[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...
If you don't want me editing your owrds, don't edit mine.[/quote]
Your imagination is still manufacturing things. You created an all new exchange that you wish would happen. I merely pointed out that you spoke for no one but yourself, and that you certainly didn't prove anything. No one but yourself accepts that anyway. When, however, you talk to yourself and admit that "you have nothing", well that's a bit worrying, I reckon.
[quote][quote]
I am sure that if you tried to read a bit more carefully, you'd see that I specifically called TIM's actions frequently moronic, rather than "treating everyone as a moron". I reckon that you are doing it, when you mask your failures to come back with a proper rebuttal as complete dismissals of the argument. So I'll quote myself again. No problem, I can be very patient.[/quote]
Stupid argument remains stupid.
Aside from ressurecting Shep, no action of TIM can be described as moronic.[/quote]
Logical contradiction.
I accept that X has done stupid things in the past, but there is no reason for X to do stupid things in the future.
[quote]And TIM is after efficiency. He is after results.[/quote]
TIM is his after his own goals, and that's that. He passed valuable intel on humanity just to see how indoctrination works. Saren managed to study indoctrination without a single turian victim, therefore, he is inefficient and moronic.
Anything about efficiency and results is pulled out of thin air. It is your personal interpretation of the character, and is unprovable, as there is any source that conclusively proves such wild claims.
[quote]Your redicolous[/quote]
This is the fourth time you get this word wrong. I have pointed it out to you, Spell Check has pointed out to you. Why continue to do it, regardless of the big red line under it?
[quote]ideathat he wants to build a human reaper is unsupportted. It is stupid. It doesn't fit TIM, it doesn't FIT Cerberius..it doesn't fit ANYONE. No one would do that...no one.[/quote]
Wrong.
Not only has he not denied the idea that he could do it, not only have you accepted in your previous post that he would do it, but you have also accepted that he has done stupid things in the past, without his judgement being clouded. As a result, it is a logical anticipation for TIM to repeat his stupid line of action, especially when he is desperate, and he is race, towards he is supposedly so devoted towards is one step from extinction.
[quote]It just a too big, too long, too impractical waste of resources. And even if he wanted to, he couldn't. A human reaper would need millions of humans.[/quote]
Further logical contradiction. Genetic goo does not instill intelligence or power to the Reapers. You have, yourself said that you may be giving a criminal group a big dreadnaught. The danger that the Reapers pose is maintained in their synthetic components.
[quote]You fail to turn on your brain on a regular basis.[/quote]
Oooh, another failure to address a portion of my post, turned into a desperate half-arsed insult here, try again:
[quote]
[quote]You can't just say "X is an idiot so Y is exactly what he would do!". that's bollocks and you know it.
You know what? Anderson is an idiot. Hence I postulate he will shoot Shepard in the back. According to oyu, this makes perfect sense. [/quote]
No, it makes no sense, but that is alright, because you seem to have failed to read properly through my posts again. Morons are not bad people. They don't stab you in the back, not necessarily. Where did I say that TIM would stab you in the back because he is moronic? These are your own words, not mine. I certainly don't attribute his complete untrustworthiness to his potentically low intelligence.
I specifically said that just because it seems moronic to you, it doesn't seem that TIM won't do it.
In fact, I pointed out that TIM has indulged in even more far fetched and immature ideas. It's like giving thousands of dollars to an overexcited eleven year old on Christmas Eve. People can do stupid things if they have the means to do it.[/quote]
And no, really, you have managed to mistake gravity for magnetism the last time you were desperate. I can't wait where this will get you this time.
[quote]You got nothing. There's no reason for TIM to build a human reaper. And your logic is broken that I can use it to attack anyone. Like I did with Anderson. Didn't Grayson get loose because of him? Even tough he knew about the reapers. Tell me that isn'tmoronic! So by that logic, Anderson is a moron. Hence he MUST do moronic thing in the future.
Also, since Shep did stupid thing, he's a moron too.
See how easy it is?[/quote]
First off, I edited your post to make it somewhat readable. Use SpellCheck in the future.
I actually like how you failed to answer to my post and just repeat your previous point. It's OK, it's always fun to see you not even try to backtrack but just repeat the same thing again and again.
1) If you do a stupid thing once, it is likely that you will do it again, yes.
2) TIM did more than one stupid things. He has a record in that sort of stuff. In fact, fanatical ultranationalism is stupid by itself.
