1482 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
You have no arguments. You are jsut lookign for anything - regardles how far-fetched or redicolous - in an vain attempt to justify your decisions.

It is true, then:

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic.

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic.

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic.

 

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
No, the project was goign very well IT's not moronic.

 

Let's repeat after me, guys.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

Omilophile wrote...
Whether or not I have served in the military is none of your business, nor is it relevant to the discussion. We're on a forum for a damn video game. Besides, why should I care if everybody dies in the process, as long as I'm alive? Survival at any means, right?

So, why exactly is it that you want to survive? 

Why do you want to survive?
Becase life is precious. You only got one.
Or simply...just because. No explanation is necessary.

Hence why your earlier posts are senseless.

[incinerator950]

Omilophile wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

If you've served anything more than a desk job, you'd learn more about the Government beurocracy and wouldn't be surprised at the things people have to do.

 
Yeah, I suppose you're some hardcore motherf***ing high speed, low drag badass. Rangers? Delta? Pararescue? 479 confirmed kills? That about right?  

This is almost amusing to read.  No, you don't need a special forces background to do your job, get screwed over for doing your job, and then get sent home.  Serve the front lines, hell, serve the normal ratings that are outside supply in a box, and you'll see that.  

Since you're the one whose acting so tough, you're too important to go sign up for grunt work anyway.  Even Airman or Naval duty. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

DJBare wrote...
Now I have a question for you, if winning meant forcing your family and friends into those pods, would you do it?

Not if I can find someone else (like murders or criminals) or there is time to find another way.
But if there was no one else, and the survival of everyone in the galaxy was at stake..I'd be the first one to enter a pod.

Wanting to do something, and doing it anyway because there really isn't a choice...two completley different things.

[Lotion Soronarr]

And speaking of "nothing justifies killing/murder".

How exactly do you justify the genophage?
Or the Rachnni extinction?
Or what Shep did in Arrival?
Or shooting own a highjacked plane wiht bio-gas?

Either there is no justification - PERIOD... In whihc case shep should kill himself for being an evil bastard.
Or there apparently is one.

[Phaedon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why do you want to survive?
Becase life is precious. You only got one.
Or simply...just because. No explanation is necessary.

Hence why your earlier posts are senseless.

Is that also why you are repeating what I am saying?

Life isn't precious because you are born with a price tag.
Life is precious because billions of us accept it as precious.
If you accept your life as precious, you must also accept the lives of everyone as equally precious.
If you don't care "if others die in the process" of your own survival, you may as well not care if you don't survive.

Or simply...just because. No explanation is necessary. 

Primitive instincts? The instinct of empathy is also hardwired in our brains. So what? Your life is still not any more precious than that of anyone else.

[Omilophile]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Omilophile wrote...
Survival at any means is a crutch for the weak and fearful. Fear drives you, because you're afraid that what you have won't be enough. I don't need to stoop to a twisted, subhuman level to win. The reason is because you win no matter what thanks to game designers lol. Therefore Cerberus is unnecessary.

Those who are not prepared to fight for their survival tooth and nail are weak.
And your argument is flimsy adn stupid. "you will win no matter what" is not an argument.

It's like saing that Shepard deactivating his barriers and walking right into enemy fire is not a stupid thing for Shep to do, because the palyer cna always relaod a save game.

That one was actually a joke, believe it or not. I could've come up with a decent rebuttal, but I had already grown impatient waiting for an album to download, so I just thought, "Eh, what the hell. It'll do".

[incinerator950]

AlexXIV wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well I was expecting that things make sense. So yeah, my expectations were different.

That's vague enough as to be meaningless. You have to define better: what would you consider a sensible premise, and what wouldn't you.


You've argued against multiple things simaltaneously: the only one I particularly find non-sensical is the Council not believing in the Reapers.

The rest is flawed execution, not senseless premise. That the Council might not want to get involved in the Terminus? Plenty of reasons that could make sense. Greater priorities elsewhere. A lack of desire for a Terminus War.

That Shepard would end up having to work with Cerberus? Reasonable, depending on the circumstances. Cerberus has the ability to operate where the Alliance and Council can't, the Terminus.

