498 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucifer_Cheney]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'll grant you that Ashley has a prejudice toward aliens (provided you didn't or couldn't romance her), however, its not racism due to the fact that she doesn't believe humanity is better than non-humans.

Prejudice=racism. Or, in this case, speciesism.

Prejudice leads to racism, but it isn't racism per se. Racism is the systematic oppression of a particular group of people (economic, judicial, militarily etc.) whearas prejuidice is more about a preconceived bias against an individual or group. It may seem like semantics, but its really not.

[Xilizhra]

I believe racism is simply disliking anyone because of their race. And I believe that your side is highly desperate to alter words so that they don't apply to Ashley. It's not the end of the world.

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

Racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

There, I got you the definition so you can stop arguing about what racism is. Just replace the word "human" with "alien", obviously.

[Zkyire]

Xilizhra wrote...

I believe racism is simply disliking anyone because of their race. And I believe that your side is highly desperate to alter words so that they don't apply to Ashley. It's not the end of the world.

[Made Nightwing]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...


Pardon me while I laugh my arse off at your overweening arrogance. You assume that YOU know what her created personality is? Rather than say, her writer? The same writer who said that Ashley IS NOT racist, but rather cautious and brutally pragmatic, holding no hate toward aliens, or any belief that humans are inherently superior.

Pragmatic - Dealing or concerned with facts or actual occurrences; practical

Go ahead and laugh all you want, I'm going to laugh at the fact that you think a person who believes in god in a time of space travel is "brutally pragmatic"

In fact, I would go so far to say that Ashley is the least cautious and pragmatic companion you obtain in Mass Effect 1.

Commander Shepard - "When I want an opinion from the head, I go to Alenko. When I want an opinion from the heart I go to you Williams"

Even Shepard thinks she is emotionally driven rather than pragmatic.


Also, I don't care how she was "written" I am concerned how she is in the game. And it's pretty obvious she is definately NOT pragmatic because she barely uses facts for anything she supports. She is also NOT overly cautious considering she continuously says hurtful things to the aliens you meet throughout the game, who she is just SO sure will backstab her.

Believing in God doesn't disqualify you from higher reasoning, or thought, or pragmatism. Who said atheists are the only ones that are pragmatic? (Not gonna say that I know religious people who are pragmatic, or know atheists that aren't, but you're generalising a little too much for my taste)

Least cautious? ...no. Cautious and pragmatic are probably the two words that describe Ashley best. Hesitance to trust people that she just met and knows next to nothing about? That's caution at it's most basic, at least, how society how understands the word. Being careful and withdrawn because you don't know the intentions of the people you're dealing with. Again, caution and pragmatism.

The opposite of being pragmatic would be her skipping along, saying 'Sure, Shepard. I have absolutely no problem with all these aliens coming on board, despite the fact that we met them a few hours ago and know nothing about them .'

How she was written is how she appears in game, my friend. The writer stated his perspective, and enough people agree with that perspective (both fans and non fans), that I know I'm not grasping at straws, or mistaken in my perspective.

"I hope this mission will help change people's opinion of the quarians."
"I feel sorry for her, no one should feel like they're not good enough."
"She's probably hurting right now, you should go talk to her."

Yep, REALLY hurtful things right there.

[Made Nightwing]

Xilizhra wrote...

I believe racism is simply disliking anyone because of their race. And I believe that your side is highly desperate to alter words so that they don't apply to Ashley. It's not the end of the world.

You just took a big step in winning our argument for us. Nowhere in the game does Ash dislike someone because of their species. Any dislike she has toward Liara is because Liara is a potential rival for Shepard's affections (she admits that she was more angry at Shepard for jerking both of them around), a dislike she'd have even if Liara were human.

She doesn't dislike Garrus or Wrex because they're aliens. She harbours mistrust because they are newcomers that she knows nothing about, one of them a mercenary and the other a wildcard.

She dislikes the Council because...well...does ANYONE like the Council?

[Made Nightwing]

Xilizhra wrote...

I believe racism is simply disliking anyone because of their race. And I believe that your side is highly desperate to alter words so that they don't apply to Ashley. It's not the end of the world.

