1294 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuoaman]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Um, do you even realize that children with autisum can grow up to be normal sussessful people.

Absolutely they can.  As a writer, though, you would normally be expected to tell the story of how they did that.  Skipping forward a few years and saying "in the meantime, Gillian got better" is, to say it mildly, a dreadful cop out.

This, when we last saw her Gillian was, quite frankly, an absolute mess. Just skipping over all of it is just ridiculous.

..One day Gillian woke up and felt a change in her body, It might be because of the accelerated aging but she noticed that her bosom was larger and hair began to appear in new places, She realized that she was becoming an adult and just decided to be normal, After all if she was normal and wore make-up like all the other girls she would find a boy and marry him and then her life would be complete..

The reason why all women do anything in fiction.

[CaptainZaysh]

dreman9999 wrote...

You think they should take the time to reflect on that?
BS.
She had a dedicated personal tutour who was more of a father for 4(I mean 5 based on theis crasy books timeline.)
years. She turned out well, he did a great job. End story arc about that.

Hm, that's good thinking.  We could probably improve a lot of fiction this way.  Think of how awesome The Empire Strikes Back would have been if Luke had started as a Jedi!

Think of how awesome The Matrix would have been if they skipped all that boring stuff where Neo became The One.  He could have killed Agents like all the way through the movie instead of just at the end.

[didymos1120]

Oh, and that stuff about quarian crew younger than 18 not being allowed to participate in defense? Yeah...no:

"We served together on the gunship Yaska during a bad batarian raid. We were kids, serving pre-Pilgrimage as trainees."

and:

"Our ship was under orders to hold position. But Rael looked at me and said, 'We're underage. They can't charge us for breaking formation.'"

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 janvier 2012 - 02:40 .

[dreman9999]

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

I wouldn't even know Gillian was autistic if I didn't know beforehand. Dietz has this horrid style of using brief sentences with few details to tell events more than describe them.

Um, do you even realize that children with autisum can grow up to be normal sussessful people.

http://www.parentdis...ks-with-autism/

Hell, Albert Einstein was even autistic.

I'm not saying I need it to be blindingly obvious in her behavior, though I wouldn't expect it to vanish completely considering how she acted in Ascension.  But in Ascension we were given glimpses into Gillian's mind and there is not the lightest similarity in the girl that appeared in Ascension to the girl that appeared in this excert in either behavior or what I could glean of her thoughts from her reactions and what Dietz outright told us she was thinking.

Ask yourself this question....When you were 17, were you anything like the person you were when you were13?
I'm sure I wasn't.

I've changed, but I;m not a completly different person.  Moreover, there are reasons behind that change,  These are the sort of things Dietz should mention.

We don't change to a diffrent person but during our teens we change drasticly, this includes alot of our personality.
Getting bent out of shape over this is point less because if she did getbetter,  alot of parts of her personality would change anyway. I don't need a guide to that because I understand this happen with people at that age. It's once were fully grown we stay stagnet and even then our personality many change over time any way.

[AVPen]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

"Well, what about Shepard?" It was Ambassador Udina who was talking. Udina was a human diplomat stationed at The Citadel, that vast space station that served as the centre of galactic civilisation. It had been discovered by the asari, a monogendered race of blue aliens, female in appearance, nearly 2,700 years ago. "He's a spacer; lived aboard starships most of his life."

It was true. Spacers did live aboard starships for most of their lives. Some people thought them space-born vagabonds, but modern military fleets couldn't function without them, and neither could the colonisation drives.

"Military service runs in the family," observed another man. And he would know - he had been a good friend of Shepard's, a mentor of sorts, for many years. His name was David Anderson and he was one of the most decorated war heroes in the Systems Alliance. The Alliance was the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in deep space. "Both his parents were in the Navy."

Please tell me that those paragraphs are not from the book.... 


Now my canon Shep may be a Spacer and all, but damnnn.... that is some wretching, utterly amaturish writing as I've ever seen it.

[Anacronian Stryx]

didymos1120 wrote...

Oh, and that stuff about quarians younger than 18 not being allowed to participate in defense? Yeah...no:

"We served together on the gunship Yaska during a bad batarian raid. We were kids, serving pre-Pilgrimage as trainees."

Tali's father and Han'Gerrel vas Neema served on the gunship Yaksha as teenagers.

Meh ninja'd by didy himself.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 24 janvier 2012 - 02:40 .

[CaptainZaysh]

dreman9999 wrote...

We don't change to a diffrent person but during our teens we change drasticly, this includes alot of our personality.
Getting bent out of shape over this is point less because if she did getbetter,  alot of parts of her personality would change anyway. I don't need a guide to that because I understand this happen with people at that age. It's once were fully grown we stay stagnet and even then our personality many change over time any way.