One question would be why is something the business of a Council Spectre if it is not the business of the Council. It's not like the meeting between Shepard and the Council is official. At least I don't consider them to be. So basically Shep doesn't get support from his superiours, not even inofficial. At best they look the other way so Shep can do whatever he wants. I don't understand either why Udina and Anderson seem to not care about the abductions of colonies when in ME1 Udina asks for Council support for human colonies.

My problem in ME2 is that the Alliance/Council are basically inactive. They go dormant like the Reapers or something. The only thing they do is sending the VS to Horizons with what result? None really. They didn't trust Shepard to begin with because of Cerberus, send the VS to investigate and the result is that nothing happens. The VS sees what Collectors do to the colonies, sees how Shep saves half the colony while the VS him or herselfs probably hides under a rock or something but ... what is the consequence? That the VS is disappointed that Shep works with Cerberus.

What exactly is the problem there? Why does nobody care about Collectors, Reapers, human colonies? In my opinion just to give the stage to Cerberus. It makes no sense that nobody aside from Cerberus cares. Anderson is the fricken councilor now. Honeslty, Shepard knows the whole alliance lead. Udina, Anderson, Hackett, the soon-to be Spectre VS. They believe him about the Reapers, send him to extra missions (Arrival) but they don't do ANYTHING to help. What is Shepard to them, really? All they have against Shep is a rumor placed by TIM that Shep 'is with Cerberus'.

Then you fly with your Cerberus vessel right into the Citadel. You dock at the Citadel. With a Cerberus vessel, Cerberus logo, Ai on board, probably Geth on board, etc. Why is the ship not confiscated. Explain that. Because Shep's a spectre? Spectre status doesn't mean anything. Or they would not treat you like a double agent. I mean at one side they don't trust you and then again they do. If they WANT you to work with Cerberus they can just say so. It's an official meeting and everyone taking part probably has highest security priority. Why not just say Shep, we want you to stop the Collectors with Cerberus, but don't trust them so do what you have to do and get the hell out. But instead they act as if it's Shepard's choice and Shepard's business. I never ****ing chose to work with Cerberus. The only reason I can see is that the Alliance/Council drop their greatest hero/asset for no apparent reason other than leaving Cerberus the stage in ME2.

I mean if I was Councilor, especially Anderson, I would be curious. Why is Shep not dead. Why is he working with Cerberus. How did it happen, etc. I mean in the real world. If a CIA agent returns after his superiors thought he was dead, what would happen? Would they just let him go to whatever he thinks has to do or would they make hearing, etc. What happens in ME3, the hearing, should have happened in ME2. Guys, Shepard is back. Let's not treat it like nothing happened and it doesn't concern us. But no, they decide that it is somehow not their business, they give Shepard leave to do whatever he wants as long as he stays in the Terminus and then give him an assignment to deal with the missing research team. And when then 300000 slavers die in the Terminus it is suddenly an issue because Shepard was there.

Sorry but nothing of this makes sense. If you can't see that ok, but that's not how politics work, that's not how military work, it's not even how companies work. It is just a silly story that doesn't even try to make sense. I can easily believe that Bioware is making up the story as they go, because it reads exactly like that. What do I care what I said yesterday, today we have a new idea and we are not looking back.

You know, TIM would never have revived Shepard. And know why? Because Shepard wouldn't work with him. But TIM doesn't concern with the question whether Shepard will screw him over. Because the plot says so. Shepard is not taking the Normandy to the Citadel to let the Alliance have it, pick it apart, unlock the AI, etc. Because that would be the reasonable thing to do. Shepard just believes TIM that they did nothing to him. TIM said in Shep's reconstruction they didn't put any drones or anything into him and who are we to not believe him? He is a reasonable guy after all. I mean there is no reason to let the alliance check on all the implants etc, we just assume everything is ok. And the Normandy. Well there is certainly no need to let the Alliance check the systems and AI if TIM has put any suprises in there. After all TIM is, as I said, quite the trustworthy guy.