3) Anderson helped plan the raid. He didn't take a part in it, and he didn't issue any orders.
4) Even if they had known that TIM could indoctrinate people, they'd think that he'd be smart enough to not use it on the human hostage. They would be wrong. However, they knew nothing of the sort. Grayson was considered a harmless hostage during the entirety of the operation, and as such, the fact that Grayson went loose is certainly not their mistake, as it was their very goal.
5) Anderson didn't get "Grayson loose".
6) People who show repeat reading comprehension issues, both while reading books and online may be stupid.
7) TIM's problem is not merely his stupidity. I don't assume that stupid people will backstab me. That would be you, and your pathological fear towards people who you consider to have lower intelligence than you.
8) You clearly make no attempt at reading or thinking. TIM is stupid AND ruthless AND not loyal at all. Therefore, not trustworthy. Instead, you just blame Anderson for being potentially stupid. Better luck next time.
[quote]Building a human reaper isn't moronic to me. It IS moronic. On ever level.[/quote]
No more moronic than trying to indoctrinate an entire race just by smooth talking to them, developing overglorified jenisars, learning how to rebuild and rebuilding someone with no investigative skills to investigate the random extinction of human colonies.
If build an HR seems moronic to you, then we can just agree that TIM is a moron.
[quote]Why? Because stabbing Shepard would be illogical and counterproductive. [/quote]
Well, sh*t son, it already happenned.
Yes, TIM is an idiot.
You chose to play with the fire, you got burned.
You were wrong, others were right.
I just wish that it was your hand that was burned not any internal components of your body.
[quote]Just like building a human reaper. And yet you insist TIM would do it - excatly because it's illogical. Hence I insist Anderson would do it. Simply because it's stupid and he CAN do it.[/quote]
No, that's what you think that I am saying, simply because you aren't very good at reading comprehension.
TIM wouldn't do it because he is stupid. He would do it because he is stupid and ruthless and unloyal to Shepard.
You just seem to not agree that people can be ruthless or unloyal, which falls in line with your utter lack of ethics.
[quote][quote]
Anyway, my argument most certainly stands unanswered.
What makes you think that TIM wouldn't do it? Because it is stupid?
Fanatical ultranationalism is stupid. So what?[/quote] [/quote]
So, you just quoted a portion of my post and didn't even answer it? Lol.
[quote]And like I siad - he didn't needot deny. It's so stupid it warrants no denial.[/quote]
He replied to the question specifically and he said "I'd do anything". So much for warranting no reply, heh.
[quote]No, they can't. Youre talking aout of your a**.[/quote]
Cute.
But have another go at trying to reply to my post:
[quote]
I insist that TIM may very go for it, firstly, because he didn't deny that option, and secondly because a lot of similar projects could be described as "wastes of resources, inefficient, ineffective, illogical and stupid."[/quote]
[quote][quote]
Anyway, I explained my reasons. Now explain why you think that they won't do it. They have gone for such "wastes of resources" in the past, that is well established. Is it simply because you love TIM almost as passionately as you do Cerberus?[/quote]
No it isn't established. A human reaper is NOT conductive to their goal, is NOT practical, is NOT feasable, does NOT bring results fast, etc, etc - it is everying people like TIM should HATE.[/quote]
Aha!
Contra-di-ction time!
You have just admitted, twice, that TIM has done stupid things on the past. Therefore, it is established that TIM has gone for such "wastes of resources". Your personal interpretation of the antagonist matters not. What matters is that you claim that TIM will not go for it. Simply because it is a waste of resources. When in fact, in the very same post, you accept that TIM has gone for such "wastes of resources" in the past.
As a result, the "it's a waste of resources so he won't do it" argument is invalid and self-contradictive.
[quote]
Either way it has been established once more that Project Lazarus was what you would consider a "waste of resources". As such, any other "waste of resources" may very well end up in the canonical timeline of the MEverse, be it an exception to the rule or not.[/quote]
I wouldnt' call researching tech to brign back dead a "waste".
Slecting Shep might have been tough...[/quote][/quote]
And I wouldn't call creating a super duper dreadnaught a waste of resources by itself. It's all a matter of context. Researching how to bring back the dead for a SINGLE person, and having him or her find out who is abducting human colonies, regardless of their lack of investigative skills.
Now, that's what I call a huge waste of resources.
[quote]
Slecting [/quote]
What.
[quote]TI catapulted hte understanding of geth[/QUOTE]
Source?
