1482 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Arppis wrote...
Ruthless actions have their places. I know that. But when you act like that about almost anything, when there is better choice for it. Why do it? It's a big trust issue with Illusive man that my character has for example. He doesn't trust him to do the right thing.

What better coice?

And Samara? I can atleast control her in some degree, she is sworn to follow my morals. I'd have to stop her too if she would have gone out of line.

Or so she sez.... Ever tough that she might be lying?

[angry_peon]

Have you any idea what incredibly useful information can be taken from the Collector base? I can't think of much tbh. From Sovereigns wreckage we got Reaper tech weapons and AI protocols. The armor is likely made of something not even found in the galaxy (I am sure they would have used that too otherwise). All you got is a disabled wreck of a Reaper larva and if you do not destroy the base it is not even *that* damaged so, that is likely to indoctrinate anyone on this base.
So tell me, what do you think, can be possibly found there that we don't already have gotten from an "adult" Reaper?
For me it's unknown chance of finding some stuff of unknown value vs. very high chance of indoctrination. No, thanks.
On top of that it is not unlikely that TIM pulled a Saruman long ago "we can't beat them, so we will join them"-style and rebuilt and sent Shep after the Collectors to "impress" the Reapers and convince them, that humanity can serve them better in the current form, (if Shepard does not destroy the base TIM would even have the Reaper larva, almost intact, and would have proven capable without costing the Reapers too much).
Or something like that.
I, and thus my Shepard, always suspected some sort of treachery from him. That he looks part Husk (Shepard doesn't know he actually is, but he can see his eyes and people have suspected TIM to be "like Saren" long before any ME3 leak on the same basis) doesn't help his case.

[DJBare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

We do NOT know that. Don't pretend like it's a fact.

I'm done, you win, I'm off to get a coffee before continuing my paragade Shepard.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
ME3 is irrelevant to the discussion - since Shepard doesn't know at hteh time of hte CB decision about the future....but I know that you cannot justify anything without it (even when meta-gaming).

My paragon only needed one justification to blow that base, the fact that it had already converted 1000s into dna slush and TIM would use it for the same thing, and please don't say "we don't know that"; it's a tired argument; ME1&ME2 are practically throwing it in your face with all the illegal experiments discovered by Shepard, TIM attempts to use plausable deniabilty, but fails miserably, cerburus is out for cerburus, of course TIM wants to save humanity, he needs something to control.

We do NOT know that. Don't pretend like it's a fact.
I know you have your own theories, but you are peddling them as facts - and they are not.

And even if TIM were to use it like that - so what? It's still bettter than totla galactic extinction


To use your logic:
We must kill all geth, because Legion is learly a heretic geth that is only liyng toget Shep to do his dirty work. Geth can never be trusted. That is a fact (even tough I cna't prove it)m and I will ingore anything that goers contrary to this!

Why are you constantly pretending that those two factions (Cerberus and geth) are the same?

Just because it applies to one doesn't mean it applies to the other.

Legion gave Shepard the location of the geth base, which has some pretty high value and it could damage not only the heretic geth, but all geth, including himself. I don't think he'd do that if he had some kind of evil plan.

TIM flat out said that he thinks that Cerberus is humanity, which means that he only cares about saving his own worthless hide. That is contradictory to what he said earlier, but it's pretty apparent as well, given that he decided that sacrificing half a colony to just confirm a hunch was a good thing to do while showing no remorse about it.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 28 janvier 2012 - 12:16 .

[jaza]

DJBare wrote...

jaza wrote...
I acknowledged that in my first post, thank you.

What I was saying is that we would be able to retake the base when/if he captures it.

In the mean time while you are preparing to take back the base it's already being used, a bit late for the poor suckers already being experimented on huh?

Without the base the entire galaxy will likely become just another footnote on the Reapers "Wall of Harvested Galaxies".

A bit bad for all those billions of innocent life forms huh?

[angry_peon]

So you really suspect the Reapers stuffed some invaluable key to their own destruction on an almost unguarded station, manned by subjects they found to be unworthy of Reaperdom in reach (albeit difficult to) of the species they want to harvest? And all that for the very solid reason of "well then we won't have to build a Reaper from scratch when we arrive, because it is already 1/3 done"?
Yeah, sounds like overpowering intellect to me...