Dude, you're completely missing the point.  A profoundly autistic person's journey to recovery is the battle of their life.  Just like Luke's journey to becoming a Jedi, and Neo's journey to becoming The One.  We're not saying it's not realistic, we're saying Dietz is a hack for skipping over it instead of writing about it.

[CaptainZaysh]

AVPen wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

"Well, what about Shepard?" It was Ambassador Udina who was talking. Udina was a human diplomat stationed at The Citadel, that vast space station that served as the centre of galactic civilisation. It had been discovered by the asari, a monogendered race of blue aliens, female in appearance, nearly 2,700 years ago. "He's a spacer; lived aboard starships most of his life."

It was true. Spacers did live aboard starships for most of their lives. Some people thought them space-born vagabonds, but modern military fleets couldn't function without them, and neither could the colonisation drives.

"Military service runs in the family," observed another man. And he would know - he had been a good friend of Shepard's, a mentor of sorts, for many years. His name was David Anderson and he was one of the most decorated war heroes in the Systems Alliance. The Alliance was the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in deep space. "Both his parents were in the Navy."

Please tell me that those paragraphs are not from the book.... 


Now my canon Shep may be a Spacer and all, but damnnn.... that is some wretching, utterly amaturish writing as I've ever seen it.

No no, I was parodying Dietz's writing style as if he were writing the novelisation for Mass 1.  It's only slightly worse than the real thing, though.

[dreman9999]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You think they should take the time to reflect on that?
BS.
She had a dedicated personal tutour who was more of a father for 4(I mean 5 based on theis crasy books timeline.)
years. She turned out well, he did a great job. End story arc about that.

Hm, that's good thinking.  We could probably improve a lot of fiction this way.  Think of how awesome The Empire Strikes Back would have been if Luke had started as a Jedi!

Think of how awesome The Matrix would have been if they skipped all that boring stuff where Neo became The One.  He could have killed Agents like all the way through the movie instead of just at the end.

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

[Yuoaman]

AVPen wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

"Well, what about Shepard?" It was Ambassador Udina who was talking. Udina was a human diplomat stationed at The Citadel, that vast space station that served as the centre of galactic civilisation. It had been discovered by the asari, a monogendered race of blue aliens, female in appearance, nearly 2,700 years ago. "He's a spacer; lived aboard starships most of his life."

It was true. Spacers did live aboard starships for most of their lives. Some people thought them space-born vagabonds, but modern military fleets couldn't function without them, and neither could the colonisation drives.

"Military service runs in the family," observed another man. And he would know - he had been a good friend of Shepard's, a mentor of sorts, for many years. His name was David Anderson and he was one of the most decorated war heroes in the Systems Alliance. The Alliance was the representative body of Earth and all human colonies in deep space. "Both his parents were in the Navy."

Please tell me that those paragraphs are not from the book.... 


Now my canon Shep may be a Spacer and all, but damnnn.... that is some wretching, utterly amaturish writing as I've ever seen it.

No, it's not from any book.

It's basically someone writing the opening of Mass Effect in prose form.

[didymos1120]

At this rate, the wiki is going to need an entire "Errors in Mass Effect: Deception" page.

[Yuoaman]

dreman9999 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You think they should take the time to reflect on that?
BS.
She had a dedicated personal tutour who was more of a father for 4(I mean 5 based on theis crasy books timeline.)
years. She turned out well, he did a great job. End story arc about that.

Hm, that's good thinking.  We could probably improve a lot of fiction this way.  Think of how awesome The Empire Strikes Back would have been if Luke had started as a Jedi!

Think of how awesome The Matrix would have been if they skipped all that boring stuff where Neo became The One.  He could have killed Agents like all the way through the movie instead of just at the end.

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No you aren't, but we saw the major events that led to him becoming the far more experienced Jedi we saw in that film.

[dreman9999]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

We don't change to a diffrent person but during our teens we change drasticly, this includes alot of our personality.
Getting bent out of shape over this is point less because if she did getbetter,  alot of parts of her personality would change anyway. I don't need a guide to that because I understand this happen with people at that age. It's once were fully grown we stay stagnet and even then our personality many change over time any way.

Dude, you're completely missing the point.  A profoundly autistic person's journey to recovery is the battle of their life.  Just like Luke's journey to becoming a Jedi, and Neo's journey to becoming The One.  We're not saying it's not realistic, we're saying Dietz is a hack for skipping over it instead of writing about it.

 You make it like the entire series is about her and we need to see every detail of her life.

[Heimdall]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

I wouldn't even know Gillian was autistic if I didn't know beforehand. Dietz has this horrid style of using brief sentences with few details to tell events more than describe them.

