185 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk78]

So I was talking the other day to a friend about this and I began to realise that many people criticise Liara for not being critical of Shepard and love the fact that the VS is so critical of him, never mind the fact that Liara almost went through hell to save you, even giving your corpse to Cerberus in the vague hope something might happen. That is undying love, sure in real life relationships are all about naggging and putting your partner down so I suppose that is the appeal of the VS romance over Liara's but I would rather indulge the fantasy of what does not exist in real life to be honest.

Your take?

[BatmanPWNS]

Liara scares me sometime especially after that stare she gave me when I didn't let her come on the Normandy. So I decided my main Shep was never going to be with Liara.

[Ryzaki]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Liara scares me sometime especially after that stare she gave me when I didn't let her come on the Normandy. So I decided my main Shep was never going to be with Liara.

lmao. Did your Shep do that quick look away when she looked back? When mine did I burst out laughing. It was perfectly awkward and fit perfectly how my Shep finds her to be a bit of a creeper.

[Vilio1]

Stardusk78 wrote...

That is undying love, sure in real life relationships are all about naggging and putting your partner down so I suppose that is the appeal of the VS romance over Liara's but I would rather indulge the fantasy of what does not exist in real life to be honest.

Liara's romance arc has a rocky part, too (the Illium cameo). But that was resolved in Lair of the Shadow Broker.

I think Liara's ME1 romance isn't great, but LOTSB Liara is leagues ahead of the VS romances. I have nothing bad to say about this one. For the first time both Shepard and another character in game were really "alive"!

[Skullheart]

I never liked how her romance started in ME1. VS was far better than hers.

And in ME2, she stopped being Liara. The character assassination that she went through is one of the thing that I dislike from her character.

[syllogi]

Skullheart wrote...

I never liked how her romance started in ME1. VS was far better than hers.

And in ME2, she stopped being Liara. The character assassination that she went through is one of the thing that I dislike from her character.

I will admit, when I first played, I didn't care for Liara as a romance option in ME1, mostly because of the swooning and how fast it seemed to go from pleasantries to declarations of love.  She was very pretty, and it was nice that she was available for female Shepards, but not my type.

I actually liked the character development in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  It made me think about how her mother's death may have changed her, how much Liara covets knowledge, and how important Shepard was to her, even when not romanced.  I understand why some folks may not like the direction she went in, but to me it made sense and added layers of complexity to her characterization.

And let it be noted that Stardusk has created yet another thread about the VS; for somebody who doesn't like the characters, he looooooves talking about them...

[Collider]

I like that the VS has boundaries. There are things you can do or say that end the romance or stop the romance from happening. Liara doesn't have anything like that.

[Vilio1]

Well, she dumps emo Shepard in the cabin scene

[PMC65]

I enjoy all three characters and their romances because they are different.

Kaidan is a shy guy / Ashley a tough gal - both are Alliance and that put them at odds with Shepard. I may be one of the few that liked Horizon's punch because it was act 2 of the story ... like Elizabeth Bennett telling Darcy to shove off in Pride and Prejudice. It will make the payoff that much sweeter, sweeter than even Liara's story to me.

Liara is an asari - this causes different problems and while LotSB helped take away the sting of ME2 we still had that WTF???? feeling prior. Wait, I come back and all you want is me to hack crap? Really? And this after I had my friend (VS) tell me that (s)he didn't trust me? I hate this dying and coming back to life!

They are different but I've enjoyed all three ... looking forward to ME3!

[Eragondragonrider]

I thought Liara romance was cutie in ME1 it was that kind of first love school girl crush thing(a lot like Tali in ME2), and was a more mature relationship in ME2. The thing with Liara vs VS love was two different sides of the same coin. With the VS you have the love and glad your back from the dead but I feel really betrayed because your with the enemy, and this is a lot for me to process at once thing. With Liara it was I love you so much I did the ultimate act of betrayal because I gave you to the enemy, but they where to only ones that could bring you back, will you forgive me kind of thing. I love both the ME1 loves and can't wait to see who they work out in ME3.

[CroGamer002]

wut?

