1482 réponses à ce sujet

[JohnCleeselol]

wait, Cerberus assassinated a Pope?

[Arppis]

JohnCleeselol wrote...

wait, Cerberus assassinated a Pope?

Only if you give them Cerberus base. They will find the time machine there and travel back in time and do it!
And thus history changes and everything will be ok, Reapers will die and all that.

[Yakko77]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

I don't need the stupid base, I don't need cerberus, I have the Shadow Broker's information network.

Brilliant as ever .....<_<

I wonder from where will your network get working examples of reaper technology? Oh wait! You destroyed the only known source in the galaxy! Geez, aren't you brilliant.


You started with claims of a moral high ground - which has been utterly debunked.
You tried practical consideration - again debunked
Now you go for trust - which again proves your hypocrisy and double standards.

Actually it is briliant because it's simple and effective.  Information, loads of it, from the new SB whom is a far more loyal and trustworthy source than TIM let alone NOT being guilty of atrociries and unethical behavir that rivals some of the most despised despots in history.  Besides, all ME technology is essentially Reaper technology so let's not pretend that destroying the Collector base destroyed the only option to beating the Reapers shall we.

[Yakko77]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I wouldn't give that gun to a stranger who just walked in a room. Who knows what he will do with it.

This isn't some random stranger. You've had an entire game to get to know the Illusive Man and Cerberus. If you still think they can't be trusted I want to know why. What did they do in ME2 that made you doubt their motives?

I think most of you are just genre savvy and don't know how to role-play.

There is a grissly bear outside of your cabin. You are locked in with that stranger you mentioned. There is a loaded rifle over the fireplace. The stranger says he is familiar with guns and asks for the rifle.

Do you give it to him?

NOT morally equivalent to trusting TIM, not even a little bit.

One is a animal acting on instinct the other is a man who time and again by choice whether by direct action or deliberate inaction allowed his organization to conduct experiments on par with atrocities carried out by the worst despots and dictators in our history.

Why is it so many Cerberus apologists pretend as if all the morally and ethically bankrupt experiements gone awry in ME1 let alone in ME2 are somehow not a factor to be considered on whether to trust TIM and Cerberus.  TIM brought Shep back in the hopes of using him to help Cerberus attain dominance and given their history, that would not be a good thing for humanity let alone the galaxy.

ME2 tried to paint Cerberus in shades of grey and maybe for some of the people in it to fight the Reapers it is a shade of grey but for TIM there can be no doubt about his dark motivation based on the game I have played a dozen times.  TIM is not shy about not just wanting human dominance but Cerberus dominance.  He's power mad.  Be it from his own nefarious intent or Reaper indoctrination, the end results are equally bad for humanity and the galaxy as a whole.  Power corrupts and TIM has a LOT of power with Cerberus but absolute power corrupts absolutely so a control freak like TIM with absolute power should not only be avoided but opposed and fought against with the same determination as we fight the Reapers.

Besides, based on the videos we've seen it looks as if we'll be fighting Cerberus in ME3 regardless so...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Yakko77 wrote...
Why is it so many Cerberus apologists pretend as if all the morally and ethically bankrupt experiements gone awry in ME1 let alone in ME2 are somehow not a factor to be considered on whether to trust TIM and Cerberus.  TIM brought Shep back in the hopes of using him to help Cerberus attain dominance and given their history, that would not be a good thing for humanity let alone the galaxy.

Becase the question isn't if Cerberus is up to someones moral standards.
The question is "can Cerberus help defeat the reapers". The answer is yes.

Human dominance WOULD be a good thing for humanity. I'm sure you have a vision of future with TIM sitting atop a throne of skulls lording over hte entire galaxy, but that is not how it works. Or would work.

I for one never go the impression that TIM wanst to rule over anything.

Power corrupts and TIM has a LOT of power with Cerberus but absolute power corrupts absolutely so a control freak like TIM with absolute power should not only be avoided but opposed and fought against with the same determination as we fight the Reapers.

