185 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

My main Shep would've preferred she burned his corpse and took up the fight against the Reapers.

She has the Cipher, she knows the Reapers are coming. She could continue where Shep left off.

That to him would've been the best thing she could've done.

Not given him to Cerberus (without any restrictions so they could've cloned his ass a dozen times over making him into some super soldier or put a mind control chip in his head) on the off chance that Cerberus was gonna bring him back to life.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:16 .

[BlueMagitek]

^ Actually, Liara doesn't have the Cipher. Only Shep, Shiala & Saren do (two of whom are dead, Shiala may or may not be dead). She doesn't understand Vigil on Ilos.

But she doesn't make any point about the Cipher being important, so... yeah.

[FryPanNN]

Continuing my post from the last page:

To start, fighting with Feron to rescue Shepard's body in redemption in which she used her biotics to throw everyone on the room, letting Tazzik capture Feron and he wasn't even armed at that point, just Feron holding him, a Collector at her side and she was with a gun, and she just left. Come on, really?

But there was a lot of plot holes on ME1 too, so I stoped caring. Everything happens just for the sake of the plot, it doesn't really have any reason to make sense, you know, like in ME1, on the citadel, the council telling that Saren plans to attack the Citadel, and never before in the game this is mentioned of hinted.

Nobody believes Shepard about Saren, but then a omni tool recording with Saren's voice proves he's a traitor, everyone believes, but Shepard can't record a single thing about reapers or protheans in his journeys.

Modifié par FryPanNN, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:22 .

[CptData]

Stardusk78 wrote...

Liara's love is stronger than the VS's love. That is undying love, going after Shepard no matter what. VS is just like real life, you break up, move on, date someone else. We get enough of that in real life, so an alternative in ME is far better.

Says who?
Love comes in different flavors. Liara doesn't have the "undyding" love - that's something all three characters have. Nope. Liara's love is a love out of devotion - that's a huge difference, however, people have a tendency to mix it up.

In short: Liara's love is neither better nor worse than the love of Kaidan or Ashley. It's just an entirely different kind of love. And you definitely should try those other LIs out too. 

[AgitatedLemon]

CptData wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Liara's love is stronger than the VS's love. That is undying love, going after Shepard no matter what. VS is just like real life, you break up, move on, date someone else. We get enough of that in real life, so an alternative in ME is far better.

Says who?
Love comes in different flavors. Liara doesn't have the "undyding" love - that's something all three characters have. Nope. Liara's love is a love out of devotion - that's a huge difference, however, people have a tendency to mix it up.

In short: Liara's love is neither better nor worse than the love of Kaidan or Ashley. It's just an entirely different kind of love. And you definitely should try those other LIs out too. 

Even mint chocolate chip?

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...

^ Actually, Liara doesn't have the Cipher. Only Shep, Shiala & Saren do (two of whom are dead, Shiala may or may not be dead). She doesn't understand Vigil on Ilos.

But she doesn't make any point about the Cipher being important, so... yeah.

I'm pretty sure Liara does have the Cipher. She was mucking around in Shep's head was she not? It's what she used to get them to Ilos. Shep can not reach Ilos until he has the Cipher and melded with Liara. 

As for not understanding the AI (Vigil speaks in a language all of them can understand) I took that as the constant reusing of dialogue (like Liara suddenly turning renegade even though it made no sense). Even Shepard doesn't fully understand the AI thingy. He says "I recognize some of the words." Liara could've gotten the Cipher much later than Shep and had a harder time deciphering it.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:27 .

[FryPanNN]

I could be rude to Liara in ME1, but not anymore, and it seems in ME3 Shepard will have a lot of confrontations with the VS about Cerberus. Really? I have a bad argument with them on Horizon and they hate me. But Liara tells me she gave my body to Cerberus and Shepard is just: "Any friend of yours is a friend of mine! Let's get the shadow broker!" "Good to know, let's rescue your old friend!"

I won't say the game force us to be FRIENDS with her, since we can still turn her down at the end of the mission, but it is forcing Shepard the be FRIENDLY with her all the time.