Are you really telling me that what Shep does after his revival makes sense? It only makes sense for a Renegade Shep who never thought much of the Alliance or Council anyway and who would rather trust TIM. I mean Shep could as well be a running time bomb and TIM holding the trigger without anyone even thinking of it. Same with the Normandy. They have a ****ing illegal AI on board and all they do about is giving Shepard a line that shows that he doesn't like AIs but then we go over to business as usually because obviously we have no options to remove the AI or whatever.

Sorry but after ME1 the story just stopped making sense. I don't know what else to say if you can't see that. Shepard should have returned to the alliance, should have ordered to check the Normandy, check himself and his implants and decided with the Alliance/Council and maybe other Spectres what are the next steps. But instead Shepard doesn't care, the Council doesn't care and the Alliance doesn't care. The only thing this would make sense is when the Alliance/Council have an own project going on. If they knew everything about Shepard, Liara, the SB, Cerberus. I'm curious if we learn more in ME3 why nobody cares about obvious problems/threads in ME2 or if they will just go on like nothing happened.

The human race is at stake, you need to accomplish that goal of saving them first.  Going back to the Alliance would have done nothing.  Shepard would have been imprisoned for six months like the Investigative committee anounced to Hacket.  Hacket denied that request because he knew Shepard would get it done.  If anything, turning himself in would have progressed nothing.  Cerberus had to happen, stop omitting the possibilities, and accept what already happened.  Accepting that what happened doesn't mean you have to like it.  

Shepard was dead, Cerberus revived him.  Alliance was either rebuilding, or not in a political position to accept its colonies. 

ME 1's colonies are in Alliance Space.  Terminus Human Colonies do not fit in that role.  The Turians would not come to the rescue of a Turian colony attacked by pirates in the Terminus systems.  Its politics, and its the system that stabilizes that region of space.  You don't have to like it, you have to save people in whatever way you can.  Cerberus has the intel and the resources to do it outside the Council authority. 

[incinerator950]

This was a waste of a message.

Modifié par incinerator950, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:26 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...
* SNIP*

:huh:



This poem makes more sense than your post.....

[Lotion Soronarr]

Phaedon wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Why do you want to survive?
Becase life is precious. You only got one.
Or simply...just because. No explanation is necessary.

Hence why your earlier posts are senseless.

Is that also why you are repeating what I am saying?

Life isn't precious because you are born with a price tag.
Life is precious because billions of us accept it as precious.
If you accept your life as precious, you must also accept the lives of everyone as equally precious.
If you don't care "if others die in the process" of your own survival, you may as well not care if you don't survive.

Then why don't you accept the lives of everyone in the galaxy to be more precious than you ease of mind?

[incinerator950]

Lotion, his post makes perfect sense. You don't have to agree with it, but it makes perfect sense from his perspective.

[Someone With Mass]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The derelict was perfectly fine where it was, there were no indication it is in danger of falling, so there was no rush to move it.

Except that they had no control over it. What if it fails or suddenly discharges into the Reaper's hull? Then everyone aboard is as good as dead. Controlled environment. It's easier to work that way.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
You have no arguments. You are jsut lookign for anything - regardles how far-fetched or redicolous - in an vain attempt to justify your decisions.

My argument is that they should have taken the Reaper out of the gravitational pull of the brown dwarf and look for a way to disable its systems before putting airlocks, research stations and whatnot in it.

It's not RIDICULOUS (seriously, learn how to spell it) or far-fetched. It's something most people would have done before starting to work on something. Remove as many security and health hazards as possible.

Being dependant on a pretty unreliable and unpredictable machine is not a good thing.

[OrdinaryTenant]

Does anyone know if Akuze was a deliberate trap? I mean did Cerberus/the Alliance even know that Shepard's platoon was walking into a thresher maw nest? Tela Vasir sure seemed to thinks so, but she was spiteful and cruel.

[incinerator950]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The derelict was perfectly fine where it was, there were no indication it is in danger of falling, so there was no rush to move it.

Except that they had no control over it. What if it fails or suddenly discharges into the Reaper's hull? Then everyone aboard is as good as dead. Controlled environment. It's easier to work that way.