[quote]and proved they CAN be controlled. I'd say that is a big plus. And triyng to control Gethis not stupid.[/quote]
It proved the exact opposite, which is why the whole concept of the Project Overlord was stupid.
Only a mathematical savant was able to communicate with them. Not a machine, a human. This is well established, as they had to tie up David and force him to relay orders. The problem with humans, however, you see, is that they need to sleep.
If a machine couldn't replicate David's thought process, no one could. And since David is a single person, David needs to sleep, or he'll go gaga, coockoo. Which he did.
[quote]
No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic. [/quote]
HOLY BATMAN. What an amazing argument you got there. Let's close our ears, slip into denial and repeat what Lotion said:
"No, the project was going very well! IT'S not moronic!"
"No, the project was going very well! IT'S not moronic!"
"No, the project was going very well! IT'S not moronic!"
"No, the project was going very well! IT'S not moronic!"
"No, the project was going very well! IT'S not moronic!"
Let us also not provide any further argumentantion, because otherwise, we won't fall under the trope of the fanatical propaganda-driven blackshirts. Anyway, here is the portion of my post you failed to reply towards:
[quote]I need not. Again, you seem to have serious problems comprehending written text. Never did I accuse TIMmy and co. of unleashing a human wrecking ball across the galaxy. What I did, rather, was them establishing connection with the Reapers, which, hint, hint, gave them a LOT of intel about humanity.[/quote]
[quote]But then agian, I assume you will categorize everythingCerberus does as moronic, out of some compulsive need to do so to justify your broken viewpoint..[/quote]
By all means, I will indeed admit that Cerberus are master morons, seeing as they chose to give to the Reapers all that they needed to know about humanity. Stupid, untrustworthy and unloyal. Yep.
[quote]So it is your fantasy.[/quote]
No, I specifically said that I have as many masochistic fantasies, as much as you are skillfull at reading.
[quote]Dont' use things that never happened as proof. but wihout that oyu got nothing I guerss.
There never was a "human repaer" project. There is no indication there ever will be one.[/quote]
Yeah, just as I said, as skillful as you are at reading.
[quote]
What I do, however, is point out potential projects which TIM didn't deny in expressing interest towards and compare them to other (failed) Cerberus projects, further demolishing your idea of "moronic" and "waste of resources". [/quote]
It is funny, because you ask me for indications and to stop speculating, while quoting the same post that addresses both of those.
[quote]Yoiu have demolished nothing - except your own credibility.[/quote]
Magnetism.
[quote][quote][quote]
Reapers >>>> Cerberus
Priorities... Dude... You could learn a bit about that.[/quote]
Aha! So you then accept that TIM could fancy making a single Reaper? I mean, your post is supposed to be a reply to that specific portion of my post. A single Reaper who has no chance against a single Reaper fleet?[/quote]
No, I dont' accept your delusional fantasiees.[/quote]
That is OK. I will keep quoting your post until you explain what you meant.
Well, not really. I know what you mean, I just want to see you desperately trying to get out of the hole you have dug. There's your post, go explain it.
[quote][quote][quote]
According to you, all that TIM does is affirm that he'd put his own goals before anything else.[/quote]
so do you apprently. So what? His goal is to defeat the reapers.[/quote]
Source? All I have heard is about advancing humanity. He definitely doesn't want to destroy the Reapers, actually. And don't accuse me of metagaming. We are discussing TIM's "morality" and his record of failures.[/quote]
And his record is good enough.[/quote]
His record of failures? Of course.
Anyway, I'll be requoting my post, because, once again, you have utterly failed at replying towards it:
[quote][quote]
According to you, all that TIM does is affirm that he'd put his own goals before anything else.[/quote]
so do you apprently. So what? His goal is to defeat the reapers.[/quote]
Source? All I have heard is about advancing humanity. He definitely doesn't want to destroy the Reapers, actually. And don't accuse me of metagaming. We are discussing TIM's "morality" and his record of failures.
[quote]
You aren't backtracking out of this one so easily, ol' boy. So, according to you, there is a logical point in life. I want to hear it. Because it doesn't exist. Everyone will end up dead anyway, sooner or later, it doesn't matter. We are after all, just a few particles of mass, according to your...ethics. The wanna-be consequentialist one.[/quote]
I don't need to backtrack, because youre not making any sense. Find me a quite where I specificly say that there is a logical point in life. You won't. But it doesn't matter.
You are again, using philospohical bulls*** to justify your genocide.[/quote]
I'll do that exactly.