The Council has even more power. And what about Shepard?

TIM never was a "good guy", but this turning him into a super-staling-essenceofevil is getting redicolous.
You're ascribing motives and agendas to TIM you cannot prove.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:24 .

[KotorEffect3]

I hope you cerberus drones lose earth in your playthroughs.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I hope you self-absorbed paragons of non-virtue finally get enlightened to the errors of your ways.

[KotorEffect3]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I hope you self-absorbed paragons of non-virtue finally get enlightened to the errors of your ways.

Sorry but being a power hungry meglomaniac does not make one enlightened.

[Phaedon]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

[quote]Phaedon wrote...
These are actually your own words[/quote]

No, those are hte words you edited.[/quote]

Correction.

This exchange:
"I got nothing"
"I know."

Is your own fictional creation. As one would expect, anyway.



[quote]Pahdeon,[/quote]
How do you pronounce that?

[quote]
pšroven [/quote]
I genuinely want to know how you pronounce that. Is it similar to the German  " ß "


[quote]I could give myself a lobotomy nad I'd STILL have better arguments than you.[/quote]
Look, no offence, but I generally doubt that you can actually succesfully conduct such precise surgical procedures when you do them on your own self.


[quote]I have pšroven a lot of stuff...I belive it's time you accept that...But you won't.[/quote]
What are you talking about?

I have specifically accepted that you have proven yourself incapable of supporting your argument without speaking about your person in plural and attributing something to yourself that has never occured. That has to count for something.




[quote]
[quote]Hahahaha...no.
Try again with a sensible argument.[/quote]

I'll actually repost the section of my post you failed to reply towards:
[quote]
[quote]making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.[/quote]
Sounds exactly something like TIM would consider. Looking at his organization's track record. [/quote]

One would think that by now, after your multiple fruitless attempts of trying that tactic in the previous months, you'd have recognized that attempting to dismiss portions of posts instead of replying to them wouldn't work,  as the other person would just requote them. It's OK though, I am patient. You'll be able to learn one day.[/quote]

[quote]Re-posting it won't help you. It is a redicolous argument, and my reply covers it.
Treating everyone as a moron. That's not an argumnet. That's a joke. Heck, not even that.[/quote]
I am sure that if you tried to read a bit more carefully, you'd see that I specifically called TIM's actions frequently moronic, rather than "treating everyone as a moron". I reckon that you are doing it, when you mask your failures to come back with a proper rebuttal as complete dismissals of the argument. So I'll quote myself again. No problem, I can be very patient.

Also, I don't believe that the word you are looking for is "redicolous".



I will actually repost the section of my post you failed to reply towards:
[quote]
[quote]making a human reaper is horribly impractical, inefficient, stupid and the most moronic action possible.[/quote]
Sounds exactly something like TIM would consider. Looking at his organization's track record. [/quote] 


[quote]You can't just say "X is an idiot so Y is exactly what he would do!". that's bollocks and you know it.
You know what? Anderson is an idiot. Hence I postulate he will shoot Shepard in the back. According to oyu, this makes perfect sense. [/quote]
No, it makes no sense, but that is alright, because you seem to have failed to read properly through my posts again. Morons are not bad people. They don't stab you in the back, not necessarily. Where did I say that TIM would stab you in the back because he is moronic? These are your own words, not mine. I certainly don't attribute his complete untrustworthiness to his potentically low intelligence.

I specifically said that just because it seems moronic to you, it doesn't seem that TIM won't do it.
In fact, I pointed out that TIM has indulged in even more far fetched and immature ideas. It's like giving thousands of dollars to an overexcited eleven year old on Christmas Eve. People can do stupid things if they have the means to do it.

But, let's get back to you.
Why did you make the logical connection between "idiot" and "back stabber", when no one mentioned something even close to that?
Do you have a pathological fear of idiots? Is it an attempt at differentiating yourself from such a group? I honestly can't wait to find out!




