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[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why would he even try to deny something so redicolous? 
An accusation so stupid, so brainless, deserves no reply. Only someone as epicly stupid as Shepard could even think of a stupid plan like that.

This is rather funny, seeing as his response to Shepard asking him if he's planning on creating a Human Reaper is basically TIM saying "You know I'd go to achieve my goals". He's not denying it, or changing the subject. He is answering. With "Why not?"

We've already proven making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.
Not something TIM would do. It's simply too impractical.

And nothing TIM said is confirmation fo your redicolous suspicions.

Tbh the Reapers themselves seem rather impractical. Just think that they go dormant for 50000 years everytime they wipe out civilisations for centuries. I guess they are not the most efficient life from around. Or machines. But ... I guess they had their reasons to become who they are and whatever these reasons are they may be good enough for TIM doing the same. It's hard to argue about the logic of a certain behaviour if we don't know the reasoning behind it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
We've already proven making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.
Not something TIM would do. It's simply too impractical.

And nothing TIM said is confirmation fo your redicolous suspicions.

Tbh the Reapers themselves seem rather impractical. Just think that they go dormant for 50000 years everytime they wipe out civilisations for centuries. I guess they are not the most efficient life from around. Or machines. But ... I guess they had their reasons to become who they are and whatever these reasons are they may be good enough for TIM doing the same. It's hard to argue about the logic of a certain behaviour if we don't know the reasoning behind it.

True to a point. But to get reaper tech there is no need to re-create a reaper.
As I said - it's horribly impractical and inefficient. Why would anyone want to build a human reaper? there simply ins't any sensible reason to do so, when you can simply build other stuff more efficiently.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
We've already proven making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.
Not something TIM would do. It's simply too impractical.

And nothing TIM said is confirmation fo your redicolous suspicions.

Tbh the Reapers themselves seem rather impractical. Just think that they go dormant for 50000 years everytime they wipe out civilisations for centuries. I guess they are not the most efficient life from around. Or machines. But ... I guess they had their reasons to become who they are and whatever these reasons are they may be good enough for TIM doing the same. It's hard to argue about the logic of a certain behaviour if we don't know the reasoning behind it.

True to a point. But to get reaper tech there is no need to re-create a reaper.
As I said - it's horribly impractical and inefficient. Why would anyone want to build a human reaper? there simply ins't any sensible reason to do so, when you can simply build other stuff more efficiently.

That's a question you'd have to ask a Reaper.

I mean they were going to build one for some reason.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 27 janvier 2012 - 05:28 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
True to a point. But to get reaper tech there is no need to re-create a reaper.
As I said - it's horribly impractical and inefficient. Why would anyone want to build a human reaper? there simply ins't any sensible reason to do so, when you can simply build other stuff more efficiently.

That's a question you'd have to ask a Reaper.

I mean they were going to build one for some reason.

No, you misunderstand.
Not ineffective for a reaper (that is how the "procreate" after all). For us.

There's no need to build a repaer when you can build a normal spaceship that has reaper shields, repaer armor, reaprs guns, and so on. It's effectively just as powerfull as a reaper....without needed million humans and having control issues.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Saphra Deden wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Also, I realize that Shepard's arguments for destroying the base in-game boil down to the ethics of using the technology that killed so many people.  While seemingly ridiculous, there is a legitmate reason for that stance. One of the reason research derived from the unethical experimentation on people (and sometimes animals) is viewed as "tainted", is because by using that research, you are (whether you believe it or not) condoning the method used to attain those results.

Shepard's argument is that, if you use the Base, you're condoning the rather nasty and gruesome death/experimentation of the colonists by the Collectors to obtain your answers.  I won't deny that isn't a somewhat silly argument to make when the fate of the Galaxy is at state,

So if you admit that this is silly why the hell are you bringing it up? It's ridiculous and you know it. You know what else though? It's only slightly more ridiculous than destroying the base because you fear humanity becoming the dominant power in the galaxy.

Am I the only one recalling Morodins loyalty mission? Where the moral were REVERSED and saving "corrupt" data is a paragon decision?

Oh Shepard, you raving hypocrite....