Um, do you even realize that children with autisum can grow up to be normal sussessful people.

http://www.parentdis...ks-with-autism/

Hell, Albert Einstein was even autistic.

I'm not saying I need it to be blindingly obvious in her behavior, though I wouldn't expect it to vanish completely considering how she acted in Ascension.  But in Ascension we were given glimpses into Gillian's mind and there is not the lightest similarity in the girl that appeared in Ascension to the girl that appeared in this excert in either behavior or what I could glean of her thoughts from her reactions and what Dietz outright told us she was thinking.

Ask yourself this question....When you were 17, were you anything like the person you were when you were13?
I'm sure I wasn't.

I've changed, but I;m not a completly different person.  Moreover, there are reasons behind that change,  These are the sort of things Dietz should mention.

We don't change to a diffrent person but during our teens we change drasticly, this includes alot of our personality.
Getting bent out of shape over this is point less because if she did getbetter,  alot of parts of her personality would change anyway. I don't need a guide to that because I understand this happen with people at that age. It's once were fully grown we stay stagnet and even then our personality many change over time any way.

She got better, getting bent out of shape because some of us want a bit more depth than that is pointless.  It's the same reason there was so much rage over Liara when ME2 came out.  When a character is much different that she was when we last encountered her, we'd like an explanation.  I'd like to know what life has been like during her time living with only one human being in a ship of aliens.  I'd like to know more than "she lived on the ship and then there was a pirate raid where she learned her father was dead and she swore revenge."  Some of that is disturbingly close to Dietz actual words.

[Yuoaman]

Lord Aesir wrote...

She got better, getting bent out of shape because some of us want a bit more depth than that is pointless.  It's the same reason there was so much rage over Liara when ME2 came out.  When a character is much different that she was when we last encountered her, we'd like an explanation.  I'd like to know what life has been like during her time living with only one human being in a ship of aliens.  I'd like to know more than "she lived on the ship and then there was a pirate raid where she learned her father was dead and she swore revenge."  Some of that is disturbingly close to Dietz actual words.

But with Liara we actually got a comic series that explained how those changes came about for Liara - it's doubtful we'll get anything like that for Gillian.

[CaptainZaysh]

dreman9999 wrote...

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No, you're absolutely right!  Luke returns to his training and, off-screen, between the movies, Luke becomes more of a Jedi.  (He really doesn't become one until the end of the movie when he rejects the Dark Side, as his father was unable to do, stepping out of Vader's shadow.)

That's not the same as Gillian's situation, though.  Luke rejected Yoda, then returned to him.  We saw him learn wisdom and humility, which was the journey he needed to take in order to overcome his character flaw.  Yoda didn't teach him to be a Jedi: Luke did.

The Gillian situation is like jumping straight from Star Wars to Return of the Jedi, and saying "in the meantime Yoda taught Luke to be an awesome Jedi, end of that arc."

[dreman9999]

Yuoaman wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You think they should take the time to reflect on that?
BS.
She had a dedicated personal tutour who was more of a father for 4(I mean 5 based on theis crasy books timeline.)
years. She turned out well, he did a great job. End story arc about that.

Hm, that's good thinking.  We could probably improve a lot of fiction this way.  Think of how awesome The Empire Strikes Back would have been if Luke had started as a Jedi!

Think of how awesome The Matrix would have been if they skipped all that boring stuff where Neo became The One.  He could have killed Agents like all the way through the movie instead of just at the end.

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No you aren't, but we saw the major events that led to him becoming the far more experienced Jedi we saw in that film.

So it wasn't made clear in Ascension that she was taken by Hendel  on to a  quarian ship to protect her from cerberus where he becomes  her own privite tutor?

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 janvier 2012 - 02:53 .

[AVPen]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

AVPen wrote...

Please tell me that those paragraphs are not from the book.... 


Now my canon Shep may be a Spacer and all, but damnnn.... that is some wretching, utterly amaturish writing as I've ever seen it.

No no, I was parodying Dietz's writing style as if he were writing the novelisation for Mass 1.  It's only slightly worse than the real thing, though.

Whew, thank god... can you imagine the sh*tstorm that would've come to BSN if that made its way into the novel? 

Modifié par AVPen, 24 janvier 2012 - 02:52 .

[Heimdall]

Yuoaman wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

She got better, getting bent out of shape because some of us want a bit more depth than that is pointless.  It's the same reason there was so much rage over Liara when ME2 came out.  When a character is much different that she was when we last encountered her, we'd like an explanation.  I'd like to know what life has been like during her time living with only one human being in a ship of aliens.  I'd like to know more than "she lived on the ship and then there was a pirate raid where she learned her father was dead and she swore revenge."  Some of that is disturbingly close to Dietz actual words.