[quote]What makes you think the Alliance won't nuke their own citizens? Hey, I can ask moronic questions too![/quote]
I know that you can ask moronic questions, you need not demonestrate, Lotion. Anyway, I'll just quote this specific portion of my post because you failed to answer to it, and then I'll answer to you:
[quote]
Anyway, my argument most certainly stands unanswered.
What makes you think that TIM wouldn't do it? Because it is stupid?
Fanatical ultranationalism is stupid. So what?[/quote] 

And no, Lotion, I don't believe that the Alliance would NOT nuke their own citizens because it is stupid. I believe that they wouldn't do so because they have moral principles, and we know very well that two of the most powerful men in the Alliance are not keen on civillian casualties.


[quote]The course of action you describe is a waste of resource,s ineffficient, ineffective, illogical and stupid. Yet you insist TIM will go for it..why?[/quote]
I insist that TIM may very go for it, firstly, because he didn't deny that option, and secondly because a lot of similar projects could be described as "wastes of resources, inefficient, ineffective, illogical and stupid."

[quote]Simply because you hate himand Cerberus.[/quote]
Damn it, Lotion. You aren't supposed to answer your own rhetorical questions, you know. You are ruining the fun.

Anyway, I explained my reasons. Now explain why you think that they won't do it. They have gone for such "wastes of resources" in the past, that is well established. Is it simply because you love TIM almost as passionately as you do Cerberus?



[quote][quote]
"Hey, some colonists are being abducting and there is no trace of the abducters. Let's spend billions on trying to invent technolodgy that revives people, revive the first person in history, and have him or her be Shepard, a person with no investigative capabilities."

Project Lazarus[/quote]

That is stupid. But that's an exception the writers made up to justify the plot.[/quote]
Ah, the terrible, terrible, writers. Naughty lot, ain't they?

Either way it has been established once more that Project Lazarus was what you would consider a "waste of resources". As such, any other "waste of resources" may very well end up in the canonical timeline of the MEverse, be it an exception to the rule or not.


[quote]and it worked. No points for you.[/quote]
No it did not.

The Heretics never showed any loyalty to Cerberus. Instead, Cerberus had dozens of operatives killed, and almost initiated a technolodgical apocalypse.

And you want to know why it didn't work, Lotion?

For the plan to succeed, you would need to relay orders to your servants constantly. David over there could hardly last what, a couple of days? Try it yourself. No, really, do it. Stay awake for three or four days, and then let's see in what state you are in. The whole concept was overflowing of mental retardation from "Dr". Archer's part, a "doctor" who didn't share the knowledge that "Hey, staying awake for far too long? It can f*ck your mind, boyo".



[quote][quote]
"I have just found these extremelly difficult pieces of Reaper tech that indoctrinate people, and install them on my worst enemy, to whom I coincidentally just gave superpowers"

Project Retribution[/quote]

Blame Anderson and Turians.[/quote]
I need not. Again, you seem to have serious problems comprehending written text. Never did I accuse TIMmy and co. of unleashing a human wrecking ball across the galaxy. What I did, rather, was them establishing connection with the Reapers, which, hint, hint, gave them a LOT of intel about humanity.

Not only was the whole project ineffective, it was also not well thought out, and to be frank, to put it in your own words, "moronic".




[quote][quote]
"Hey, the Reapers are being naughty. Let's use the synthetic, non-organic portion of a Reaper against them. That will work, right?"

Project Human Reaper.[/quote]

that's your fantasy head canon?[/quote]
Nosireebob, I do not have masochistic fantasies.

What I do, however, is point out potential projects which TIM didn't deny in expressing interest towards and compare them to other (failed) Cerberus projects, further demolishing your idea of "moronic" and "waste of resources".




[quote][quote]
It doesn't matter how stupid it is, or how stupid it sounds to you. Cerberus has on the past, through TIM or specific operatives, worked on "stupid" ideas.[/quote]

congratulations - everyone in the galaxy (Shep included) has hgeld on to an idiot ball to move hte plot along.
But you postulate tehy must ALWAYS and consistently act as idiots.

