Alliance is elected so they will obviously act in the best interest of the people for both the short and long term dur dur dur
Cmon now. Wake up.
Yeah like human are saints. Get real. All of the species are neutral, all of them.
Turians=Neutral? NO
The hatred for humanity is strong in the race.
Asari=Neutral? NO
Once again, genetic parasites. Their existance assure humanity a slow, sweet destruction.
Salarians=Neutral? MAYBE
Probably the most powerful in the long term of the four. They have shown the capability to rather remorselessly compromise other races. Nothing says they will not do so to humanity. Nothing.
Humans=Saints? NO!
Never did I claim ANYTHING along those lines. Never. You fabricated it. If Cerberus was a bunch of feel-goody saints I'd hate them. But I do feel humanity is responsible for humanity. Is it not?
Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 25 janvier 2012 - 03:30 .
People want to have the right of free speech. They just sometimes don't want that other people have it too.Eclipse_9990 wrote...
GodWood wrote...
It can be if their other extra factors to it but on it's own it is not.
I'm curious. What are the other factors?
Is it okay to kill a person trying to expose police corruption? Is it alright to gundown a dude trying to speak for equal rights? Is it totally justified to cap a ****er who's spewing racial slurs?
Man.. A lot of you guys really hate free speech don't you?
Guest_Luc0s_*
Eclipse_9990 wrote...
GodWood wrote...
It can be if their other extra factors to it but on it's own it is not.
I'm curious. What are the other factors?
Modifié par Luc0s, 25 janvier 2012 - 03:32 .
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