You know, three paragon interrupts in LOTSB, one after the other, not a single renegade.

Modifié par FryPanNN, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:28 .

[Collider]

Conditional love > unconditional love , imo.
What I'd really like to see is Liara have some boundaries in her romance in ME3. Though I understand that some of her fans like the unerring devotion she has to Shepard no matter what.

[CptData]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

CptData wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Liara's love is stronger than the VS's love. That is undying love, going after Shepard no matter what. VS is just like real life, you break up, move on, date someone else. We get enough of that in real life, so an alternative in ME is far better.

Says who?
Love comes in different flavors. Liara doesn't have the "undyding" love - that's something all three characters have. Nope. Liara's love is a love out of devotion - that's a huge difference, however, people have a tendency to mix it up.

In short: Liara's love is neither better nor worse than the love of Kaidan or Ashley. It's just an entirely different kind of love. And you definitely should try those other LIs out too. 

Even mint chocolate chip?

I'm sure you got what I was saying, buddy

I just dislike the idea "Liara's love is the only undying and super-fluffy-awesome-mega-ultra-boaaahh-can't-describe-love".
Guys, seriously ... Liara's not that special. And I'm no fan of "devoted" love. Currently I'm trying a fem!Shep playthrough and have Liara as LI ... either I'm biased (a lot), or it's simply not the kind of love I'm looking forward for. Not saying it's bad or something - it's a matter of taste. I like love between equals far, far more, since such love is -really- challenging.

[Ryzaki]

I'd like Liara's love a lot more if it didn't seem to still be there if Shep treated her like crap.

That just makes it creepy.

As for the VS love. They can keep it. It's not my thing.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm pretty sure Liara does have the Cipher. She was mucking around in Shep's head was she not?

As for not understanding the AI (Vigil speaks in a language all of them can understand) I took that as the constant reusing of dialogue (like Liara suddenly turning renegade even though it made no sense).

I think Liara was just "sorting" everything out, not taking anything.  Perhaps it was at the other Prothean VI, not Vigil.  Eh, been too long, can't remember.

You're right about Vigil.

[FryPanNN]

I certainly will be very disappointed to be forced friends with Liara and forced enemies with the VS in ME3. In better words, to have an easy relationship with one and hard on the other.

[Collider]

FryPanNN wrote...
I certainly will be very disappointed to be forced friends with Liara and forced enemies with the VS in ME3. In better words, to have an easy relationship with one and hard on the other.

This seems to pretty much be what ME3 is, I'm afraid.

[Barquiel]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd like Liara's love a lot more if it didn't seem to still be there if Shep treated her like crap.

That just makes it creepy.

 

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

[Ryzaki]

FryPanNN wrote...

I certainly will be very disappointed to be forced friends with Liara and forced enemies with the VS in ME3. In better words, to have an easy relationship with one and hard on the other.

You're not forced to be enemies OR friends with the VS. You can be friends, enemies or just professionals.

Thank ra for that. Forced VS friends would've been more headdesk worthy than Liara hug to me.

BlueMagitek wrote...

I think Liara was just "sorting" everything out, not taking anything.  Perhaps it was at the other Prothean VI, not Vigil.  Eh, been too long, can't remember.

You're right about Vigil.

Plus they could always retcon it.

Barquiel wrote...

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

They do. *sighs*

Well Garrus doesn't. You can't romance him if you didn't recruit him and if you recruit him you really can't be cruel to him.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:33 .

[BlueMagitek]

Barquiel wrote...

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

Especially Garrus and Liara.

Garrus would have been amazing if he had different conversations if you left him behind the first game.

[CptData]

Barquiel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd like Liara's love a lot more if it didn't seem to still be there if Shep treated her like crap.

That just makes it creepy.

 

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

Dunno. If you pick an early renegade option against Ashley (Stay in line), she won't become a LI. And she won't go after Shepard ...

[Barquiel]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

Especially Garrus and Liara.

Garrus would have been amazing if he had different conversations if you left him behind the first game.

I thought Tali was worse (her pilgrimage stuff, Veetor, the geth discussions....but she has feelings for Shepard)

[Badpie]

I mean or it could just be that there are different kinds of relationships all beautiful in their own way, OP.