By your logic it makes no sense saving hte galaxy - everyone is a moron and they're going to kill themselves anyway...[/quote]
Ah, good, good.

So, you accept then, that TIM has done stupid things in the past. Well, tough cheese ol' boy. They did happen.
And if the plot needs more "idiot balls", more will occur. And TIM certainly has a tendency towards these kinds of balls. You want to slip into a fantasy where TIM is not only infallible, but also not susceptible to idiocy? Well, it doesn't really matter what you want to do. You have already slipped a bit too far down that bubble.

[quote]

By your logic it makes no sense saving hte galaxy - everyone is a moron and they're going to kill themselves anyway... [/quote]
Whoever holds no purpose or moral belief in their life past an instinctive one killing themselves? It won't make a difference to them. It'll make a difference to those that are close to them. And I definitely didn't say "everyone".




[quote][quote]
[quote]Yes you do need the organic component. Without the organic component, it's NOT a reaper. It's just a very advanced ship - and there's nothing morally wrong with building ships.[/quote]
That was a really smart conclusion, Lotion.
Ever considered that the fact that giving a super advanced dreadnaught to a criminal who is in conflict with all of the major "powers that be" which by itself couldn't defeat the Reapers, a very silly move, especially on the eve of galactic war, was exactly what I was getting at?[/quote]

Reapers >>>> Cerberus
Priorities... Dude... You could learn a bit about that.[/quote]
Aha! So you then accept that TIM could fancy making a single Reaper? I mean, your post is supposed to be a reply to that specific portion of my post. A single Reaper who has no chance against a single Reaper fleet?



[quote][quote]
According to you, all that TIM does is affirm that he'd put his own goals before anything else.[/quote]

so do you apprently. So what? His goal is to defeat the reapers.[/quote]
Source? All I have heard is about advancing humanity. He definitely doesn't want to destroy the Reapers, actually. And don't accuse me of metagaming. We are discussing TIM's "morality" and his record of failures.


[quote]
[quote]The galaxy needs to be saved from the reapers far far more than it needs your messed-up morals.[/quote]
It needs to be saved, Lotion?

Shepard will only live a few more decades if s/he survives the Reaper Invasion.
The various races will go extinct sooner or later.

If you don't believe in something bigger than yourself, be it Aristotelian morals or who-knows-what, there is no
for the galaxy to be saved. Because it won't. You are just delaying the inevitable. And don't bring instincts to this. You claim to have let everything but logic behind you. The "logical" conclusion is that the entire galaxy ought to committ suicide right now. They'll die eventually, and there is no "logical" point in life.[/quote]

[quote]moronic.[/quote]
You really like that word, don't you?

[quote]Yes, the lives of everyone in hte galaxy apparently have no worth. That's hte "bigger thing".[/quote]
"Putting words in other people's mouths" seems to be your second favorite pastime, right after overusing the word "moronic". 

Let's look at my post:
"It needs to be saved, Lotion?

Shepard will only live a few more decades if s/he survives the Reaper Invasion.
The various races will go extinct sooner or later.

If you don't believe in something bigger than yourself, be it Aristotelian morals or who-knows-what, there is no
for the galaxy to be saved. Because it won't. You are just delaying the inevitable. And don't bring instincts to this. You claim to have let everything but logic behind you. The "logical" conclusion is that the entire galaxy ought to committ suicide right now. They'll die eventually, and there is no "logical" point in life. "

You aren't backtracking out of this one so easily, ol' boy. So, according to you, there is a logical point in life. I want to hear it. Because it doesn't exist. Everyone will end up dead anyway, sooner or later, it doesn't matter. We are after all, just a few particles of mass, according to your...ethics. The wanna-be consequentialist one.

If you are still not getting it, I am simply sniping at your "morals".
People aren't born with price tags hanging from their ears. Every human value is crafted by ethics. Do you think that Human Rights existed forever? No. Moral people made them. To maintain what they wisely valued as right, and to protect others towards who they felt empathy.

