1294 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, it is. Hendel becomes her private tutor at the end of Ascension and teaches her to deal with her Autisum off scene.
 How is that different?

Also she's gone years without being subjected to crazy Cerberus medical treatments, which might have either cause or certainly agravated her Autistic condition.

That might have been fine if Dietz had noted such  but he didn't.  He just carried on as if we had long known all these characters as they are now.

You mean after the massive blocks of over the top exposition he did in the book already.....You want him to do more?

More of the exposition that matters.  Otherwise we're treated to a bewildering barrage of character action without much reason.

[Yuoaman]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yuoaman wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But there is an explination......Hendel. That's it. Your not asking for explinations your asking for details.
That the same case with Liara.There was an explination, you just wanted details.

There wasn't even a ****ing explanation - Dietz is just going on as if that major plot point from the last book she appeared in just walked off on his own.

Did you not read the partin Ascension where it states Hendel became Gillian's personal tutor on the Quarian ship?

Becoming her personal biotic tutor doesn't mean that we know the details of just what, if anything, he did to help her through her personal issues. Dietz doesn't give us any information on this, just that Hendel is her tutor - it's just bad storytelling.

[Yuoaman]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

You mean after the massive blocks of over the top exposition he did in the book already.....You want him to do more?

No no, characters develop through their actions.  This is what we're saying!  We want to see Gillian dealing with her autism.  We want her to overcome it.  We want to see her do it rather than be told in exposition that she overcame it through some really good tuition and now she can just concentrate on killing mooks.

THIS.

Show, don't tell is one of the most important rule in storytelling - sadly Dietz doesn't seem to understand this, and spends most of the text just telling us what happened instead of showing us what happened, or even the results.

[didymos1120]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Did Bioware not have any control over this though?

In theory, yes.  Doesn't look like anyone spent much time checking over the text though.  There's just all sorts of errors, major and minor.

[TMA LIVE]

Like how about that camera system that finds a person just from a picture of someone's face? I bet finding Thane's son would have been a lot easier that way.

[Yuoaman]

didymos1120 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Did Bioware not have any control over this though?

In theory, yes.  Doesn't look like anyone spent much time checking over the text though.  There's just all sorts of errors, major and minor.

My guess is they just gave Dietz some general things they wanted done, and left him to it. It would explain the many errors in characterization and just general canon.

[CaptainZaysh]

MisterJB wrote...

So, I'm surprised by how well Gillian and Hendel are taking this whole "We'll work with an operative from Cerberus, the very organization we are hiding from and plan to exact bloody vengeance upon." thing.

• Idiot Plot

A plot which functions only because all the characters involved are idiots. They behave in a way that suits the author’s convenience, rather than through any rational motivation of their own. (Attr. James Blish)

[Anacronian Stryx]

didymos1120 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Did Bioware not have any control over this though?

In theory, yes.  Doesn't look like anyone spent much time checking over the text though.  There's just all sorts of errors, major and minor.

I'm gonna guess that they simply didn't care.

The alternative that they actually read and approved of this is just to depressing.

Modifié par Anacronian Stryx, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:10 .

[Yuoaman]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like how about that camera system that finds a person just from a picture of someone's face? I bet finding Thane's son would have been a lot easier that way.

Well the Citadel obviously has a security system - and that footage was gathered overnight. Shepard and Thane likely didn't have the time to just sit at C-Sec and wait for them to cross-reference every camera for one drell - plus that would have just led to them trying to arrest him.

[Yuoaman]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

So, I'm surprised by how well Gillian and Hendel are taking this whole "We'll work with an operative from Cerberus, the very organization we are hiding from and plan to exact bloody vengeance upon." thing.

• Idiot Plot

A plot which functions only because all the characters involved are idiots. They behave in a way that suits the author’s convenience, rather than through any rational motivation of their own. (Attr. James Blish)

They must hand out Idiot Balls to anyone who appears in a book written by Dietz or something.

[dreman9999]

didymos1120 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But there is an explination......Hendel. That's it. Your not asking for explinations your asking for details.
That the same case with Liara.There was an explination, you just wanted details.

Without details, and explanation isn't worth much.  And Hendel actually isn't offered as an explanation because Dietz simply doesn't even acknowledge that she was autistic in the first place.

I think I already covered the fact you guys want details not an explination. It really isn't a problem that they are no details on this off the by and by. It's not important tothe story. It's minor. There other things to hate in this mess.
And you really want another one of his horrible exposition explaining everything about Gillian that you're just going to skip over anyway and whine about later anyway?

Modifié par dreman9999, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:14 .

[dreman9999]

Lord Aesir wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, it is. Hendel becomes her private tutor at the end of Ascension and teaches her to deal with her Autisum off scene.
 How is that different?

Also she's gone years without being subjected to crazy Cerberus medical treatments, which might have either cause or certainly agravated her Autistic condition.

That might have been fine if Dietz had noted such  but he didn't.  He just carried on as if we had long known all these characters as they are now.