I think to simplify it all like "Liara's love is unconditional" and "The VS nags" is kind of silly.

All relationships have good and bad. That's the way it is. That's the way it would be with Liara and the way it would be with the VS. They are written differently because they're different characters. I'm not sure it's really a matter of choosing one over the other because the other is bad, but more of just deciding which you're more drawn to for whatever reason. The rest is details.

In any normal adult committed relationship there will be moments of unconditional love. There will also be moments you want to want to scream at the other person because one of you has hurt the other or you've disagreed. To lump either into a category isn't very accurate. You're getting both with both.

[PMC65]

CptData wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Liara's love is stronger than the VS's love. That is undying love, going after Shepard no matter what. VS is just like real life, you break up, move on, date someone else. We get enough of that in real life, so an alternative in ME is far better.

Says who?
Love comes in different flavors. Liara doesn't have the "undyding" love - that's something all three characters have. Nope. Liara's love is a love out of devotion - that's a huge difference, however, people have a tendency to mix it up.

In short: Liara's love is neither better nor worse than the love of Kaidan or Ashley. It's just an entirely different kind of love. And you definitely should try those other LIs out too. 

Yep, some people go the "my LI is better, has a deeper feeling, is more equal to, blah blah than all the others."

All of the romances have pros & cons ... all characters have pros & cons. So those debates are useless to me and add no value to my gameplays.

Discussing the pros & cons of relationships and how one may RP that romance is interesting to me. I read a person explain his RP of why that Shepard hated Liara for bringing him back once and it had me understand his hatred and anger. It wasn't a "I hate Liara Waaaaa" response but a well-thought out RP of that Shepard and how events impacted him.

My nephew explained to me why his Shepard hated Ashley and it fit his RP. He actually likes her but he was doing what the game encourages ... he was creating a Shepard different from him.

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

Especially Garrus and Liara.

Garrus would have been amazing if he had different conversations if you left him behind the first game.

...you can't romance Garrus if you left him behind in the first game.

[FryPanNN]

Ryzaki wrote...

FryPanNN wrote...

I certainly will be very disappointed to be forced friends with Liara and forced enemies with the VS in ME3. In better words, to have an easy relationship with one and hard on the other.

You're not forced to be enemies OR friends with the VS. You can be friends, enemies or just professionals.

Thank ra for that. Forced VS friends would've been more headdesk worthy than Liara hug to me.

I sure hope in ME3 this is the case. But I'm still skeptical about the Liara relationship since LOTSB. The devs said they were taking away dialogue choices and a lot of people approved. But the auto dialogue is not making Shepard neutral.

[Badpie]

Ryzaki wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

Especially Garrus and Liara.

Garrus would have been amazing if he had different conversations if you left him behind the first game.

...you can't romance Garrus if you left him behind in the first game.

Ha!  Doesn't he just show up anyway on Omega and treat you like an old buddy though?  So yes, you can actually romance him because no matter what, the dude is on your ship in ME2.  

[Barquiel]

CptData wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I'd like Liara's love a lot more if it didn't seem to still be there if Shep treated her like crap.

That just makes it creepy.

 

I think all ME1 characters have this problem.

Dunno. If you pick an early renegade option against Ashley (Stay in line), she won't become a LI. And she won't go after Shepard ...

I was referring to the ME2 characters/romances. You can end all ME1 romanes during the second conversation with each character (let's be friends, stay in line...I don't remember Kaiden's line)

[Ryzaki]

Badpie wrote...
Ha!  Doesn't he just show up anyway on Omega and treat you like an old buddy though?  So yes, you can actually romance him because no matter what, the dude is on your ship in ME2.  

He shows up on Omega but he has different recruitment dialogue (pre Normandy...for some reason he defaults to recruited in ME1 dialogue on the Normandy) and no you can't romance him if you didn't recruit him in ME1. He's on the ship yeah but he's not an LI.

Default recruits Garrus in ME1 though. So he's an LI to everyone but importers from ME1 who didn't recruit him in ME1.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:39 .