[Lady Niltiak]

Plot. Armor.
If it wasn't for that, I would have thrown her creepy blue butt out an airlock in ME1. Kaidan was an awesome biotic who could lift up the battlefield for "target practice," or overload shields and robots for quick battles, and spoke his mind. Ashley was a powerhouse of slaughter, killing anything that raised a weapon against her or her teammates, was tough and sensitive, and also spoke her mind. Liara cowered on her first battle, played innocent, and was "in love" with Shepard faster than a preteen with a crush. Kinda creepy imo.

During begining of ME2 and the 2 years Shepard was in a coma: Kaidan/Ashley followed Shepard's orders, Watched Shepard die, moved on, got promoted, (Kaidan surpasses you in rank in two years, Ashley will be the same rank as Shepard in ME3) and continue the fight the only way they know how. Eventually getting some classified mission that places Kaidan/Ashley on Horizon.
Liara freaks out, tracks down Shepard's body, goes to Omega, gets double crossed, gives Shepard's body to a terrorist organization, and vows revenge on the Shadow Broker, getting no further until Shepard comes to help her once again.

Also Kaidan/Ashley are telling the truth as s/he sees it, and both have the balls to do it to Shepard's face right away. Liara doesn't tell Shepard her part in the resurrection until you do something for her. Kaidan/Ashley tell you right away; they loved you two years ago, but they won't betray the Alliance for you. Kaidan/Ashley have the guts to say NO to the legendary Commander Shepard. That makes my FemShep happier than Liara forcing her to join up with terrorists.

[BlueMagitek]

Stardusk78 wrote...

So I was talking the other day to a friend about this and I began to realise that many people criticise Liara for not being critical of Shepard and love the fact that the VS is so critical of him, never mind the fact that Liara almost went through hell to save you, even giving your corpse to Cerberus in the vague hope something might happen. That is undying love, sure in real life relationships are all about naggging and putting your partner down so I suppose that is the appeal of the VS romance over Liara's but I would rather indulge the fantasy of what does not exist in real life to be honest.

Your take?

Well, what Liara does is actually really disturbing.  Sure, she doesn't want her friend/lover/abusive "friend" to have his/her body sent to the Collectors, fair enough.  But giving the body to a Black Ops organization that Shepard is almost certainly against (at that point)?  This isn't a fantasy realm where bringing the dead back to life is common, this is on the wildly off chance of it happening.  And she does this even if you're against her in ME 1.  It's a rather terrifying obsession, not undying love (and this could have been solved by giving non romanced Liara's a different line about the Cipher being too important / Shepard is too important against the Reapers to just die).  But as it stands, her reason is completely emotional, and in my opinion, really rather creepy (even for the romanced ones). 

Vilio1 wrote...

Well, she dumps emo Shepard in the cabin scene [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

You know, I've heard this, but never actually seen it.  Do you happen to have a video?

[Stardusk78]

Lady Niltiak wrote...

Plot. Armor.
If it wasn't for that, I would have thrown her creepy blue butt out an airlock in ME1. Kaidan was an awesome biotic who could lift up the battlefield for "target practice," or overload shields and robots for quick battles, and spoke his mind. Ashley was a powerhouse of slaughter, killing anything that raised a weapon against her or her teammates, was tough and sensitive, and also spoke her mind. Liara cowered on her first battle, played innocent, and was "in love" with Shepard faster than a preteen with a crush. Kinda creepy imo.

During begining of ME2 and the 2 years Shepard was in a coma: Kaidan/Ashley followed Shepard's orders, Watched Shepard die, moved on, got promoted, (Kaidan surpasses you in rank in two years, Ashley will be the same rank as Shepard in ME3) and continue the fight the only way they know how. Eventually getting some classified mission that places Kaidan/Ashley on Horizon.
Liara freaks out, tracks down Shepard's body, goes to Omega, gets double crossed, gives Shepard's body to a terrorist organization, and vows revenge on the Shadow Broker, getting no further until Shepard comes to help her once again.

Also Kaidan/Ashley are telling the truth as s/he sees it, and both have the balls to do it to Shepard's face right away. Liara doesn't tell Shepard her part in the resurrection until you do something for her. Kaidan/Ashley tell you right away; they loved you two years ago, but they won't betray the Alliance for you. Kaidan/Ashley have the guts to say NO to the legendary Commander Shepard. That makes my FemShep happier than Liara forcing her to join up with terrorists.

Liara's love is stronger than the VS's love. That is undying love, going after Shepard no matter what. VS is just like real life, you break up, move on, date someone else. We get enough of that in real life, so an alternative in ME is far better.

