498 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

jreezy wrote...

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Ashley was right. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and possibly even Garrus, never should have been allowed access to the Normandy's systems.

How can it be racism, if it's right?

She never complained about Tali.

Funny thing: I always imagined Ash & Tali as close friends at the end of ME1. Almost like sisters. Which seems to fit since Ash is the eldest of four sisters AND Tali appears to be much younger and less experienced.

[Made Nightwing]

terdferguson123 wrote...


While I understand what your saying, I have to disagree pragmatism and religion are directly opposite of each other. Pragmatism is thought based on facts, Religion is thought based on faith, the two have no connection whatsoever. 

I also did not say she was the opposite of Pragmatic, I said she was the least pragmatic of your companions. She is not cautious at all, she spends a great deal of time comparing aliens to animals, insulting them for being different than herself, and generally mistrusting them even after they have proven themselves. Ashley is just as new to the ship as Garrus or Wrex, just because she is human, does not give her the right to think Shepard should trust her more than them.

You talk about pragmatism as if it's a belief system. It's not. It's a way of thinking, of approaching life. Likewise, facts are not 'things' that exist. Facts are proven statements about certain things. There are facts about building, facts about religion, facts about politics, facts about science, facts about the Earth, facts about the sun, etc.

You could be as pragmatic about religion as you could about anything else in your life. Again, being pragmatic is not a belief system, therefore it cannot be measured against religion.

When she makes that statement, none of them have so far proven themselves. Tali, in a way, has (which could be why she doesn't put Tali on the list of people that shouldn't be allowed access). She never insults anyone for being different from her, nor does she compare aliens to animals at all. In the dog/bear analogy, she's saying that humanity is the dog and the Council is the human.

She's a SYSTEMS ALLIANCE MARINE?! REMEMBER? The same service as Shepard? She has every right to think that she'd be a little more trusted than a mercenary that just got picked up a few minutes earlier. Your statement is ludicrously off the mark.

[Ryzaki]

jreezy wrote...

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Ashley was right. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and possibly even Garrus, never should have been allowed access to the Normandy's systems.

How can it be racism, if it's right?

She never complained about Tali.

Which to me is more ridculous.

Yes you're gonna get odd about aliens poking around the Normandy's systems (even a cop who is a member of the race that co-developed the damn Normandy in the first place) but the random Quarian girl? Nah she's perfectly okay even when she's examing the state of the art stealth system that's the only one of it's kind.

Only thing I ever see Garrus doing is looking at the Mako.

It's so hilariously off base that it's pathetic. If you're gonna distrust them at least distrust them all equally.

A pragmatic person would've been far more cautious of Tali than Garrus.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:02 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

jreezy wrote...

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Ashley was right. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and possibly even Garrus, never should have been allowed access to the Normandy's systems.

How can it be racism, if it's right?

She never complained about Tali.

Which to me is more ridculous.

Yes you're gonna get odd about aliens poking around the Normandy's systems (even a cop who is a member of the race that co-developed the damn Normandy in the first place) but the random Quarian girl? Nah she's perfectly okay even when she's examing the state of the art stealth system that's the only one of it's kind.

Only thing I ever see Garrus doing is looking at the Mako.

It's so hilariously off base that it's pathetic.

A pragmatic person would've been far more cautious of Tali than Garrus.

Actually she did kind of complain about Tali but she never said her name. She states how letting aliens near the engines and weapons were a problem. I assumed she was mentioning Tali then.

[OrdinaryTenant]

jreezy wrote...

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Ashley was right. Tali, Wrex, Liara, and possibly even Garrus, never should have been allowed access to the Normandy's systems.

How can it be racism, if it's right?

She never complained about Tali.

I believe you.  I wonder why that was.  I suppose it was because Udina put Tali on the Normandy (possibly even over Commander Shepard's objections), so she knew mentioning Tali was a non-starter.

1136342t54 wrote...
Actually she did kind of complain about Tali but she never said her name. She states how letting aliens near the engines and weapons were a problem. I assumed she was mentioning Tali then.

Or this.



===
In any case, what I was really getting at is that alien nationals whose backgrounds range from "dubious" to "outright alarming" should not be allowed anywhere near top-secret military technologies.  I have to think that this is entirely rational, sensible, and frankly, correct. 

Modifié par OrdinaryTenant, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:12 .

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Actually she did kind of complain about Tali but she never said her name. She states how letting aliens near the engines and weapons were a problem. I assumed she was mentioning Tali then.

Yeah I kind of had to assume that as well because the other way makes her look like a moron. Not that she looks particularly bright acting as though Shepard and Anderson never would've thought of that in the first place if she hadn't brought it up. >_>

I really wanted renegade Shep to be nice and sarcastic and go "No really? I never would've thought of that!" 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:06 .