You just took a big step in winning our argument for us. Nowhere in the game does Ash dislike someone because of their species. Any dislike she has toward Liara is because Liara is a potential rival for Shepard's affections (she admits that she was more angry at Shepard for jerking both of them around), a dislike she'd have even if Liara were human.

She doesn't dislike Garrus or Wrex because they're aliens. She harbours mistrust because they are newcomers that she knows nothing about, one of them a mercenary and the other a wildcard.

She dislikes the Council because...well...does ANYONE like the Council?

[Xilizhra]

You just took a big step in winning our argument for us. Nowhere in the game does Ash dislike someone because of their species. Any dislike she has toward Liara is because Liara is a potential rival for Shepard's affections (she admits that she was more angry at Shepard for jerking both of them around), a dislike she'd have even if Liara were human.

Which occurs even if Shepard is female. This might work if Ashley turns out to be bisexual, but otherwise...

She doesn't dislike Garrus or Wrex because they're aliens. She harbours mistrust because they are newcomers that she knows nothing about, one of them a mercenary and the other a wildcard.

And aliens.

She dislikes the Council because...well...does ANYONE like the Council?

Some appreciate it more.

[McManus001]

I dont get where all this Ashley is a racist stuff comes from personally all i saw her as was to distrustful of aliens which is understanable firstly because she hasnt had much interaction with them and second of course she doesnt like Turians after all they ruined her Grandfathers life and brought dishonour to her family

[Made Nightwing]

Xilizhra wrote...

You just took a big step in winning our argument for us. Nowhere in the game does Ash dislike someone because of their species. Any dislike she has toward Liara is because Liara is a potential rival for Shepard's affections (she admits that she was more angry at Shepard for jerking both of them around), a dislike she'd have even if Liara were human.

Which occurs even if Shepard is female. This might work if Ashley turns out to be bisexual, but otherwise...

She doesn't dislike Garrus or Wrex because they're aliens. She harbours mistrust because they are newcomers that she knows nothing about, one of them a mercenary and the other a wildcard.

And aliens.

She dislikes the Council because...well...does ANYONE like the Council?

Some appreciate it more.

Note: I missed one other reason, Liara is also the daughter of Saren's right hand. Even if Shep is female, that doesn't change. Sure, Liara claims that she is trustworthy but she could be lying.

(and aliens) Mercenary and loose canon cop, remember? She wouldn't trust them even if they were humans.

[Clayless]

jreezy wrote...

SkyeHawk89 wrote...

Why are people bashing about Liara? That mean I could bash about Ashley for being Racist. I trust Liara, she's the hottest and most interesting, I'm a proud Liaramancer.

Calm down, this isn't a Liara bashing thread. Did you read or did you just skim through it?

I'm still waiting for you to prove those claims you made earlier.

[terdferguson123]

Made Nightwing wrote...


Believing in God doesn't disqualify you from higher reasoning, or thought, or pragmatism. Who said atheists are the only ones that are pragmatic? (Not gonna say that I know religious people who are pragmatic, or know atheists that aren't, but you're generalising a little too much for my taste)

Least cautious? ...no. Cautious and pragmatic are probably the two words that describe Ashley best. Hesitance to trust people that she just met and knows next to nothing about? That's caution at it's most basic, at least, how society how understands the word. Being careful and withdrawn because you don't know the intentions of the people you're dealing with. Again, caution and pragmatism.

The opposite of being pragmatic would be her skipping along, saying 'Sure, Shepard. I have absolutely no problem with all these aliens coming on board, despite the fact that we met them a few hours ago and know nothing about them .'

How she was written is how she appears in game, my friend. The writer stated his perspective, and enough people agree with that perspective (both fans and non fans), that I know I'm not grasping at straws, or mistaken in my perspective.

"I hope this mission will help change people's opinion of the quarians."
"I feel sorry for her, no one should feel like they're not good enough."
"She's probably hurting right now, you should go talk to her."

Yep, REALLY hurtful things right there.

While I understand what your saying, I have to disagree pragmatism and religion are directly opposite of each other. Pragmatism is thought based on facts, Religion is thought based on faith, the two have no connection whatsoever. 