Ethics. Yes.

Next time you think that it's bad that people act on their morals, and the world needs to be saved, regardless if we become as monstrous, or even worse than our enemies, please bang your head in the wall until you suffer a mind-changing concussion.

[quote]You immoral, ignoramus.

Calling your abortion of morals and wordview something high andbetter. I'd weep, but tht would be wasting my tears. [/quote]
You'd cause amusement either way. To read a post discarding clean and pure "logic" which attacks your belief that people shouldn't act on what they feel right and recognize it as an amoralist worldview is beyond hillarious.

Modifié par Phaedon, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:41 .

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I hope you self-absorbed paragons of non-virtue finally get enlightened to the errors of your ways.

I hope that you enjoy battling 40% of the enemies of ME3.

[LPPrince]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I hope you self-absorbed paragons of non-virtue finally get enlightened to the errors of your ways.

I hope that you enjoy battling 40% of the enemies of ME3.

HEHEHEHEHEHEHE

I'm not really going to join this discussion, I just had to say I laughed at that really hard.

That 40% of baddie baddies are goin down hard. Them and their leader.

[Dean_the_Young]

*Yawn*

Can you people pick more interesting arguments, at least?

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


pšroven 

I genuinely want to know how you pronounce that. Is it similar to the German  " ß "

Nope.

It's actually pronounced like 1st voiced letter of sh*t.


I did explained that right?

[Someone With Mass]

If you think destroying the base is stupid, then I'd say that letting the derelict Reaper crash into a brown dwarf because of something that could have been easily avoided if anyone had used their brain before setting up shop was the greatest mistake in humanity's history.

[Iakus]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Human dominance WOULD be a good thing for humanity. I'm sure you have a vision of future with TIM sitting atop a throne of skulls lording over hte entire galaxy, but that is not how it works. Or would work.

I for one never go the impression that TIM wanst to rule over anything.

"The technology from that base could have secured human dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers and beyond"

"Human dominance?  Or just Cerberus?"

"Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human.  Cerberus is humanity"

Sounds like he wants humanity running everything.  And Cerberus running humanity.

But even setting that aside, Cerberus would just screw things up with the base.  I mean, yeah it's functioning Reaper technology that could teach us a lot., but just look at how well they handled the Derelict Reaper.  Like I say, Cerberus probably looses three operatives a day just turning on the coffee maker 

[Nashiktal]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Who gives a crab about the lives of everyone in the galaxy. We are all dead meat and bones anyway. Just very optimistic dead meat and bones. Optimistic about of choices, beliefs, those few extra years..

The reapers are right. They are ascending us away from this pointless existence. Just not in a way we would like or even understand. Not while we're still alive.

Lol just saying

What? We understand how they are ascending us just fine. The problem is their "ascension" is pathetic. They have managed to survive this long, but their time is over. Their plans have been failing one after another, they lost their vanguard.

They are not gods. Just dangerous machines that can be beaten. They are not the ultimate evolution, there is no such thing. Their failure to adapt will be the cause of their fall.

[KotorEffect3]

Nashiktal wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Who gives a crab about the lives of everyone in the galaxy. We are all dead meat and bones anyway. Just very optimistic dead meat and bones. Optimistic about of choices, beliefs, those few extra years..

The reapers are right. They are ascending us away from this pointless existence. Just not in a way we would like or even understand. Not while we're still alive.

Lol just saying

What? We understand how they are ascending us just fine. The problem is their "ascension" is pathetic. They have managed to survive this long, but their time is over. Their plans have been failing one after another, they lost their vanguard.

They are not gods. Just dangerous machines that can be beaten. They are not the ultimate evolution, there is no such thing. Their failure to adapt will be the cause of their fall.

But you have to admit most of them are cool to look at.

[Aimi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

*Yawn*

Can you people pick more interesting arguments, at least?

BSN...

Mesina2 wrote...

Nope.

It's actually pronounced like 1st voiced letter of sh*t.