[AlexXIV]

I wish people would stop the 'Cerberus is humanity' nonsense.

The only ones saying this are Cerberus themselves. And while I can see that they seem to be concerned with human issues they are no way representative for humanity. Whether TIM's goals serve humanity or not doesn't even matter. The point is that he is not representing humanity just because he says so. I know it because I am human and I don't agree with him on most things. So is my Shepard. And many millions of ME fans and probably billions of humans in the game. Cerberus =/= Humanity. If anyone represents humanity then it's Shepard.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Varhjhin wrote...

So you really suspect the Reapers stuffed some invaluable key to their own destruction on an almost unguarded station, manned by subjects they found to be unworthy of Reaperdom in reach (albeit difficult to) of the species they want to harvest? And all that for the very solid reason of "well then we won't have to build a Reaper from scratch when we arrive, because it is already 1/3 done"?
Yeah, sounds like overpowering intellect to me...

If there's is a key it's likely to be there. Remeber - in that station a REAPER was built.

It's like saying you won't findanything usefull orany weakneses of a tank in a TANK FACTORY.

And base was guaraded by their 100% loyal slaves, behind a relay where ships get torn apart wihout a very special IFF that one can only get from a reaper.  Harly unguarded.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 janvier 2012 - 12:49 .

[jaza]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Varhjhin wrote...

So you really suspect the Reapers stuffed some invaluable key to their own destruction on an almost unguarded station, manned by subjects they found to be unworthy of Reaperdom in reach (albeit difficult to) of the species they want to harvest? And all that for the very solid reason of "well then we won't have to build a Reaper from scratch when we arrive, because it is already 1/3 done"?
Yeah, sounds like overpowering intellect to me...

If there's is a jey it's likelyot be there. Remeber - in that station a REAPER was built.

It's like saying you won't findanything usefull orany weakneses of a tank in a TANK FACTORY.

And base was guaraded by their 100% loyal slaves, behind a relay where ships get torn apart wihout a very special IFF that one can only get from a reaper.  Harly unguarded.

What Lotion said.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Why are you constantly pretending that those two factions (Cerberus and geth) are the same?

Just because it applies to one doesn't mean it applies to the other.

Because it does. It always a trust issuse.
And I'm not talking "whom should Shepard trust", but "how can Shepard demand X for others while being a raging hypocrite"

What if Krogans hate and mistrust Salarinas more than Shep hates and mistrusts Cerberus? What then?
How about trying to tink for a second from the perspective of other factions and how they see Shep?

You decry Cerberus and refuse to wrok with them - because you do not trust them and are convinced they can't be trusted.

Yet if Quarians do not trust Geth, it Krogan do not trust Salarians - and are convinced they can't be trusted - how is that any different? It's not. It's the same thing.

You are jsut saiyng "who I think should be trusted is more important then what everyone else thinks and any and all practical or logical consideration can go to hell!"

Legion gave Shepard the location of the geth base, which has some pretty high value and it could damage not only the heretic geth, but all geth, including himself. I don't think he'd do that if he had some kind of evil plan.

You don't think that..too bad, nobody cares.
You can't prove nothing. And the quarian admiral thinks that. So what you gonna do now?

See? I'm confronting you with the exact same line of reasoning you're using against Cerberus, but I'm usign them against other races - and you can't do nothing.

Let's try again:
"TIM gave Shepard the location of the Collector base, a ship, crew and his life back, which has some pretty
high value and could damage himself. I don't think he'd do that if he had some kind of
evil plan."

TIM flat out said that he thinks that Cerberus is humanity, which means that he only cares about saving his own worthless hide. That is contradictory to what he said earlier, but it's pretty apparent as well, given that he decided that sacrificing half a colony to just confirm a hunch was a good thing to do while showing no remorse about it.

Which means....no...which you THINK it means. You constructed a image of TIM in your mind and you stick by it regardless of anything.
You're not responding to reason or logic. Which is even more evident as you keep attacking TIM for doing the most sensible and logical thing available.