[Darth Asriel]

For me it came down to the following:

Ashley- was a horrible racist in ME. In my initial playthough it was a turnoff. Now I have gone back and created a Shepard that romances her, and she does grow a lot. But in that initial one it bugged me. Her reaction in ME2 was kind of expected. I was more upset that BW didn't have my Shep go after her to explain things. I look forwRd to their reunion in ME3.

Liara- had a school girl crush. It was cute. And after Noveria I think she began to lean on Shepard more. Her crush developed into something more, so that be ME2 she is willing to do anything, pervert all natural laws to have you back. That's not psycho or creeper that's love. She essentially sold her soul for Shepard. That's not something to take lightly.

Kaidan- annoys the hell out of me. I can't even bring myself to romance him with any of my femsheps.

[SilvinC]

Lady Niltiak wrote...

Plot. Armor.
If it wasn't for that, I would have thrown her creepy blue butt out an airlock in ME1. Kaidan was an awesome biotic who could lift up the battlefield for "target practice," or overload shields and robots for quick battles, and spoke his mind. Ashley was a powerhouse of slaughter, killing anything that raised a weapon against her or her teammates, was tough and sensitive, and also spoke her mind. Liara cowered on her first battle, played innocent, and was "in love" with Shepard faster than a preteen with a crush. Kinda creepy imo.

During begining of ME2 and the 2 years Shepard was in a coma: Kaidan/Ashley followed Shepard's orders, Watched Shepard die, moved on, got promoted, (Kaidan surpasses you in rank in two years, Ashley will be the same rank as Shepard in ME3) and continue the fight the only way they know how. Eventually getting some classified mission that places Kaidan/Ashley on Horizon.
Liara freaks out, tracks down Shepard's body, goes to Omega, gets double crossed, gives Shepard's body to a terrorist organization, and vows revenge on the Shadow Broker, getting no further until Shepard comes to help her once again.

Also Kaidan/Ashley are telling the truth as s/he sees it, and both have the balls to do it to Shepard's face right away. Liara doesn't tell Shepard her part in the resurrection until you do something for her. Kaidan/Ashley tell you right away; they loved you two years ago, but they won't betray the Alliance for you. Kaidan/Ashley have the guts to say NO to the legendary Commander Shepard. That makes my FemShep happier than Liara forcing her to join up with terrorists.

That's certainly the stupidest thing I've read on BSN for at least a week or two.

[BlueMagitek]

SilvinTT56 wrote...

Lady Niltiak wrote...

Plot. Armor.
If it wasn't for that, I would have thrown her creepy blue butt out an airlock in ME1. Kaidan was an awesome biotic who could lift up the battlefield for "target practice," or overload shields and robots for quick battles, and spoke his mind. Ashley was a powerhouse of slaughter, killing anything that raised a weapon against her or her teammates, was tough and sensitive, and also spoke her mind. Liara cowered on her first battle, played innocent, and was "in love" with Shepard faster than a preteen with a crush. Kinda creepy imo.

During begining of ME2 and the 2 years Shepard was in a coma: Kaidan/Ashley followed Shepard's orders, Watched Shepard die, moved on, got promoted, (Kaidan surpasses you in rank in two years, Ashley will be the same rank as Shepard in ME3) and continue the fight the only way they know how. Eventually getting some classified mission that places Kaidan/Ashley on Horizon.
Liara freaks out, tracks down Shepard's body, goes to Omega, gets double crossed, gives Shepard's body to a terrorist organization, and vows revenge on the Shadow Broker, getting no further until Shepard comes to help her once again.

Also Kaidan/Ashley are telling the truth as s/he sees it, and both have the balls to do it to Shepard's face right away. Liara doesn't tell Shepard her part in the resurrection until you do something for her. Kaidan/Ashley tell you right away; they loved you two years ago, but they won't betray the Alliance for you. Kaidan/Ashley have the guts to say NO to the legendary Commander Shepard. That makes my FemShep happier than Liara forcing her to join up with terrorists.

That's certainly the stupidest thing I've read on BSN for at least a week or two.

You're right; Cerberus can't really be classified as a terrorist group until ME3; up until that point, it's best defined as a rogue black ops group.

Everything else is spot on though.