[wheezemaster]

my whole thing is me2. when you try hard to get her to like you in me2 she just spits in your face. even though she sends and apology letter, liars reunion is much better. so thats why i chose her over ashley. plus it seems like ashley is alot colder and more brutal.

[BlueMagitek]

Eh, typically Ash was there when Tali was forced to go with Shepard by Udina & Anderson, if I recall correctly.

Not that it makes it okay, but it isn't like Tali had a large part outside of the beginning of the game anyway. >.>

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
Actually she did kind of complain about Tali but she never said her name. She states how letting aliens near the engines and weapons were a problem. I assumed she was mentioning Tali then.

Yeah I kind of had to assume that as well because the other way makes her look like a moron. Not that she looks particularly bright acting as though Shepard and Anderson never would've thought of that in the first place if she hadn't brought it up. >_>

I really wanted renegade Shep to be nice and sarcastic and go "No really? I never would've thought of that!" 

It isn't really like she assumed they didn't think about it but voicing her concerns and asking how her commanding officer felt about it. Those are quite reasonable concerns and the fact she isn't really questioning his orders and will go a long with it shows she trust Shepard enough that what he did was for the right reasons. Hell most people would be a bit worried if a Krogan was anywhere near them let alone one that can crush you with his mind lol.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 29 janvier 2012 - 12:11 .

[Chun Hei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Only thing I ever see Garrus doing is looking at the Mako.

The guns on that Mako WERE very well calibrated.

[Chun Hei]

Ryzaki wrote...

I really wanted renegade Shep to be nice and sarcastic and go "No really? I never would've thought of that!" 

S/he probably did not think about it. S/he had a similar brain fart on Horizon and another at the derelict Reaper corpse.

[Ryzaki]

Chun Hei wrote...
S/he probably did not think about it. S/he had a similar brain fart on Horizon and another at the derelict Reaper corpse.

Nope. He/she can agree with Ash's concerns so yes he/she thought about it. Shep can be pretty damn intelligent when the plot doesn't demand s/he carry the idiot ball. Derelict Reaper and Horizon wouldn't have achieved what the devs wanted if Shep wasn't carrying the idiot ball.

Chun Hei wrote...

The guns on that Mako WERE very well calibrated.

1136342t54 wrote...
It isn't really like she assumed they didn't think about it but voicing her concerns and asking how her commanding officer felt about it. Those are quite reasonable concerns and the fact she isn't really questioning his orders and will go a long with it shows she trust Shepard enough that what he did was for the right reasons. Hell most people would be a bit worried if a Krogan was anywhere near them let alone one that can crush you with his mind lol.

I only got the impression she wasn't questioning his orders because at that point he was in command and could throw her off the ship. Not to mention her killing Wrex without Shep ordering her to throws out the she trusts Shep enough to know what he did was for the right reasons out the window.

And if Shep really was concerned about Wrex he wouldn't have recruited him. It is a choice. Clearly Shep invited the Krogan along because he trusts him enough to go after Saren if nothing else.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:18 .

[Chun Hei]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nope. He/she can agree with Ash's concerns so yes he/she thought about it. Shep can be pretty damn intelligent when the plot doesn't demand s/he carry the idiot ball. Derelict Reaper and Horizon wouldn't have achieved what the devs wanted if Shep wasn't carrying the idiot ball.

The same can be said about the VS.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
I only got the impression she wasn't questioning his orders because at that point he was in command and could throw her off the ship. Not to mention her killing Wrex without Shep ordering her to throws out the she trusts Shep enough to know what he did was for the right reasons out the window.

And if Shep really was concerned about Wrex he wouldn't have recruited him. It is a choice.

It was more like she wanted to see what Shep's reasoning was for keeping the aliens on board. Simply asking that question could easily help assuade some personal feelings about the subject if she thinks her commander actually has the right idea.

The Wrex argument is just going to last another couple of hours for no reason. I think due to how Wrex is (remember this is the same guy who wanted to solo a Salarian base) was going to shoot shepard and that Ashley was in the right due to Shepard basically ordering her to watch his back. 

You don't and it isn't going to change lol.

[Ryzaki]

Chun Hei wrote...

The same can be said about the VS.

During Horizon? Yeah it could be said they were carrying the idiot ball.

Particularly with the Cerberus obviously has you fooled tangent after they just saw what the hell the Collectors were doing.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

It was more like she wanted to see what Shep's reasoning was for keeping the aliens on board. Simply asking that question could easily help assuade some personal feelings about the subject if she thinks her commander actually has the right idea.