[angry_peon]

1. Yes a Reaper was build. Yet Cerberus was unable to find any real weakness (or they did not publish that info) after years of researching a complete, derilict Reaper, where everything was already in place. A dericlit Reaper that indoctrinated everone on board, which is likely to happen with the Reaper larva as well, as it is likely more intact than the DR.

2. With unguarded I meant it is no battle station. Once reached (and reaching it IS possible. Collector ships are not invincible. The chance that one and it's IFF gets captured is certainly there) it has no real defense.

3. More like finding tech in an outpost behind enemy lines. Assuming to find something absolutely defeating there is grasping for straws.

4. Yes the collectors are loyal and useful as slaves. Yet the Reapers ar clearly not very impressed with them and only mildly annoyed by their extinction.
Letting mere slaves guard something that is really dangerous to the Reapers for no solid reason (the point you ignored so readily) is not like them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...

I wish people would stop the 'Cerberus is humanity' nonsense.

The only ones saying this are Cerberus themselves. And while I can see that they seem to be concerned with human issues they are no way representative for humanity. Whether TIM's goals serve humanity or not doesn't even matter. The point is that he is not representing humanity just because he says so. I know it because I am human and I don't agree with him on most things. So is my Shepard. And many millions of ME fans and probably billions of humans in the game. Cerberus =/= Humanity. If anyone represents humanity then it's Shepard.

I don't agree wiht my own government of most things. So what?
Legitimacy isillusory. The Alliance isn't representative of humanity either (especially the terminnus colonies)

Shep doesn't represent humanity. Never. That statment is a hunderd times more of a ego trip than TIM ever had.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Varhjhin wrote...

1. Yes a Reaper was build. Yet Cerberus was unable to find any real weakness (or they did not publish that info) after years of researching a complete, derilict Reaper, where everything was already in place. A dericlit Reaper that indoctrinated everone on board, which is likely to happen with the Reaper larva as well, as it is likely more intact than the DR.

What years?
Cerberus found is only a short while ago before contacting you. And you have no idea exactly what they learned.

And the risk of indoctrination is irrelvant. It's a risk we MUST take.

2. With unguarded I meant it is no battle station. Once reached (and reaching it IS possible. Collector ships are not invincible. The chance that one and it's IFF gets captured is certainly there) it has no real defense.

Statis defenses in space are redicolous concept anyway.
And what you say doesn't make it unguarded - it makes it unarmed by itself. but that is irrelevant.

3. More like finding tech in an outpost behind enemy lines. Assuming to find something absolutely defeating there is grasping for straws.

nope. The station was building a reaper. A REPAER. And mantaining Collector ships.
It's like captuiring the top-of-the line enemy shipyard .With all the storages, materials, machinery used to build - all in tact.
IT's a gold mine.

4. Yes the collectors are loyal and useful as slaves. Yet the Reapers ar clearly not very impressed with them and only mildly annoyed by their extinction.
Letting mere slaves guard something that is really dangerous to the Reapers for no solid reason (the point you ignored so readily) is not like them.

Doesnt' matter if they are mere slaves. They are brainwashed to be perfectly loyal and are effective. After all, no one managed to get to the base in all the previous cycles.
To say the base is undefended and that hte repaers are stupid is ...well..stuipid.

you can aruge the repaers plan with the HR was stupid (and it was), but the base itself was secure.

[angry_peon]

OK not years. But enough time to build all that fancy lab-stuff inside the Reaper. So weeks/months whatever. Still they found nothing before all going crazy and there is not much time before the Reapers arrive.
And don't forget you would also have to integrate whatever you find into the... Reaper-kill-thingy (be it a fleet, a super computer/weapon whatever) in that same amount of time.
And now I would like an example of what you think could be this immeasurable "thing" you seem so keen to find. A code that makes all Reapers explode? A Death Star super laser that was to be integrated into the HR? A device that can make you mind control them? What? Whatever it is better does not take more than a few weeks to assemble and make ready for battle.
Slightly stronger weapons (that are already enhanced by Reaper tech for a considerable part of the forces) or other more realistic improvements won't change the outcome much, nor will there be enough time or logistic capability to do much with it in the short amount of time.
There are better options to look at. Like that dark matter stuff happening on Haestrom or the weapon that one-shot the Derilict Reaper.
On the other side there is still the fact that you at least eliminate the threat of indoctrinated people running around on a people-blender. You also destroy the larva to at least thwart THAT plan of the Reapers. Unimportant as it may be in the big picture.