I also did not say she was the opposite of Pragmatic, I said she was the least pragmatic of your companions. She is not cautious at all, she spends a great deal of time comparing aliens to animals, insulting them for being different than herself, and generally mistrusting them even after they have proven themselves. Ashley is just as new to the ship as Garrus or Wrex, just because she is human, does not give her the right to think Shepard should trust her more than them.

[1136342t54_]

Xilizhra wrote...
Prejudice=racism. Or, in this case, speciesism.

To be more accurate that is really incorrect. A prejudice can easily be used in any situation. Someone can have a prejudice against a conservative automatically assuming a conservative will support the Republican GOP presidential candidates when that is not always true. 

[CptData]

terdferguson123 wrote...

While I understand what your saying, I have to disagree pragmatism and religion are directly opposite of each other. Pragmatism is thought based on facts, Religion is thought based on faith, the two have no connection whatsoever. 

I also did not say she was the opposite of Pragmatic, I said she was the least pragmatic of your companions. She is not cautious at all, she spends a great deal of time comparing aliens to animals, insulting them for being different than herself, and generally mistrusting them even after they have proven themselves. Ashley is just as new to the ship as Garrus or Wrex, just because she is human, does not give her the right to think Shepard should trust her more than them.

I could concur with your statement about pragmatism and religiosity. However, we don't know if Christians / Jews (Ash is most likely either one or the other) are still following the same rules they do today. Maybe religions are less strict and allow "pragmatism"?

Ashley never felt like a religios zealot. Sure, she believes in God. So does my fiancee. I'm an Atheist. Neither do I feel offended in some way nor does my fiancee -not- act pragmatic. It works. You can be a believer and a pragmatist at the same time as long as you're no zealot.

[Dean_the_Young]

Is Xil still unable to recognize a figure of speech?

[CptData]

1136342t54 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Prejudice=racism. Or, in this case, speciesism.

To be more accurate that is really incorrect. A prejudice can easily be used in any situation. Someone can have a prejudice against a conservative automatically assuming a conservative will support the Republican GOP presidential candidates when that is not always true. 

Indeed. Racism can be a result of prejudice, but prejudice is no racism.

And what you say is right. I'm not a big fan of conservatism (I like future a tad too much than to be conservative) - but Republicans? Sorry ... seems they're hating everything and everyone that doesn't make money or is white. They had a good time ... uhh ... Lincoln was a Rep. Long time ago. <_<

Modifié par CptData, 28 janvier 2012 - 08:50 .

[1136342t54_]

CptData wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Prejudice=racism. Or, in this case, speciesism.

To be more accurate that is really incorrect. A prejudice can easily be used in any situation. Someone can have a prejudice against a conservative automatically assuming a conservative will support the Republican GOP presidential candidates when that is not always true. 

Indeed. Racism can be a result of prejudice, but prejudice is no racism.

And what you say is right. I'm not a big fan of conservatism (I like future a tad too much than to be conservative) - but Republicans? Sorry ... seems they're hating everything and everyone that doesn't make money or is white. They had a good time ... uhh ... Lincoln was a Rep. Long time ago. <_<

People get it confused too often. Makes me wonder if some of them ever had taken Sociology in highschool or College. 

I won't get into a political discussion (don't want to derail the thread) but I can agree. Some Republicans are actually sane I even had one as a economics teacher but many of the recent presidential candidates really makes me wonder WTF happened to the party.

[Ryzaki]

I don't think the democrats are that better. It's like the whole thing has gone to hell. =/ Too much kissing corporations asses.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't think the democrats are that better. It's like the whole thing has gone to hell. =/ Too much kissing corporations asses.

They aren't that much better but they aren't the party who essentially held the world's economy hostage like they were run by freaking Cobra commander lol.

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

Both parties are bad, but the Republicans are worse.

Just the opinion of a chicken (and a Canadian one at that), take it for what it's worth.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't think the democrats are that better. It's like the whole thing has gone to hell. =/ Too much kissing corporations asses.

They aren't that much better but they aren't the party who essentially held the world's economy hostage like they were run by freaking Cobra commander lol.

I have to laugh to stave off the crying.

[OrdinaryTenant]

Ashley was right. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and possibly even Garrus, never should have been allowed access to the Normandy's systems.

How can it be racism, if it's right?

Modifié par OrdinaryTenant, 28 janvier 2012 - 09:58 .