I did explained that right?

Yeah, that's more or less right.

[Yakko77]

iakus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Human dominance WOULD be a good thing for humanity. I'm sure you have a vision of future with TIM sitting atop a throne of skulls lording over hte entire galaxy, but that is not how it works. Or would work.

I for one never go the impression that TIM wanst to rule over anything.

"The technology from that base could have secured human dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers and beyond"

"Human dominance?  Or just Cerberus?"

"Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human.  Cerberus is humanity"

Sounds like he wants humanity running everything.  And Cerberus running humanity.

But even setting that aside, Cerberus would just screw things up with the base.  I mean, yeah it's functioning Reaper technology that could teach us a lot., but just look at how well they handled the Derelict Reaper.  Like I say, Cerberus probably looses three operatives a day just turning on the coffee maker 

LOL!  OK, the coffee maker comment is funny because it has a ring of truth to it as much of the best comedy does.

One look at all those atrocities that took place at all those Cerberus labs we run into but somehow Cerberus gaining dominance will be beneficial to humanity....?  It's just... unfathomable.

This forum proves that politics isn't the only domain for insanity in action where repeating the same failures over and over again does NOT end in a different result.  If anyone thought Cerberus was bad before then imagine them in a position of major if not total influence on human policy and agenda and then imagine their experients on a industrial scale and not limited to covert and secret labs.  If that doesn't scare you then I hope to God you are never in a position in a official political office or a lab that has human lives it is responsible for.

[Izhalezan]

Star Trek red shirts have a higher survival rate then Cerberus personnel.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Phaedon wrote...

Is your own fictional creation. As one would expect, anyway.[/quote]

If you don't want me editing your owrds, don't edit mine.


[quote]
I am sure that if you tried to read a bit more carefully, you'd see that I specifically called TIM's actions frequently moronic, rather than "treating everyone as a moron". I reckon that you are doing it, when you mask your failures to come back with a proper rebuttal as complete dismissals of the argument. So I'll quote myself again. No problem, I can be very patient.[/quote]

Stupid argument remains stupid.

Aside from ressurecting Shep, no action of TIM can be described as moronic.
And TIM is after efficiency. He is after results.

Your redicolous ideathat he wants to build a human reaper is unsupportted. It is stupid. It doesn't fit TIM, it doesn't FIT Cerberius..it doesn't fit ANYONE. No one would do that...no one.
It just a too big, too long, too impractical waste of resources. And even if he wanted to, he couldn't. A human reaper would need millions of humans.



[quote]
[quote]You can't just say "X is an idiot so Y is exactly what he would do!". that's bollocks and you know it.
You know what? Anderson is an idiot. Hence I postulate he will shoot Shepard in the back. According to oyu, this makes perfect sense. [/quote]

No, it makes no sense, but that is alright, because you seem to have failed to read properly through my posts again. Morons are not bad people. They don't stab you in the back, not necessarily. Where did I say that TIM would stab you in the back because he is moronic? These are your own words, not mine. I certainly don't attribute his complete untrustworthiness to his potentically low intelligence.

I specifically said that just because it seems moronic to you, it doesn't seem that TIM won't do it.
In fact, I pointed out that TIM has indulged in even more far fetched and immature ideas. It's like giving thousands of dollars to an overexcited eleven year old on Christmas Eve. People can do stupid things if they have the means to do it.[/quote]

You fail to turn on your brain on a regular basis.

You got nothing. Thre's no reason for TIM to build a human reaper. And your logic is broken that I cna use it to attack anyone. Liek I did wiht Anderson. Didn't Grayson got loose because of him? Evne tough he knew about the reapers. Tell me that ins't moronic! so by that logic, Anderson is a moron. Hence he MUST do moronic thing in the future.
also, since shep did stupid thing, he'sa moron too.
See how easy it is?

Building a human reaper isn't moronic to me. It IS moronic. On ever level.