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I wish people would stop the 'Cerberus is humanity' nonsense.

The only ones saying this are Cerberus themselves. And while I can see that they seem to be concerned with human issues they are no way representative for humanity. Whether TIM's goals serve humanity or not doesn't even matter. The point is that he is not representing humanity just because he says so. I know it because I am human and I don't agree with him on most things. So is my Shepard. And many millions of ME fans and probably billions of humans in the game. Cerberus =/= Humanity. If anyone represents humanity then it's Shepard.

I don't agree wiht my own government of most things. So what?
Legitimacy isillusory. The Alliance isn't representative of humanity either (especially the terminnus colonies)

Shep doesn't represent humanity. Never. That statment is a hunderd times more of a ego trip than TIM ever had.

Well I said IF anyone then Shepard. But maybe not even s/he. I don't even really care who represents humanity, maybe nobody. Just as long as people realize that if they think Cerberus does that it is their agenda, no more or less. Cerberus is just a group of people funded by another, very powerful group of people. Could range from terrorists over crime syndicate to mercenaries or any legal companies. They are not better or worse than any other illegal/inofficial group who just works for their own benefit.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 28 janvier 2012 - 01:41 .

[Phaedon]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
I got nothing[/quote]

I know.
[/quote]
These are actually your own words. Here's my actual post:


[quote]Phaedon wrote...
[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
I've attempted to prove [/quote] 
FTFY [/quote]


You certrainly don't represent anyone, and you most certainly have never proven anything that anyone but you accepted as proof. I believe that it's time to accept that.




[quote]Hahahaha...no.

Try again with a sensible argument.[/quote]I'll actually repost the section of my post you failed to reply towards:
[quote]
[quote]making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.[/quote]
Sounds exactly something like TIM would consider. Looking at his organization's track record. [/quote]

One would think that by now, after your multiple fruitless attempts of trying that tactic in the previous months, you'd have recognized that attempting to dismiss portions of posts instead of replying to them wouldn't work,  as the other person would just requote them. It's OK though, I am patient. You'll be able to learn one day.

Anyway, my argument most certainly stands unanswered.
What makes you think that TIM wouldn't do it? Because it is stupid?
Fanatical ultranationalism is stupid. So what?

Because it sounds stupid to you?
Bullsh*t. Or perhaps, Bull's Hit, as this is exactly the problem.

"Hey, some colonists are being abducting and there is no trace of the abducters. Let's spend billions on trying to invent technolodgy that revives people, revive the first person in history, and have him or her be Shepard, a person with no investigative capabilities."

Project Lazarus


"Hey, the geth are being naughty. Let's try to indoctrinate them, by just talking to them. For that we will not use an influential person, or someone with great communication skill, but rather someone who is the exact opposite, just because he can translate the geth language"

Project Overlord

"I have just found these extremelly difficult pieces of Reaper tech that indoctrinate people, and install them on my worst enemy, to whom I coincidentally just gave superpowers"

Project Retribution


"Hey, the Reapers are being naughty. Let's use the synthetic, non-organic portion of a Reaper against them. That will work, right?"

Project Human Reaper.

It doesn't matter how stupid it is, or how stupid it sounds to you. Cerberus has on the past, through TIM or specific operatives, worked on "stupid" ideas.

Although some think that hiring a doctor who has no idea that being forced to stay awake can cause permanent mental problems, especially to an autistic person, was a brilliant idea.




[quote]What? What friggin drugs are you taking?[/quote]
I'm just sniffing your smell, actually.