The Wrex argument is just going to last another couple of hours for no reason. I think due to how Wrex is (remember this is the same guy who wanted to solo a Salarian base) was going to shoot shepard and that Ashley was in the right due to Shepard basically ordering her to watch his back. 

You don't and it isn't going to change lol.

And I'm going to keep seeing it as her acting like no one took reasonable precautions or thought the negatives outgained the postivies.

Shep doesn't have to order Ash to watch his back though. (at least I could've sworn I had a few games (only maxed paragon mind though) where Shep doesn't. Could be disremembering that though.

And yeah you're right let's not get on that carousel again. It'll go nowhere.

[Ryzaki]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's a good thing Ashley took the initiative and was ready to shoot Wrex because if it goes that far you've failed and Wrex is gonna kill you.

Why people are so eager to forgive Wrex for attempting to murder you is beyond me.

Wait, not it isn't. He's likable, so it's that simple. Still, he crosses the line when he pulls that gun on Shepard.

I hope you mean what you say with that "he crossed a line when he pulled that gun on Shepard." and I hope that applies for everyone and not just Wrex.

As for the Wrex is gonna kill you angle. Not seeing that at all. Attacking Shepard at that moment is stupid. Wrex would be better off walking away (since the only Shepard that would've talked to him that long would've been a paragon and paragon Shepard is highly unlikely to shoot him in the back) and try to get the cure on his own. It's far more sensible than trying to fight Shepard, the STG and the rest of the companions and then deal with Saren and his ilk.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:30 .

[BlueMagitek]

You underestimate Wrex; taking down the main character and then the villain's dragon on a crab filled world is just what he does. =D

[OrdinaryTenant]

Ryzaki wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's a
good thing Ashley took the initiative and was ready to shoot Wrex
because if it goes that far you've failed and Wrex is gonna kill you.

Why people are so eager to forgive Wrex for attempting to murder you is beyond me.

Wait, not it isn't. He's likable, so it's that simple. Still, he crosses the line when he pulls that gun on Shepard.

I hope you mean what you say with that "he crossed a line when he pulled that gun on Shepard." and I hope that applies for everyone and not just Wrex.

As for the Wrex is gonna kill you angle. Not seeing that at all. Attacking Shepard at that moment is stupid. Wrex would be better off walking away (since the only Shepard that would've talked to him that long would've been a paragon and paragon Shepard is highly unlikely to shoot him in the back) and try to get the cure on his own. It's far more sensible than trying to fight Shepard, the STG and the rest of the companions and then deal with Saren and his ilk.

Not all "gun-pullings" are created equal. (that's what she said!)

But seriously, what I mean is there's a pretty big difference between a krogan battlemaster pulling a gun on you while the two of you are in the middle of a very heated argument, and (for example) some panicky salarian construction worker pulling a gun on you when you bust into his hidey-hole right after a firefight.

Modifié par OrdinaryTenant, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:37 .

[Ryzaki]

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Not all "gun-pullings" are created equal. (that's what she said!)

But seriously, what I mean is there's a pretty big difference between a krogan battlemaster pulling a gun on you while the two of you are in the middle of a very heated argument, and (for example) some panicky salarian construction worker pulling a gun on you when you bust into his hidey-hole right after a firefight.

*in which case I'd expect the Shepard to punch the Salarian in the face. Him being panicky doesn't mean he won't shoot Shepard. Heck it increases the chances*

Killing him in that scenario would be overkill though.

[Made Nightwing]

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Not all "gun-pullings" are created equal. (that's what she said!)

But seriously, what I mean is there's a pretty big difference between a krogan battlemaster pulling a gun on you while the two of you are in the middle of a very heated argument, and (for example) some panicky salarian construction worker pulling a gun on you when you bust into his hidey-hole right after a firefight.

Yep, I'm seeing your angle. Wrex's whole culture is built around the fact that they don't threaten violence unless they intend to inflict it...and they threaten violence all the time.

[Ryzaki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Not all "gun-pullings" are created equal. (that's what she said!)

But seriously, what I mean is there's a pretty big difference between a krogan battlemaster pulling a gun on you while the two of you are in the middle of a very heated argument, and (for example) some panicky salarian construction worker pulling a gun on you when you bust into his hidey-hole right after a firefight.

Yep, I'm seeing your angle. Wrex's whole culture is built around the fact that they don't threaten violence unless they intend to inflict it...and they threaten violence all the time.

Oh? Where did Wrex threaten to shoot Shepard?

All I heard was no more talking and I'm doing this my way. I heard nothing about killing Shepard.

[Made Nightwing]

@Ryzaki. I don't know about you, but in my country, when somebody pulls a gun on you, it's a fairly big indication that they're either going to rob you or shoot you. Some things don't require words.