1482 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

ME3 forums! So nope.

Doesn't matter. Discussion is about the validity of the CB decision.

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I wouldn't give that gun to a stranger who just walked in a room. Who knows what he will do with it.

This isn't some random stranger. You've had an entire game to get to know the Illusive Man and Cerberus. If you still think they can't be trusted I want to know why. What did they do in ME2 that made you doubt their motives?

I think most of you are just genre savvy and don't know how to role-play.

There is a grissly bear outside of your cabin. You are locked in with that stranger you mentioned. There is a loaded rifle over the fireplace. The stranger says he is familiar with guns and asks for the rifle.

Do you give it to him?

I do know how to RP.

Problem is that these are just the comments you give to people: "OMG METAGAEMING, YOU DON'T KNOW TO RP." that makes them so hostile at you. Because you are insulting them and trying to rile them up.

And nope, I'd use the gun. Because who knows, maybe he'll blast me after the bear. I'm familiar with guns already. And when there would be other people I know and trust who could use that gun too, why give it to the stranger?

[Arppis]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

ME3 forums! So nope.

Doesn't matter. Discussion is about the validity of the CB decision.

Yep and you can take ME3 info in account of that. It's not in character discussion we are having. So metagaming claims are just BS here. We need to take everything in account, not just what you 3 dictate.

[Izhalezan]

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is a grissly bear outside of your cabin. You are locked in with that stranger you mentioned. There is a loaded rifle over the fireplace. The stranger says he is familiar with guns and asks for the rifle.

Do you give it to him?

Why is he too lazy to get it himself? is the bear bashing the door? one of us has to hold the door while the other gets the gun..... in which case I'd have him go grab it. Unless I know how to shoot as well, then its up to a coin toss.

[Arppis]

Izhalezan wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

There is a grissly bear outside of your cabin. You are locked in with that stranger you mentioned. There is a loaded rifle over the fireplace. The stranger says he is familiar with guns and asks for the rifle.

Do you give it to him?

Why is he too lazy to get it himself? is the bear bashing the door? one of us has to hold the door while the other gets the gun..... in which case I'd have him go grab it. Unless I know how to shoot as well, then its up to a coin toss.

Plus in this example, there is no other options like there would have been if the writers would have taken them in account.

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

.
Problem is that these are just the comments you give to people: "OMG METAGAEMING, YOU DON'T KNOW TO RP." that makes them so hostile at you. Because you are insulting them and trying to rile them up.

I'm not trying to rile them up I'm pointing out a fallacy of their argument.

It only riles them up because they're stuck-up.

Arppis wrote...

And nope, I'd use the gun. Because who knows, maybe he'll blast me after the bear.

Paranoid much?

At least you are being honest though, so that's good.

Here's some helpful advice though: Paranoid people aren't that great at building alliances and trust...

I'm not paranoid, I was just assuming we are talking about known terrorist here.

[Izhalezan]

Arppis wrote...


And nope, I'd use the gun. Because who knows, maybe he'll blast me after the bear. I'm familiar with guns already. And when there would be other people I know and trust who could use that gun too, why give it to the stranger?

Wouldn't the stranger think that as well?

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I'm not paranoid, I was just assuming we are talking about known terrorist here.

The man isn't a known terrorist. He'd just a man you haven't seen before.

You know the Illusive Man better than you know this man. While the Illusive Man may be infamous he has also been helpful.

Who created experiments and killed Alliance people, seems to be completely ruthless about his deeds and doesn't mind extremests in his group. Yep, he's been helpful alright, but there is always a catch.

The thing about the example is that it isn't very smiliar to the Illusive Man. I'm sure you tried to bring some new perspective for me. But sometimes your actions and your stances speak louder than thousand words. This is how it is for Illusive man.

Modifié par Arppis, 28 janvier 2012 - 11:49 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arppis wrote...
I've done everything I can to rally allies behind my banner in these games. So I don't need the stinking base, it's just a slave-boat we got.

The reapers will reap all of your allies. We cna't defeat them wiht conventional military might.

[Arppis]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arppis wrote...
I've done everything I can to rally allies behind my banner in these games. So I don't need the stinking base, it's just a slave-boat we got.

The reapers will reap all of your allies. We cna't defeat them wiht conventional military might.

I'm sure Reaper's slave ship will give you a lot of hardcore guns.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

ME3 forums! So nope.

Doesn't matter. Discussion is about the validity of the CB decision.

Yep and you can take ME3 info in account of that. It's not in character discussion we are having. So metagaming claims are just BS here. We need to take everything in account, not just what you 3 dictate.

Yes, yes it is.
It is pointless to discuss the validity of a decision in hindsight.