[quote]Yes you do need the organic component. Without the organic component, it's NOT a reaper. It's just a very advanced ship - and there's nothing morally wrong with building ships.[/quote]
That was a really smart conclusion, Lotion.
Ever considered that the fact that giving a super advanced dreadnaught to a criminal who is in conflict with all of the major "powers that be" which by itself couldn't defeat the Reapers, a very silly move, especially on the eve of galactic war, was exactly what I was getting at?

Dude.

He is building a WMD. The arch criminal. With the racist undertones. That every single of your allies will sooner or later have direct conflict with.






[quote][quote]
[quote]And nothing TIM said is confirmation fo your redicolous suspicions.[/quote]
"You are completely ruthless, next thing I know you'll be wanting to grow your own Reaper."
"My goal is to save humanity from the Reapers. At any cost, I have never hidden that from you."[/quote]

That's no a confirmation of him wanting to build a reaper.. Leave that fantasy world of yours.
He's confirming his goal is to save humanity. You are paranoid htat the way he MIGHT choose to do so is not something you approve of, so you destroy the best chance the galxy has at fighting the reapers.[/quote]
You ought to have done your research before posting this, as this was exactly what I was trying to get you to say.

According to you, all that TIM does is affirm that he'd put his own goals before anything else.

You may want to know that the dialogue option is labelled "How can I trust you?"

"How can I trust you?"
"I'll put my goals in front of your own goals or life"

Heheh. Neat!


[quote]For it offends your tender sensibilities.[/quote] 
I don't really know.

If I was really that sensible, I'd be crying over the fate of the guy who'll be trying to kill me throughout the third act of the trilogy. I clearly am not.

[quote]The galaxy needs to be saved from the reapers far far more than it needs your messed-up morals.[/quote]
It needs to be saved, Lotion?

Shepard will only live a few more decades if s/he survives the Reaper Invasion.
The various races will go extinct sooner or later.

If you don't believe in something bigger than yourself, be it Aristotelian morals or who-knows-what, there is no
for the galaxy to be saved. Because it won't. You are just delaying the inevitable. And don't bring instincts to this. You claim to have let everything but logic behind you. The "logical" conclusion is that the entire galaxy ought to committ suicide right now. They'll die eventually, and there is no "logical" point in life.

In conclusion...

...nope.

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 janvier 2012 - 01:50 .

[LTiberious]

Ah yes - creating Human Biotics.

[LTiberious]

Doublepost.

Modifié par LTiberious, 28 janvier 2012 - 01:52 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Varhjhin wrote...

OK not years. But enough time to build all that fancy lab-stuff inside the Reaper. So weeks/months whatever. Still they found nothing before all going crazy and there is not much time before the Reapers arrive.
And don't forget you would also have to integrate whatever you find into the... Reaper-kill-thingy (be it a fleet, a super computer/weapon whatever) in that same amount of time.

Days sounds more like it.
We dont' really know what the research team found. Tehy forward their reports to the Illusive man, not Shep.

What we do know is that they managed to identifyand extract the IFF. This many not seem liek a big deal ,but remeberthat we're talkinga bout alien tech. finding a scmall specific device inside a 2kkm long warsips, identifying it's purpose and extracting it safely is a monumental task in tiself. It's not like repaer parts come with instruction manulas and labels...

And now I would like an example of what you think could be this
immeasurable "thing" you seem so keen to find. A code that makes all
Reapers explode? A Death Star super laser that was to be integrated into
the HR? A device that can make you mind control them? What? Whatever it
is better does not take more than a few weeks to assemble and make
ready for battle.

And it's hard ot tell what you can find out. Information is power. It doesn't have to necessarily be a guin that you can manufacture and put on waarships. A reaper structural weakness/weak spot? Very important and usefull.
Defence against indoctrination? Extreemly important. Any organized resistance effort will be compromised by sleeper agents.
And so on and  so forth...

Also recall that at the time of the CB decision, we have no idea when the reapers will come. It could be months. It could be years. It could be decades.


Slightly stronger weapons (that are already enhanced by Reaper tech for a considerable part of the forces) or other more realistic improvements won't change the outcome much, nor will there be enough time or logistic capability to do much with it in the short amount of time.

There are better options to look at. Like that dark matter stuff happening on Haestrom or the weapon that one-shot the Derilict Reaper.