[quote]
But, let's get back to you.
Why did you make the logical connection between "idiot" and "back stabber", when no one mentioned something even close to that? Do you have a pathological fear of idiots? Is it an attempt at differentiating yourself from such a group? I honestly can't wait to find out![/quote]

Why? Because stabbing Shepard would be illogical and counterproductive. Just like building a human reaper. And yet you insist TIM would do it - excatly because it's illogical. Hence I insist Anderson would do it. Simply because it's stupid and he CAN do it.




[quote]
Anyway, my argument most certainly stands unanswered.
What makes you think that TIM wouldn't do it? Because it is stupid?
Fanatical ultranationalism is stupid. So what?[/quote] 






[quote]
I insist that TIM may very go for it, firstly, because he didn't deny that option, and secondly because a lot of similar projects could be described as "wastes of resources, inefficient, ineffective, illogical and stupid."[/quote]

No, they can't. Youre talking aout of your a**.
And like I siad - he didn't needot deny. It's so stupid it warrants no denial.


[quote]
Anyway, I explained my reasons. Now explain why you think that they won't do it. They have gone for such "wastes of resources" in the past, that is well established. Is it simply because you love TIM almost as passionately as you do Cerberus?[/quote]

No it isn't established. A human reaper is NOT conductive to their goal, is NOT practical, is NOT feasable, does NOT bring results fast, etc, etc - it is everying people like TIM should HATE.




[quote]
Either way it has been established once more that Project Lazarus was what you would consider a "waste of resources". As such, any other "waste of resources" may very well end up in the canonical timeline of the MEverse, be it an exception to the rule or not.[/quote]

I wouldnt' call researching tech to brign back dead a "waste".
Slecting Shep might have been tough...


[quote]
[quote]and it worked. No points for you.[/quote]No it did not.[/quote]TI catapulted hte understanding of geth and proved they CAN be controlled. I'd say that is a big plus. And triyng to control Gethis not stupid.





[quote]
Blame Anderson and Turians.[/quote]
I need not. Again, you seem to have serious problems comprehending written text. Never did I accuse TIMmy and co. of unleashing a human wrecking ball across the galaxy. What I did, rather, was them establishing connection with the Reapers, which, hint, hint, gave them a LOT of intel about humanity.

Not only was the whole project ineffective, it was also not well thought out, and to be frank, to put it in your own words, "moronic".[/quote]

No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic. But then agian, I assume you will categorize everythingCerberus does as moronic, out of some compulsive need to do so to justify your broken viewpoint..



[quote]
[quote]
Project Human Reaper.[/quote]

that's your fantasy head canon?[/quote]
Nosireebob, I do not have masochistic fantasies.

What I do, however, is point out potential projects which TIM didn't deny in expressing interest towards and compare them to other (failed) Cerberus projects, further demolishing your idea of "moronic" and "waste of resources".
[/quote]

So it is your fantasy. Dont' use things that never happened as proof. but wihout that oyu got nothing I guerss.
There never was a "human repaer" project. There is no indication there ever will be one.

you have proven nothing. Yoiu have demolished nothing - except your own credibility.




[quote][quote]
Reapers >>>> Cerberus
Priorities... Dude... You could learn a bit about that.[/quote]

Aha! So you then accept that TIM could fancy making a single Reaper? I mean, your post is supposed to be a reply to that specific portion of my post. A single Reaper who has no chance against a single Reaper fleet?[/quote]

No, I dont' accept your delusional fantasiees.





[quote][quote]
According to you, all that TIM does is affirm that he'd put his own goals before anything else.[/quote]

so do you apprently. So what? His goal is to defeat the reapers.[/quote]

Source? All I have heard is about advancing humanity. He definitely doesn't want to destroy the Reapers, actually. And don't accuse me of metagaming. We are discussing TIM's "morality" and his record of failures.[/quote]

And his record is good enough.
You are a hypocrite wiht doublestandard. That has been proven already.