Lotion Soronnar wrote... 
You have no arguments. You are jsut lookign for anything - regardles how far-fetched or redicolous - in an vain attempt to justify your decisions.

My argument is that they should have taken the Reaper out of the gravitational pull of the brown dwarf and look for a way to disable its systems before putting airlocks, research stations and whatnot in it.

It's not RIDICULOUS (seriously, learn how to spell it) or far-fetched. It's something most people would have done before starting to work on something. Remove as many security and health hazards as possible.

Being dependant on a pretty unreliable and unpredictable machine is not a good thing.

Cerberus isn't known for safety protocols or telling everyone that a thirty seven million old sentient machine could still have active machinery, and the warning of indoctrination. 

[Goneaviking]

incinerator950 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

I don't think anyone here denies all the extremely helpful things Cerberus has done, but a few good deeds should not acquit them of the evils they have committed. Paul Grayson's forced augmentation with Reaper tech was going way too far (as were several other things). Justify it however you want, but you have to draw the line somewhere. "Results at any cost" is pointless and amoral. If we get rid of everything that makes us human, then we might as well just give up and die, because humanity is already extinct.

Another one that judges all of humantiy and wants it dead? We're not loosing our "humanity", nor do we become "worthless".

As "evil" as it is, Paul Graysons augmentation was the best way to study reaper tech and indoctriation.

Unfortunatley I have to finally agree with Soronnar.  The only way to study the effects of Reaper augmentation tech and indoctrination is to put it on someone.

As well, the reward does outweigh the cost.  Survival, you need to survive at any means.  If Cerberus didn't do illegal experiments, we wouldn't have many human Biotics.  We wouldn't have had a Normandy.  Someone has to do the dark things in the blackest parts of life to continue your continued, fragile illusion of a society.

Even if one were to concede that a working knowledge of the process were necessary, and that it was vitally important to test on a human specimen; Cerberus essentially chose the douchiest way to go about it. Instead of recruiting the terminally ill and infirm with promises of paying for their relatives (for example) they essentially take the opportunity to enact some petty revenge against someone who tried to leave their group.

Wouldn't they have gotten workable data from the process with animal experimentation? Given the process works on species as diverse as protheans, turians and humans I'm guessing they could have studied the effects on chimps or varren.

[DJBare]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Not if I can find someone else (like murders or criminals) or there is time to find another way.

Not if? so with no other options available you would force your family and friends into those pods?

Modifié par DJBare, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:33 .

[incinerator950]

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Does anyone know if Akuze was a deliberate trap? I mean did Cerberus/the Alliance even know that Shepard's platoon was walking into a thresher maw nest? Tela Vasir sure seemed to thinks so, but she was spiteful and cruel.

If you listened to Tombs in ME 1, he pretty much confirmed that those Cerberus scientists deliberately set that trap for Shepard's unit. 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Someone With Mass wrote...
My argument is that they should have taken the Reaper out of the gravitational pull of the brown dwarf and look for a way to disable its systems before putting airlocks, research stations and whatnot in it.

Adn you assume it's easy to do it and that they can do it fast.
Also, putting in airlocks IS easy (as any ship has one) and the faster you start research the better.

That thing has been sitting in position for millions of years. There was no great danger. Besides, you dont' even know if Cerberus DID have plans to move it, but didn't have time to act upon it.

Things don't happen instantly in reality. How long did they work on that asteroid in Arrival? MONTHS?

Being dependant on a pretty unreliable and unpredictable machine is not a good thing.

37 million years of reliable service... I'd say it worked well.

[Lotion Soronarr]

DJBare wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Not if I can find someone else (like murders or criminals) or there is time to find another way.

Not if? so with no other options available you would force your family and friends into those pods?

I don't think I'd have to. Given whats at stake

[Omilophile]

incinerator950 wrote...

This is almost amusing to read.  No, you don't need a special forces background to do your job, get screwed over for doing your job, and then get sent home.  Serve the front lines, hell, serve the normal ratings that are outside supply in a box, and you'll see that.  

Since you're the one whose acting so tough, you're too important to go sign up for grunt work anyway.  Even Airman or Naval duty. 