How is that better? The super-gun is defunct and hte species who built it is gone. that gun was their act of defiance. Wasting tons of resources into that is not better.
I don't know much about the dark amtter thing.but the best option is to keep ALL of your options open. Go after everything you can.

On the other side there is still the fact that you at least eliminate the threat of indoctrinated people running around on a people-blender. You also destroy the larva to at least thwart THAT plan of the Reapers. Unimportant as it may be in the big picture.

Indoctrinated people WILL be running around once the reapers come. That is unavoidable.
Better they run now under controlled conditions and give you a chance to prevent that to happening to billions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

AlexXIV wrote...
Well I said IF anyone then Shepard. But maybe not even s/he. I don't even really care who represents humanity, maybe nobody. Just as long as people realize that if they think Cerberus does that it is their agenda, no more or less. Cerberus is just a group of people funded by another, very powerful group of people. Could range from terrorists over crime syndicate to mercenaries or any legal companies. They are not better or worse than any other illegal/inofficial group who just works for their own benefit.

Every group in existance has it's own motivations and goals. Do you think The Alliance or the Council don't?
There really isn't any person or group that cna really "represent" humanity. But tehy can work for or agaisnt it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
These are actually your own words[/quote]

No, those are hte words you edited.


[quote]
You certrainly don't represent anyone, and you most certainly have never proven anything that anyone but you accepted as proof. I believe that it's time to accept that.[/quote]

Pahdeon, I could give myself a lobotomy nad I'd STILL have better arguments than you.
I have pšroven a lot of stuff...I belive it's time you accept that...But you won't.



[quote]
[quote]Hahahaha...no.
Try again with a sensible argument.[/quote]

I'll actually repost the section of my post you failed to reply towards:
[quote]
[quote]making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.[/quote]
Sounds exactly something like TIM would consider. Looking at his organization's track record. [/quote]

One would think that by now, after your multiple fruitless attempts of trying that tactic in the previous months, you'd have recognized that attempting to dismiss portions of posts instead of replying to them wouldn't work,  as the other person would just requote them. It's OK though, I am patient. You'll be able to learn one day.[/quote]

Re-posting it won't help you. It is a redicolous argument, and my reply covers it.
Treating everyone as a moron. That's not an argumnet. That's a joke. Heck, not even that.

You can't just say "X is an idiot so Y is exactly what he would do!". that's bollocks and you know it.
You know what? Anderson is an idiot. Hence I postulate he will shoot Shepard in the back. According to oyu, this makes perfect sense.


[quote]
Anyway, my argument most certainly stands unanswered.
What makes you think that TIM wouldn't do it? Because it is stupid?
Fanatical ultranationalism is stupid. So what?[/quote]

What makes you think the Alliance won't nuke their own citizens? Hey, I can ask moronic questions too!

The course of action you describe is a waste of resource,s ineffficient, ineffective, illogical and stupid. Yet you insist TIM will go for it..why? Simply because you hate himand Cerberus.



[quote]
"Hey, some colonists are being abducting and there is no trace of the abducters. Let's spend billions on trying to invent technolodgy that revives people, revive the first person in history, and have him or her be Shepard, a person with no investigative capabilities."

Project Lazarus[/quote]

That is stupid. But that's an exception the writers made up to justify the plot.

[quote]
"Hey, the geth are being naughty. Let's try to indoctrinate them, by just talking to them. For that we will not use an influential person, or someone with great communication skill, but rather someone who is the exact opposite, just because he can translate the geth language"

Project Overlord[/quote]and it worked. No points for you.


[quote]
"I have just found these extremelly difficult pieces of Reaper tech that indoctrinate people, and install them on my worst enemy, to whom I coincidentally just gave superpowers"

Project Retribution[/quote]

Blame Anderson and Turians.



[quote]
"Hey, the Reapers are being naughty. Let's use the synthetic, non-organic portion of a Reaper against them. That will work, right?"

Project Human Reaper.[/quote]

that's your fantasy head canon?



