1482 réponses à ce sujet

[ABCoLD]

Calibration Master wrote...

For the last time: Cerberus is not a terrorist organisation. They don't fit the profile of "terrorist" one bit. Cerberus is an Alliance black ops organisation, nothing more, nothing less.

Seriously, it annoys me greatly that people are eager to shout "TERRORISTS" while they don't even know what they're talking about. Even the BioWare writers themselves apperantly don't know what "terrorist" really means.

They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

[Welsh Inferno]

I don't see how a Council composed of all the races would be a bad thing. Human led will just lead to more conflict in the long run.

[crimzontearz]

I would have loved for The Sabbath/Locusts/dragon priests/T1000/Penny Wise/whatever not to be villains but guess what? They are


deal with it

[Kid Buu]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

I don't see how a Council composed of all the races would be a bad thing. Human led will just lead to more conflict in the long run.

exactly.

[LTiberious]

Kid Buu wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

One more thing.

Cerberus is not willing to enslave other races. It wants to make Humans dominant in the galaxy. Which is a great idea.

Great? How?

By any means possible

[MisterJB]

daqs wrote...
Yeah, but humanity isn't a member of the Citadel Council. The Alliance is. The Hierarchy, Union, and Republics are in no way beholden to humanity outside the Alliance. Same train of thought: asari have a Council seat, Aria T'Loak is an asari from the Terminus, and Aria just lost a war with Cerberus over Omega. Should the Alliance have to help out Aria against Cerberus? Of course not.

You have a point. However, there is a still a difference between a criminal warlord like Aria and the humans colonists that were kidnapped. The Council should have let humans defend themselves instead of appropriating our ships to complement the Citadel Fleet.

Also, what about the Geth attacks on Alliance colonies in ME1? Even then, they refused to do anything substancial.

[ABCoLD]

LTiberious wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

One more thing.

Cerberus is not willing to enslave other races. It wants to make Humans dominant in the galaxy. Which is a great idea.

Great? How?

By any means possible

He was asking how it was a Great Idea.  Expand, explain, defend your position.  Otherwise you be trolling.

[GodWood]

[quote]Kid Buu wrote...
Such a system is unrealistic and is quite frankly the opposite of what we have.

At least with human dominance the other races have more power and are not being crushed under the 3 council species.[/quote]You dont KNOW that. Humanity being in control could be even worse.[/quote]I don't know that but unless the people running the show are pants-on-head retarded it is likely.

It's even said in game.

[Volus Warlord]

ABCoLD wrote...

Calibration Master wrote...

For the last time: Cerberus is not a terrorist organisation. They don't fit the profile of "terrorist" one bit. Cerberus is an Alliance black ops organisation, nothing more, nothing less.

Seriously, it annoys me greatly that people are eager to shout "TERRORISTS" while they don't even know what they're talking about. Even the BioWare writers themselves apperantly don't know what "terrorist" really means.

They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

So does the Council... 

[Skullheart]

Kid Buu wrote...

Skullheart wrote...

Well, imo the council shouldn't exist. It's a system were only the council species are favored.

Hence why I said every species affected should get a say. Apparently though, people like it when only ONE gets a say.

They have a say, but the council has the power to ignore them.

There should be a senate formed by representatives of every species instead the council.

[MisterJB]

ABCoLD wrote...
They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

Did they kill Admiral Kahoku and showed his body on the extranet claiming that would be the fate of all betrayers of their own race? The pope they murdered, did his death not seem like an heart attack?
Terrorist groups use fear to achieve their goals. Cerberus does no such thing, they rely on secrecy.

[ABCoLD]

MisterJB wrote...

daqs wrote...
Yeah, but humanity isn't a member of the Citadel Council. The Alliance is. The Hierarchy, Union, and Republics are in no way beholden to humanity outside the Alliance. Same train of thought: asari have a Council seat, Aria T'Loak is an asari from the Terminus, and Aria just lost a war with Cerberus over Omega. Should the Alliance have to help out Aria against Cerberus? Of course not.

You have a point. However, there is a still a difference between a criminal warlord like Aria and the humans colonists that were kidnapped. The Council should have let humans defend themselves instead of appropriating our ships to complement the Citadel Fleet.

Also, what about the Geth attacks on Alliance colonies in ME1? Even then, they refused to do anything substancial.

The Council didn't forbid the humans from intervening, they simply wouldn't help them.  Also, the same thing in the first game, and it came with an admonishment because humanity had been told to not establish those colonies because they were in a provocative zone.  I imagine that falls under the "If stuff starts up, we ain't helping you" category.

[JGray]

Calibration Master wrote...

For the last time: Cerberus is not a terrorist organisation. They don't fit the profile of "terrorist" one bit. Cerberus is an Alliance black ops organisation, nothing more, nothing less.