You mean after the massive blocks of over the top exposition he did in the book already.....You want him to do more?

More of the exposition that matters.  Otherwise we're treated to a bewildering barrage of character action without much reason.

You did just read this book right?

[didymos1120]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Did Bioware not have any control over this though?

In theory, yes.  Doesn't look like anyone spent much time checking over the text though.  There's just all sorts of errors, major and minor.

I'm gonna guess that they simply didn't care.

The alternative that they actually read and approved of this is just to depressing.

I think it's more a case of they're too busy with ME3 to properly oversee things.

[dreman9999]

Yuoaman wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like how about that camera system that finds a person just from a picture of someone's face? I bet finding Thane's son would have been a lot easier that way.

Well the Citadel obviously has a security system - and that footage was gathered overnight. Shepard and Thane likely didn't have the time to just sit at C-Sec and wait for them to cross-reference every camera for one drell - plus that would have just led to them trying to arrest him.

That would just tell us where he's coming from not were his going.

[TMA LIVE]

Yuoaman wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Like how about that camera system that finds a person just from a picture of someone's face? I bet finding Thane's son would have been a lot easier that way.

Well the Citadel obviously has a security system - and that footage was gathered overnight. Shepard and Thane likely didn't have the time to just sit at C-Sec and wait for them to cross-reference every camera for one drell - plus that would have just led to them trying to arrest him.

True.

[didymos1120]

dreman9999 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But there is an explination......Hendel. That's it. Your not asking for explinations your asking for details.
That the same case with Liara.There was an explination, you just wanted details.

Without details, and explanation isn't worth much.  And Hendel actually isn't offered as an explanation because Dietz simply doesn't even acknowledge that she was autistic in the first place.

I think I already covered the fact you guys want details not an explination. *snip*

Yes, and it's nonsense, for exactly the reason I just said: an explanation without details is really no explanation at all. This wouldn't fly in any other field, so why should it fly in writing?

[CaptainZaysh]

dreman9999 wrote...

And you really want another one of his horrible exposition explaining everything about Gillian that you're just going to skip over anyway and whine about later anyway?

No!  What we want is Gillian to either be autistic (character flaw) or overcome her autism (hero's journey).  Neither of those things are exposition.  Exposition is telling us that, some time ago and off camera, Gillian overcame her autism, so we can all get back to the pew pew now.

[Yuoaman]

An explanation is nothing if we don't know the circumstances or the details, that's why we're trying to get across. Dietz is just a very sloppy writer in this regard.

[MisterJB]

Yuoaman wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

So, I'm surprised by how well Gillian and Hendel are taking this whole "We'll work with an operative from Cerberus, the very organization we are hiding from and plan to exact bloody vengeance upon." thing.

• Idiot Plot

A plot which functions only because all the characters involved are idiots. They behave in a way that suits the author’s convenience, rather than through any rational motivation of their own. (Attr. James Blish)

They must hand out Idiot Balls to anyone who appears in a book written by Dietz or something.

"Gillian, let's be careful here. This man just admitted that he worked for Cerberus and knew your father. However, why would Cerberus accept Grayson back after he deliberatelly sabotaged their attack on the Idenna? I think it is much more probrable that he is aware of The Illusive Man's wish to have you as a test subject and has contacts on the Citadel that will capture and deliver you to Cerberus."

Really? Is that hard?

[didymos1120]

CaptainZaysh wrote...
Exposition is telling us that, some time ago and off camera, Gillian overcame her autism, so we can all get back to the pew pew now.

Which Dietz actually didn't even bother to do.  Not one, single, solitary mention of her autism.  It's as if it never existed.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .

[AVPen]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

AVPen wrote...
Whew, thank god... can you imagine the sh*tstorm that would've come to BSN if that made its way into the novel? 

Dude, that is what he writes like!  :happy:

Oh, I know his writing is absolute sh*t, doesn't take a minute of reading through the exerpt to see that... I was refering to the "canonize" of Shepard's background in that paragraph of yours. 

[1136342t54_]

I honestly felt that the beginning was missing a lot to the point where it cannot be the final version.

[didymos1120]

1136342t54 wrote...

I honestly felt that the beginning was missing a lot to the point where it cannot be the final version.

You wish. The publisher is the one putting this out as a teaser.  It ain't changin' now.

[CaptainZaysh]

On the plus side, I did quite like the cover.

[Yuoaman]

Bad Exposition:
Gillian had been autistic when she first arrived on the Idenna, but Hendel was somehow able to coax her out of it with his charm and skill with biotics, or something.

Good Establishing Scene:
Gillian had been sitting on her bed, nearly catatonic, since they had returned from the batarian ship. She had changed much in these few short years that Hendel had trouble sometimes remembering that she was still that poor, damaged little girl. It had been a long time since she had reacted to anything with this severity, though, but then again... it had been quite a doozy.

Now, I'm not saying that's good writing (and I used the word 'doozy' just for the hell of it), but it provides a lot more character information than just a straight up bit of exposition would.