[quote]
It doesn't matter how stupid it is, or how stupid it sounds to you. Cerberus has on the past, through TIM or specific operatives, worked on "stupid" ideas.[/quote]

congratulations - everyone in the galaxy (Shep included) has hgeld on to an idiot ball to move hte plot along.
But you postulate tehy must ALWAYS and consistently act as idiots.

By your logic it makes no sense saving hte galaxy - everyone is a moron and they're going to kill themselves anyway...



[quote]
[quote]Yes you do need the organic component. Without the organic component, it's NOT a reaper. It's just a very advanced ship - and there's nothing morally wrong with building ships.[/quote]
That was a really smart conclusion, Lotion.
Ever considered that the fact that giving a super advanced dreadnaught to a criminal who is in conflict with all of the major "powers that be" which by itself couldn't defeat the Reapers, a very silly move, especially on the eve of galactic war, was exactly what I was getting at?[/quote]

Reapers >>>> Cerberus
Priorities... Dude... You could learn a bit about that.



[quote]
According to you, all that TIM does is affirm that he'd put his own goals before anything else.[/quote]

so do you apprently. So what? His goal is to defeat the reapers.


[quote]
[quote]The galaxy needs to be saved from the reapers far far more than it needs your messed-up morals.[/quote]
It needs to be saved, Lotion?

Shepard will only live a few more decades if s/he survives the Reaper Invasion.
The various races will go extinct sooner or later.

If you don't believe in something bigger than yourself, be it Aristotelian morals or who-knows-what, there is no
for the galaxy to be saved. Because it won't. You are just delaying the inevitable. And don't bring instincts to this. You claim to have let everything but logic behind you. The "logical" conclusion is that the entire galaxy ought to committ suicide right now. They'll die eventually, and there is no "logical" point in life.[/quote]

moronic.

Yes, the lives of everyone in the galaxy apparently have no worth. That's the "bigger thing".
You immoral ignoramus.
The logical conclusion is that we should all die? Lol...no
How about this - you're not conformingto my morals. Clearly it is logical that your life ins't worth anything so you should kill yourself. Becuse I say so.

Calling your abortion of morals and wordview something high andbetter. I'd weep, but tht would be wasting my tears.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:29 .

[Volus Warlord]

This hasn't been locked yet?

I mean, this has just been bashing back and forth between Cerberus supporters and self-righteous multiculturist swine. This is going nowhere..

[Lotion Soronarr]

ADDENDUM:Phadeon, your stance and hte stance of those similar to you disgusts me. Let+'s break down your "morals", shall we?

- If Shep gives the CB to TIM, humanity(and the galaxy) does not deserve to live.
How? Why? what the hell does everyone in the galaxy has to do wiht Sheps decisions? Did Shepard ask little Bobby Baxter on Eden Prime for advice? No.So the hell can you comdenthe entire galaxy for the actions of one man?
Why does Bobby now deserve to die?

Even if we assume that the entire galaxy agreed to use hte CB and methods you do not approve of - who are you to judge? What gives you the right?How the hell can you condemn BILLIONS (or was it TRILIONS) of beings to death jsut because their method  to survive doesn't meet your ethical standards? You do relaise there's women and choildren among those billions, no?

Third, loosing humanity? How the hell does one loose humanity by triyng to survive...by trying to save the ENTIRE FRIGGIN GALAXY? what the hell does "humanity" even mean in this context? You never elaborate, you never explain. What is it exactly that we loose if we use the CB?



So really. For a pargon, you're the most sick and judgmental person I ever met.
You judge and condemn everyone and put your own ease of mind above everying else....Than claim some moral and philospohical high-ground. Some higher cause? The only higher cause you belive in is your ego!

And you know, I do belive in something greater than myslef. It's called "the lives of everyone in the galaxy". Something you obviously don't, despite that maks of caring you put on.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:26 .

[LetMeW1n]

Who gives a crab about the lives of everyone in the galaxy. We are all dead meat and bones anyway. Just very optimistic dead meat and bones. Optimistic about of choices, beliefs, those few extra years..

The reapers are right. They are ascending us away from this pointless existence. Just not in a way we would like or even understand. Not while we're still alive.

Lol just saying

Modifié par LetMeW1n, 28 janvier 2012 - 04:53 .