Seriously, it annoys me greatly that people are eager to shout "TERRORISTS" while they don't even know what they're talking about. Even the BioWare writers themselves apperantly don't know what "terrorist" really means.

Black ops organizations are, on some level, sanctioned. Cerberus is not and is utterly independent. They are a terrorist organization on some level. Cerberus reminds me a lot of Hamas. One side does terrorist acts. Another does humanitarian missions - so long as those missions fall within a specific set of requirements.

[Kid Buu]

[quote]GodWood wrote...

[quote]Kid Buu wrote...
Such a system is unrealistic and is quite frankly the opposite of what we have.

At least with human dominance the other races have more power and are not being crushed under the 3 council species.[/quote]You dont KNOW that. Humanity being in control could be even worse.[/quote]I don't know that but unless the people running the show are pants-on-head retarded it is likely.

It's even said in game.[/quote]
It said that having human leadd council would better for everyone? Where?

[GodWood]

ABCoLD wrote...
They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

None of that is terrorism unless they explicitly state "We're Cerberus. We did that. Fear us because we did that and do what we say".

When Cerberus does those things they do it on the hush hush.

[Kid Buu]

MisterJB wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...
They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

Did they kill Admiral Kahoku and showed his body on the extranet claiming that would be the fate of all betrayers of their own race? The pope they murdered, did his death not seem like an heart attack?
Terrorist groups use fear to achieve their goals. Cerberus does no such thing, they rely on secrecy.

In yet everyone knows who they are and what they do. Maybe they are just amazingly incompetent.

[GodWood]

Kid Buu wrote...
It said that having human leadd council would better for everyone? Where?

It's said that for humans to successfully 'dominate' they must appeal to the 'lesser species' in Thane's loyalty mission.

An example of this is if you have a human dominated council the volus get a planet.

[Calibration Master]

ABCoLD wrote...

Calibration Master wrote...

For the last time: Cerberus is not a terrorist organisation. They don't fit the profile of "terrorist" one bit. Cerberus is an Alliance black ops organisation, nothing more, nothing less.

Seriously, it annoys me greatly that people are eager to shout "TERRORISTS" while they don't even know what they're talking about. Even the BioWare writers themselves apperantly don't know what "terrorist" really means.

They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

Terrorism is the public act of violence or public threats to spread terror, achieving your goals by inflicting fear on your opponents.

Cerberus works under the radar. They are a secretive and hidden organisation. They try to keep a low-profile. Most people don't even know they exist. How does that fit the profile of a terrorist organisation? It doesn't.

Cerberus is a black ops organisation. Everything about Cerberus fits that term. Look it up and see for yourself.

Modifié par Calibration Master, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:25 .

[Kid Buu]

GodWood wrote...

ABCoLD wrote...
They blow up civilian transports, kidnap free citizens, sell arms to criminals and assassinate people for political ends.   What definition of terrorist are you operating from?!

None of that is terrorism unless they explicitly state "We're Cerberus. We did that. Fear us because we did that and do what we say".

When Cerberus does those things they do it on the hush hush.

Lol. You dont have to be discrete and actually say ``fear us`` to in incur fear.

[Skullheart]

ABCoLD wrote...

The Council didn't forbid the humans from intervening, they simply wouldn't help them.  Also, the same thing in the first game, and it came with an admonishment because humanity had been told to not establish those colonies because they were in a provocative zone.  I imagine that falls under the "If stuff starts up, we ain't helping you" category.

And who gave that sector to the humans to colonise?

[GodWood]

Kid Buu wrote...
Maybe they are just amazingly incompetent.

Yes, Bioware's writers are amazingly incompetent.

[MisterJB]

ABCoLD wrote...
The Council didn't forbid the humans from intervening, they simply wouldn't help them.

While, at the same time, using our ships to defend the border of Citadel Space. So, we couldn't send all of our military might against the Collectors. 

Also, the same thing in the first game, and it came with an admonishment because humanity had been told to not establish those colonies because they were in a provocative zone.  I imagine that falls under the "If stuff starts up, we ain't helping you" category.

Lies. The Council wanted humans to settle the Traverse, they wanted us to drive the batarians out (due to them being hostile to other council races despite their embassy) and strengthen the borders of Council space. But when we ran into trouble, they refused to help.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:27 .

[Kid Buu]

GodWood wrote...

Kid Buu wrote...
Maybe they are just amazingly incompetent.

Yes, Bioware's writers are amazingly incompetent.

I would argue but ya, after the human reaper and the whole plot of ME2, I agree. ME2 was an utter joke in regards to the plot. And every comic, novel ect. since ME1 completely revolves around cerberus. And every time its just them dealign with an experiment gone wrong because apparently Bioware cant think of anything else.

Modifié par Kid Buu, 23 janvier 2012 - 02:28 .