[DJBare]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Here's how it goes down: when I hear an intelligent, reasonable, logical argument for destroying the Collector base I will admit it. I will then say that is as valid as keeping it. To date I have never heard such an argument.

So I will not just accept "Both are equally valid" on principal.

A logical argument for destroying the base?, how about a moral one?, your LI ending up in one of those pods with TIM threatening to melt them down into dna slush, or the most obvious, TIM filling those pods with humans and aliens alike for experiments to see what kind of hybrid he can come up with, to use logic, TIM always deny's knowledge of illegal experiements, but you know he is going to put a science team on the base, we've already witnessed what the cerberus science teams are capable of whether TIM deny's it or not.

[Yuoaman]

We already knew that.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DJBare wrote...
A logical argument for destroying the base?, how about a moral one?, your LI ending up in one of those pods with TIM threatening to melt them down into dna slush, or the most obvious, TIM filling those pods with humans and aliens alike for experiments to see what kind of hybrid he can come up with, to use logic, TIM always deny's knowledge of illegal experiements, but you know he is going to put a science team on the base, we've already witnessed what the cerberus science teams are capable of whether TIM deny's it or not.

When did that happen? <_<
I mean, by your logic, how about I justify killing Tali, because she MIGHT start a war with the Geth?

You are awfully sure TIM would use those pods - despite it being a inefficient and stupid thing, and despite having no proof.

[DJBare]

Saphra Deden wrote...
No, I'm not interested in those.

What you mean is you don't have an argument, which is fair enough, but either way it obviously does not matter, we already know TIM is going to betray Shepard in ME3, and if Shep handed over the base to TIM, then there is going to be some major consequences.

I should state I play both paragon and renegade, but I have no illusions the **** is gonna hit the fan for my renegade.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DJBare wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...
No, I'm not interested in those.

What you mean is you don't have an argument,

No, she means she's not interested.
Emotoinaly driven decisions have no place in such serious situations.

And you don't even have a moral high-ground to hold. How is gambling with the lives of the entire galaxy "moral"?
Face it - the CB is the best source of reaper tech and understanding.
there is no plan to fight the reapers. Standard military victory is impossible.

And you blow the base up...because you're squemish. And you call that moral course of action?

[Yuoaman]

Paragons blow it up because when there are people like TIM out there, the base can and will be used again for nefarious purposes.

[DJBare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, she means she's not interested.
Emotoinaly driven decisions have no place in such serious situations.

I knew it!, you're a reaper!

[Lotion Soronarr]

Yuoaman wrote...

Paragons blow it up because when there are people like TIM out there, the base can and will be used again for nefarious purposes.

Assuming we surive...maybe...
Now I'd rather survive and have to deal wiht TIM ,then not survive and not have to deal with TIM.

But then again..you are perfectly fine wiht giving the base to the Council. What's your gurantee they won't use it for nefarious purposes?

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I've attempted to prove 

FTFY

making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.

Sounds exactly something like TIM would consider. Looking at his organization's track record.

Not something TIM would do. It's simply too impractical.

It is not, seeing as you don't actually need the organic component of the Reaper to make it functional, and his intentions are the ones in question. I said that given the opportunity, he'd grow his own fleet of Reapers. He's completely ruthless, and he would also like to secure Cerberus  "dominance from the Reapers and beyond"

And nothing TIM said is confirmation fo your redicolous suspicions.

"You are completely ruthless, next thing I know you'll be wanting to grow your own Reaper."
"My goal is to save humanity from the Reapers. At any cost, I have never hidden that from you."

"If we use the Base, we'll be doing exactly what the Collectors did."
"An alien couldn't understand the risk for humanity."

af·fir·ma·tion  (fr-mshn)n.1. The act of affirming or the state of being affirmed; assertion.2. Something declared to be true; a positive statement or judgment.3. Law A solemn declaration given in place of a sworn statement by a person who conscientiously objects to taking an oath.

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:10 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...
I got nothing

I know.

making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.

Sounds exactly something like TIM would consider. Looking at his organization's track record.

Hahahaha...no.
Try again with a sensible argument.

Not something TIM would do. It's simply too impractical.