I honestly have no idea where you're getting the "acting so tough" part. The only reason I brought up SpecFor was because of the way you brought on the question of whether or not I had served. It was as though you were trying to act tough yourself and act as though the only way to know anything at all was to "walk a mile in your shoes". I've dealt with that kind of person before, and I'm none too fond of them. Whether or not this was your intention, I don't know, but that was how I perceived it. 

[Someone With Mass]

Who says they have to do it fast?

Oh yeah, I forgot. Fast and sloppy is so much better than slow and steady in Cerberus' case.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Goneaviking wrote...
Even if one were to concede that a working knowledge of the process were necessary, and that it was vitally important to test on a human specimen; Cerberus essentially chose the douchiest way to go about it. Instead of recruiting the terminally ill and infirm with promises of paying for their relatives (for example) they essentially take the opportunity to enact some petty revenge against someone who tried to leave their group.

Wouldn't they have gotten workable data from the process with animal experimentation? Given the process works on species as diverse as protheans, turians and humans I'm guessing they could have studied the effects on chimps or varren.

Eh? Grayson was a good candidate. Healthy and strong-willed. That way indoctriation would take longer to take hol,d giving you more time to study it.

and I dont' think human and animal brains work the same...higher brain functions and all that..

[BobTheAndroid]

In my eyes Cerberus and TIM is not just incompetent but even hypocrites.
Since the E3 demo we know that his army will be made from indoctrinated humans. While TIM is saying that his actions are to advance human interests, he is murdering a lot of them. Why isean't he building his army from other races? I mean millions of humans will die by the "hands" of the Reapers why is he adding to that casualty list?
It is the same as the experiment on Akuze. Why use soldiers when you could use aliens or even human criminals? (Of cours it was forgotten in ME"2" along with the Ah yes, "Reapers" retcon to give them artificial padding.)

Modifié par BobTheAndroid, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:38 .

[incinerator950]

Goneaviking wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Omilophile wrote...

I don't think anyone here denies all the extremely helpful things Cerberus has done, but a few good deeds should not acquit them of the evils they have committed. Paul Grayson's forced augmentation with Reaper tech was going way too far (as were several other things). Justify it however you want, but you have to draw the line somewhere. "Results at any cost" is pointless and amoral. If we get rid of everything that makes us human, then we might as well just give up and die, because humanity is already extinct.

Another one that judges all of humantiy and wants it dead? We're not loosing our "humanity", nor do we become "worthless".

As "evil" as it is, Paul Graysons augmentation was the best way to study reaper tech and indoctriation.

Unfortunatley I have to finally agree with Soronnar.  The only way to study the effects of Reaper augmentation tech and indoctrination is to put it on someone.

As well, the reward does outweigh the cost.  Survival, you need to survive at any means.  If Cerberus didn't do illegal experiments, we wouldn't have many human Biotics.  We wouldn't have had a Normandy.  Someone has to do the dark things in the blackest parts of life to continue your continued, fragile illusion of a society.

Even if one were to concede that a working knowledge of the process were necessary, and that it was vitally important to test on a human specimen; Cerberus essentially chose the douchiest way to go about it. Instead of recruiting the terminally ill and infirm with promises of paying for their relatives (for example) they essentially take the opportunity to enact some petty revenge against someone who tried to leave their group.

Wouldn't they have gotten workable data from the process with animal experimentation? Given the process works on species as diverse as protheans, turians and humans I'm guessing they could have studied the effects on chimps or varren.

Don't know, I'm going off of what we know from ME 2.  I don't read the novels or comics, I read the wikia about it occasionally to get some idea of what Plot IP they wasted for it, but other than that I don't read them.

Besides Grayson and the Omega attacks, I don't know what they've done, but judging from ME 3's report and the Mars Mission, I can already speculate that they switched sides for their own reasons, and I will defend myself accordingly. 

I'm going to live with my decision, and if I get my way, I can shoot TIM in the kneecaps until he see's that my opinion is better than his.  If the script has its own idea, and I can retake the base for my forces, I'll do it.  Otherwise, game on.