What hapens after doesn't invalidate a decision that was reasonable at the time.

I can give yo ua billion examples if you want.

[KotorEffect3]

I don't need the stupid base, I don't need cerberus, I have the Shadow Broker's information network.

[Arppis]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Who created experiments and killed Alliance people, seems to be completely ruthless about his deeds and doesn't mind extremests in his group. Yep, he's been helpful alright, but there is always a catch.

That he's ruthless is a good thing. Don't forget what you are up against.

The catch is always that TIM is working to benefit his own goals. He's upfront about that.

Hell, it's the same catch you have too. You aren't helping TIM because you like him, you are helping him because you and he have the same overall goal.

You don't mind extremists in your group either seeing as you recruited Samara.

Ruthless actions have their places. I know that. But when you act like that about almost anything, when there is better choice for it. Why do it? It's a big trust issue with Illusive man that my character has for example. He doesn't trust him to do the right thing.

But we'll see how this plays in the ME3, won't we?

And Samara? I can atleast control her in some degree, she is sworn to follow my morals. I'd have to stop her too if she would have gone out of line.

Now I gotta go! See you guys, was fun chatting. 

[Arppis]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

ME3 forums! So nope.

Doesn't matter. Discussion is about the validity of the CB decision.

Yep and you can take ME3 info in account of that. It's not in character discussion we are having. So metagaming claims are just BS here. We need to take everything in account, not just what you 3 dictate.

Yes, yes it is.
It is pointless to discuss the validity of a decision in hindsight.


What hapens after doesn't invalidate a decision that was reasonable at the time.

I can give yo ua billion examples if you want.

You can dance around it all you want, but ingame character decissions have no real bearing to how valid Cerberus is. And that answer will be given in ME3 anyhows.

I'm willing to say that not everything Cerberus does is wrong, but there is plenty of wrong in it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I don't need the stupid base, I don't need cerberus, I have the Shadow Broker's information network.

Brilliant as ever .....<_<

I wonder from where will your network get working examples of reaper technology? Oh wait! You destroyed the only known source in the galaxy! Geez, aren't you brilliant.


You started with claims of a moral high ground - which has been utterly debunked.
You tried practical consideration - again debunked
Now you go for trust - which again proves your hypocrisy and double standards.

[DJBare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

My paragon only needed one justification to blow that base, the fact that it had already converted 1000s into dna slush and TIM would use it for the same thing, and please don't say "we don't know that"; it's a tired argument; ME1&ME2 are practically throwing it in your face with all the illegal experiments discovered by Shepard, TIM attempts to use plausable deniabilty, but fails miserably, cerburus is out for cerburus, of course TIM wants to save humanity, he needs something to control.

[Izhalezan]

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I don't need the stupid base, I don't need cerberus, I have the Shadow Broker's information network.

This is the fate of organic life on the line here, there will be tough choices and actions to take, you need people who will do just that.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arppis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Yes, yes it is.
It is pointless to discuss the validity of a decision in hindsight.


What hapens after doesn't invalidate a decision that was reasonable at the time.

I can give yo ua billion examples if you want.

You can dance around it all you want, but ingame character decissions have no real bearing to how valid Cerberus is. And that answer will be given in ME3 anyhows.

I'm willing to say that not everything Cerberus does is wrong, but there is plenty of wrong in it.

Yes, yes they do. Are are insane or something?

If you make a reasionable/rational decision at time X, any aditional info or stuff happening at time X+y DOESN'T INVALIDATE YOUR DECISION.

If you save a promising child savant that is a good decision. If that child later turns out to be space hitler, that doens't make your decision invalid. Yoi made the best decision with the data availalbe at the time, and a decision that had the highest chances at the best outcome.
If it turned out differentely, it turned out differenlty. Life sucks.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DJBare wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

My paragon only needed one justification to blow that base, the fact that it had already converted 1000s into dna slush and TIM would use it for the same thing, and please don't say "we don't know that"; it's a tired argument; ME1&ME2 are practically throwing it in your face with all the illegal experiments discovered by Shepard, TIM attempts to use plausable deniabilty, but fails miserably, cerburus is out for cerburus, of course TIM wants to save humanity, he needs something to control.

We do NOT know that. Don't pretend like it's a fact.
I know you have your own theories, but you are peddling them as facts - and they are not.

And even if TIM were to use it like that - so what? It's still bettter than totla galactic extinction


To use your logic:
We must kill all geth, because Legion is learly a heretic geth that is only liyng toget Shep to do his dirty work. Geth can never be trusted. That is a fact (even tough I cna't prove it)m and I will ingore anything that goers contrary to this!