It is not, seeing as you don't actually need the organic component of the Reaper to make it functional, and his intentions are the ones in question. I said that given the opportunity, he'd grow his own fleet of Reapers. He's completely ruthless, and he would also like to secure Cerberus  "dominance from the Reapers and beyond"

What? What friggin drugs are you taking?
Yes you do need the organic component. Without the organic component, it's NOT a reaper. It's just a very advanced ship - and there's nothing morally wrong with building ships.

And nothing TIM said is confirmation fo your redicolous suspicions.

"You are completely ruthless, next thing I know you'll be wanting to grow your own Reaper."
"My goal is to save humanity from the Reapers. At any cost, I have never hidden that from you."

That's no a confirmation of him wanting to build a reaper.. Leave that fantasy world of yours.
He's confirming his goal is to save humanity. You are paranoid htat the way he MIGHT choose to do so is not something you approve of, so you destroy the best chance the galxy has at fighting the reapers. For it offends your tender sensibilities.

The galaxy needs to be saved from the reapers far far more than it needs your messed-up morals.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 27 janvier 2012 - 09:06 .

[dgcatanisiri]

He's confirming his goal is to save humanity. You are paranoid htat the way he MIGHT choose to do so is not something you approve of, so you destroy the best chance the galxy has at fighting the reapers. For it offends your tender sensibilities.

The galaxy needs to be saved from the reapers far far more than it needs your messed-up morals.

WHY do people believe that the Collector base full of Reaper technology, which is consistantly shown to indoctrinate anyone who studies it, let alone uses it, is the key to stopping the Reapers? The Reapers have been using their technology for millions of years. Everything that the Citadel races utilize is based upon technology that the Reapers left for them to use, which then means that species evolve to follow the paths that they want. There have even been hints in the story that this is the better alternative - Soveriegn says that the Reapers left the mass effect technology for sapients to find and follow the paths the Reapers desire, Matriarch Aethyta got the blue laughed off her ass by the complacent leaders for suggesting designing new technologies (anything that the people shown to be hiding from the truth of the Reapers disagree with is worth listening to) and Legion says that following their path, not a predetermined one is what the geth strive to attain.

[incinerator950]

The only Reaper tech that should be in the Collector Base is the Larval Reaper, some navigation equipment and IFFs instrument data, and whatever the Collectors needed to do their business.

As for the Station itself, its a Collector Base, not a Reaper Base. There was only enough Reaper Tech in that base to do experiments like the Adjulents (sp?) and the experiments to Grayson.

[DJBare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
That's no a confirmation of him wanting to build a reaper.. Leave that fantasy world of yours.
He's confirming his goal is to save humanity. You are paranoid htat the way he MIGHT choose to do so is not something you approve of, so you destroy the best chance the galxy has at fighting the reapers. For it offends your tender sensibilities.

The galaxy needs to be saved from the reapers far far more than it needs your messed-up morals.

Just tell us your not running for president or anything, that would be scary.
TIM, a control freak, what does a reaper ship do, oh that's right, it controls, you cannot believe for one moment that TIM's goals are noble, though I'm beginning to think your arguing just for the sake of it now, it's pretty well established that TIM is going to betray Shepard and humanity.

Modifié par DJBare, 28 janvier 2012 - 06:48 .

[Yakko77]

SNascimento wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

Resurrected Shepard.

Then lied to him on a constant basis as well as luring him into traps

.
And the result of this was the end of the collectors threat. 

The goal of this was the hope that Shep would ultimately help Cerberus attain human dominance and more importantly Cerberus dominance (TIM is very upfront about that ultimate goal in the end).  Beating the Collectors and ultimately the Reapers was just a means to a end.  It was hoped Shep would eliminate any and all competition, nothing more.

TIM and by connection Cerberus (with the exception of certain individuals, like many if not most of the SR2 crew) are NOT THE GOOD GUYS!!!

P
E
R
I
O
D
!!!

[incinerator950]

"Good Guy" is a funny term to use. Protagonists is better, but you're right. Bioware already confirmed Cerberus is now an enemy again.

[Yakko77]

incinerator950 wrote...

"Good Guy" is a funny term to use. Protagonists is better, but you're right. Bioware already confirmed Cerberus is now an enemy again.

"Good guy" might be the wrong term but considering all the Cerberus apologists on this forum they might as well be the "good guys" to many here which is lunacy at best.