But with Liara we actually got a comic series that explained how those changes came about for Liara - it's doubtful we'll get anything like that for Gillian.

Exactly

[dreman9999]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No, you're absolutely right!  Luke returns to his training and, off-screen, between the movies, Luke becomes more of a Jedi.  (He really doesn't become one until the end of the movie when he rejects the Dark Side, as his father was unable to do, stepping out of Vader's shadow.)

That's not the same as Gillian's situation, though.  Luke rejected Yoda, then returned to him.  We saw him learn wisdom and humility, which was the journey he needed to take in order to overcome his character flaw.  Yoda didn't teach him to be a Jedi: Luke did.

The Gillian situation is like jumping straight from Star Wars to Return of the Jedi, and saying "in the meantime Yoda taught Luke to be an awesome Jedi, end of that arc."

Yes, it is. Hendel becomes her private tutor at the end of Ascension and teaches her to deal with her Autisum off scene.
 How is that different?

[Yuoaman]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You think they should take the time to reflect on that?
BS.
She had a dedicated personal tutour who was more of a father for 4(I mean 5 based on theis crasy books timeline.)
years. She turned out well, he did a great job. End story arc about that.

Hm, that's good thinking.  We could probably improve a lot of fiction this way.  Think of how awesome The Empire Strikes Back would have been if Luke had started as a Jedi!

Think of how awesome The Matrix would have been if they skipped all that boring stuff where Neo became The One.  He could have killed Agents like all the way through the movie instead of just at the end.

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No you aren't, but we saw the major events that led to him becoming the far more experienced Jedi we saw in that film.

So it wasn't made clear in Ascension that she was takenby Hendel [/b] on to a  quarian ship to protect her from cerberus where he played as her own privite tutor?

It was clear, but other than a few small scenes in Ascension we have no real idea of how the relationship played out over the three/six years they were out there.

[CaptainZaysh]

dreman9999 wrote...

So it wasn't made clear in Ascension that she was takenby Hendel [/b] on to a  quarian ship to protect her from cerberus where he played as her own privite tutor?

The trouble is that it's not a heroic solution to the problem.  Heroes don't resolve their problems by receiving external private tuition that fixes them.  They achieve personal development through their own willpower, skill or growth as a person.  i.e. Yoda didn't make Luke a Jedi.  Luke returning to Yoda made Luke a Jedi.

[Heimdall]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You think they should take the time to reflect on that?
BS.
She had a dedicated personal tutour who was more of a father for 4(I mean 5 based on theis crasy books timeline.)
years. She turned out well, he did a great job. End story arc about that.

Hm, that's good thinking.  We could probably improve a lot of fiction this way.  Think of how awesome The Empire Strikes Back would have been if Luke had started as a Jedi!

Think of how awesome The Matrix would have been if they skipped all that boring stuff where Neo became The One.  He could have killed Agents like all the way through the movie instead of just at the end.

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No you aren't, but we saw the major events that led to him becoming the far more experienced Jedi we saw in that film.

So it wasn't made clear in Ascension that she was takenby Hendel [/b] on to a  quarian ship to protect her from cerberus where he played as her own privite tutor?

A private biotic tutor, not a therapist.  There's no reason having Hendel as a tutor should impact her personality.

[Yuoaman]

dreman9999 wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Am I the only one who notice a drastic difference in Luke's personality in Return of the jedi compeared to how he was in the empire strikes back?

No, you're absolutely right!  Luke returns to his training and, off-screen, between the movies, Luke becomes more of a Jedi.  (He really doesn't become one until the end of the movie when he rejects the Dark Side, as his father was unable to do, stepping out of Vader's shadow.)

That's not the same as Gillian's situation, though.  Luke rejected Yoda, then returned to him.  We saw him learn wisdom and humility, which was the journey he needed to take in order to overcome his character flaw.  Yoda didn't teach him to be a Jedi: Luke did.

The Gillian situation is like jumping straight from Star Wars to Return of the Jedi, and saying "in the meantime Yoda taught Luke to be an awesome Jedi, end of that arc."

Yes, it is. Hendel becomes her private tutor at the end of Ascension and teaches her to deal with her Autisum off scene.
 How is that different?

What, no. Hendel was teaching her how to use biotics, the only one who can teach Gillian to deal with her autism is Gillian herself.

[izmirtheastarach]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, it is. Hendel becomes her private tutor at the end of Ascension and teaches her to deal with her Autisum off scene.
 How is that different?

Also she's gone years without being subjected to crazy Cerberus medical treatments, which might have either cause or certainly agravated her Autistic condition.