[Chaos715]

The biggest and most frustrating difference between the VS romance and Liara romance is that Liara's has been given some resolve. Us VS fans have been given nothing, we're still hoping and waiting for ours. We could talk to Liara, help her out during ME2, she got LOTSB she was still somewhat part of the story.

Kaidan and Ashley are just left hanging, we have no idea where they are, what they are up to and there's nothing we can do about it, besides complain about them in LOTSB to Liara.

[PMC65]

BlueMagitek wrote...

SilvinTT56 wrote...

Lady Niltiak wrote...

Plot. Armor.
If it wasn't for that, I would have thrown her creepy blue butt out an airlock in ME1. Kaidan was an awesome biotic who could lift up the battlefield for "target practice," or overload shields and robots for quick battles, and spoke his mind. Ashley was a powerhouse of slaughter, killing anything that raised a weapon against her or her teammates, was tough and sensitive, and also spoke her mind. Liara cowered on her first battle, played innocent, and was "in love" with Shepard faster than a preteen with a crush. Kinda creepy imo.

During begining of ME2 and the 2 years Shepard was in a coma: Kaidan/Ashley followed Shepard's orders, Watched Shepard die, moved on, got promoted, (Kaidan surpasses you in rank in two years, Ashley will be the same rank as Shepard in ME3) and continue the fight the only way they know how. Eventually getting some classified mission that places Kaidan/Ashley on Horizon.
Liara freaks out, tracks down Shepard's body, goes to Omega, gets double crossed, gives Shepard's body to a terrorist organization, and vows revenge on the Shadow Broker, getting no further until Shepard comes to help her once again.

Also Kaidan/Ashley are telling the truth as s/he sees it, and both have the balls to do it to Shepard's face right away. Liara doesn't tell Shepard her part in the resurrection until you do something for her. Kaidan/Ashley tell you right away; they loved you two years ago, but they won't betray the Alliance for you. Kaidan/Ashley have the guts to say NO to the legendary Commander Shepard. That makes my FemShep happier than Liara forcing her to join up with terrorists.

That's certainly the stupidest thing I've read on BSN for at least a week or two.

You're right; Cerberus can't really be classified as a terrorist group until ME3; up until that point, it's best defined as a rogue black ops group.

Everything else is spot on though.

Well, actually no ... Liara will tell you what she did on Illium even if you do squat for her. She also does not make you join Cerberus. Shepard once awakened could have taken his toys except BIOWARE not Liara kept you there.

Also, the airlock choice in ME1 would have meant no ME2 for those Shepards after you were spaced. No bueno.

[SilvinC]

BlueMagitek wrote...

You're right; Cerberus can't really be classified as a terrorist group until ME3; up until that point, it's best defined as a rogue black ops group.

Everything else is spot on though.

Ok, one example: Liara forced Shepard to work with cerberus...how did she do that?

[Ryzaki]

Yeah Liara didn't force Shepard to join Cerberus.

My Shep just wants to tell her to screw herself for handing him over to Cerberus in the first place. But noooo he's forced to be all nice and understanding. Bleh.

[BlueMagitek]

PMC65 wrote...

Well, actually no ... Liara will tell you what she did on Illium even if you do squat for her. She also does not make you join Cerberus. Shepard once awakened could have taken his toys except BIOWARE not Liara kept you there.

Also, the airlock choice in ME1 would have meant no ME2 for those Shepards after you were spaced. No bueno.

She sent Shepard's body to Cerberus on the off chance that they'd ressurect him.  Cerberus could have installed a control chip and Liara wouldn't have been able to do anything.  As for Shepard working with Cerberus; he does so because they're the only ones doing *anything* to stop the Collectors, and I highly doubt he could take control of the ship from all Cerberus personnel aboard until after the SM.

And I'm fairly certain that you do need to do at least the hacking mission before Liara says any more.

[Barquiel]

Shepard could just order c-sec to arrest every cerberus member aboard the Normandy when the ship arrives on the Citadel for the first time in the game. Nobody forced Shep to work for cerberus.

[BlueMagitek]

Barquiel wrote...

Shepard could just order c-sec to arrest every cerberus member aboard the Normandy when the ship arrives on the Citadel for the first time in the game. Nobody forced Shep to work for cerberus.

And in the process betray his squadmembers?  Oh my, I had no idea you would imagine Shepard as such a ruthless character.