[quote]
You aren't backtracking out of this one so easily, ol' boy. So, according to you, there is a logical point in life. I want to hear it. Because it doesn't exist. Everyone will end up dead anyway, sooner or later, it doesn't matter. We are after all, just a few particles of mass, according to your...ethics. The wanna-be consequentialist one.[/quote]

I don't need to backtrack, because youre not making any sense. Find me a quite where I specificly say that there is a logical point in life. You won't. But it doesn't matter.
You are again, using philospohical bulls*** to justify your genocide.

[quote]
If you are still not getting it, I am simply sniping at your "morals".
People aren't born with price tags hanging from their ears. Every human value is crafted by ethics. Do you think that Human Rights existed forever? No. Moral people made them. To maintain what they wisely valued as right, and to protect others towards who they felt empathy.[/qujote]

And interesting that YOU are the one assiging value and judging people - deciding if they are "worthy" to live or not. Not me. I'm not making any value judgments. I'm not saiyng that Timmy should die because the galaxy doesn't conform to my morals.
You are the one who casts out and proclaim millions of women and children (even those unborn) as worthless. Their lives are worthless. Their future is worthless. Their culture is worthless. Just because they are trying to survive. Yes, that's their big crime. Survival.

[quote]
Ethics. Yes.
Next time you think that it's bad that people act on their morals, and the world needs to be saved, regardless if we become as monstrous, or even worse than our enemies, please bang your head in the wall until you suffer a mind-changing concussion.[/quote]

Become as monstrous? Loosing all worth?
You already have become a monster. A monster willing to sacrifice anyone and anything for your own piece of mind.

Don't talk to me about ethics. You couldn't recognize them if they ran you over in a dreadnought.



[quote]
You'd cause amusement either way. To read a post discarding clean and pure "logic" which attacks your belief that people shouldn't act on what they feel right and recognize it as an amoralist worldview is beyond hillarious.
[/quote]

There's is nothing clean and pure in what you said. And neither do you describe my belief correctly.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...

If you think destroying the base is stupid, then I'd say that letting the derelict Reaper crash into a brown dwarf because of something that could have been easily avoided if anyone had used their brain before setting up shop was the greatest mistake in humanity's history.

Indeed. Sheppard should have killed himself rather than destroy the core. Or call for help and hunker somewhere and wait. Anything BUT destroyingthe giant piece of evidence.
But Shepard is just that moronic.

[Lotion Soronarr]

iakus wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Human dominance WOULD be a good thing for humanity. I'm sure you have a vision of future with TIM sitting atop a throne of skulls lording over hte entire galaxy, but that is not how it works. Or would work.

I for one never go the impression that TIM wanst to rule over anything.

"The technology from that base could have secured human dominance in the galaxy against the Reapers and beyond"

"Human dominance?  Or just Cerberus?"

"Strength for Cerberus is strength for every human.  Cerberus is humanity"

Sounds like he wants humanity running everything.  And Cerberus running humanity.

Reading into things, aren't we?
Projectio nadn personalization is quite common in the human language..we're usualyl not even aware of it. When taking about their footbal teams, people often say "we"..like they are part of it.

So no - there's nothing indication TIM wants ot RULE ZE WORLD.
If he wanted that, he would have run for president/Councilor. Not spend 20 years in the dark trying to fight the reapers.

But even setting that aside, Cerberus would just screw things up with the base.  I mean, yeah it's functioning Reaper technology that could teach us a lot., but just look at how well they handled the Derelict Reaper.  Like I say, Cerberus probably looses three operatives a day just turning on the coffee maker 

Huh..this "argument" again.Cerberus isn't nearkly as inefficient as poeple claim.
And even if Cerb looses people - so what? They are Cerberus personell and you don't care about them, right?

[OrdinaryTenant]

I can kinda see where Cerberus is coming from. I mean, the Mass Effect galaxy is a pretty brutal and vicious place and filled with alot of very nasty people when you get right down to it.

You can't drop someone in the middle of a jungle and then hold them out for special blame when they start acting like beasts.

Modifié par OrdinaryTenant, 28 janvier 2012 - 10:08 .