You accuse us of having "messed up morals", specifically replying to the notion that "It's better to die fighting than turn into your worst enemy". Of course, you are again, full of sh*t. The only value of life is given to it by ethics.
[quote][quote]
If you are still not getting it, I am simply sniping at your "morals".
People aren't born with price tags hanging from their ears. Every human value is crafted by ethics. Do you think that Human Rights existed forever? No. Moral people made them. To maintain what they wisely valued as right, and to protect others towards who they felt empathy.[/qujote]
And interesting that YOU are the one assiging value and judging people - deciding if they are "worthy" to live or not. Not me. [/quote]
But, alas, Lotion, I find it more intriguing that you are not assigning values to people.
I, and anyone else who believes in ethics, have assigned an equal value towards all people, considering all as equally worthy. You on the other hand, see every human as nothing but your personal toys, them holding no value at all, only existing to help you succeed in your goals.
Our lives are by themselves, of no value at all. We will eventually all die, anyway.
Our lives have value because we choose to give them one. And when we choose to value our lives, we choose the way of self-respect and respect towards the lives of others. We don't kill people unless we can avoid it, we don't brainwash anyone, and we sure as hell don't control an entire race to do our own bidding.
And yet, it is you who compares humans to bacteria.
Creatures of no importance, past their own survival.
There are worse things in life, than in death, and to think the opposite is a direct effect of cowardice upon facing your own mortality.
[quote]I'm not making any value judgments. I'm not saiyng that Timmy should die because the galaxy doesn't conform to my morals.[/quote]
And that is you, but it is not me.
No one talked about killing TIM, unless absolutely necessary, but rather of stopping him from claiming any more lives. That needed to happen since ME2, and the revelations of ME3 make this even more important. And, hey if TIM even redeems himself through actual remorse, everyone is a winner.
What you, however, do, is dumb down TIM's hundreds if not thousands of direct victims as a mere difference in opinion, further showing what a monstrosity you have turned yourself into.
[quote]You are the one who casts out and proclaim millions of women and children (even those unborn) as worthless. Their lives are worthless. Their future is worthless. Their culture is worthless. Just because they are trying to survive. Yes, that's their big crime. Survival.[/quote]
Maybe in your wildest dreams. The mere choice of people dumbing down themselves to flesh and bones and nothing else doesn't make them immoral or even criminal. They are as worthy of saving as everyone else.
And we are talking about you personally here. You dismiss morals completely, yet you claim to be more than flesh and bone. You are lying to yourself.
Just as you are lying to yourself and everyone else when you proclaim that ethical people consider other people worthless. You have just accused them of actually putting "value" and "worthiness" to people, when they should not, and then you go ahead and accuse them of considering everyone but them as "worthless".
Let's see you backtrack out of this one, big boy.
[quote][quote]
Ethics. Yes.
Next time you think that it's bad that people act on their morals, and the world needs to be saved, regardless if we become as monstrous, or even worse than our enemies, please bang your head in the wall until you suffer a mind-changing concussion.[/quote]
Become as monstrous? Loosing all worth?
You already have become a monster. A monster willing to sacrifice anyone and anything for your own piece of mind.
Don't talk to me about ethics. You couldn't recognize them if they ran you over in a dreadnought.[/quote]
Dreadnoughts can't run over people. They are in space.
You dismiss any worth of the human life, and then accuse moralists of assigning worthiness to people, equally.
You certainly need someone to sit down by you and teach you some basic ethics.
Your irrational fear of death is the one which has rendered you incapable of understanding that it is worse to convict millions of people to a life of suffering, without any respect to any life but their own , than keeping them alive for a few more decades.
[quote][quote]
You'd cause amusement either way. To read a post discarding clean and pure "logic" which attacks your belief that people shouldn't act on what they feel right and recognize it as an amoralist worldview is beyond hillarious.
[/quote]
There's is nothing clean and pure in what you said. And neither do you describe my belief correctly.
[/quote][/quote]
It's OK Lotion. You aren't very good at reading, so I'll just quote myself again and again.
[quote]
You'd cause amusement either way. To read a post discarding clean and pure "logic" which attacks your belief that people shouldn't act on what they feel right and recognize it as an amoralist worldview is beyond hillarious. [/quote]
Since you can clearly not get this into your head, for the second time in a row, I'll just explain that "discard" stands for "abolish". Not "support". Regardless of what you wish I was saying.
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But then we won't know the full story till the game is released.
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