498 réponses à ce sujet

[CptData]

I'm wondering why - almost five years since ME got released - we're still debating if it was a good move of Ashley to shoot Wrex while he's pointing a loaded weapon at her commanding officer.

To make it short:

Yes. If you fail to convince Wrex because you didn't do his family-armor mission, then it's your fault. And Ashley just saved your Shepard's sorry ass.
That doesn't make her to a racist...

[Ryzaki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. I don't know about you, but in my country, when somebody pulls a gun on you, it's a fairly big indication that they're either going to rob you or shoot you. Some things don't require words.

Yes I suppose him and Shepard taking out the guns mutually was because they intended to shoot each other even when they spend the next several moments talking right? 

Naiveness or not I'm still not seeing Wrex as willing to kill SHepard in that scene. Not unless Shepard tried to stop him or attacked first.

@CptData: I said nothing about it making her racist and no she did not save my Shep's "sorry ass." and even if she did he saved her sorry ass twice by that point.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:42 .

[BlueMagitek]

It was a good move; people are just annoyed because, heaven forbid, a character do something on their own.

And, if I remember correctly, if you do not recruit Garrus or Liara by Virmire, Wrex steps down automatically.

[Ryzaki]

BlueMagitek wrote...

It was a good move; people are just annoyed because, heaven forbid, a character do something on their own.

And, if I remember correctly, if you do not recruit Garrus or Liara by Virmire, Wrex steps down automatically.

Nah that's not my issue. It's more like she decided that Shep somehow needed her aid.

It's more like Shep automatically gets the persuade right isn't it? He doesn't step down Shep just gets more persuasive. Probably because he/she realizes they need more people.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:45 .

[Made Nightwing]

@Ryzaki. I'm sorry, but that's just too naive to be possible. The argument was heating up to the point where an outburst was probably going to happen. In several of the dialogue options, Shepard was remarkably insulting toward Wrex. And considering how angry Wrex was, it's entirely possible his judgement was clouded.

Krogan respect strength and kill weakness. That is the moment where Shepard either proves himself the strongest, or the moment where he demonstrates that he's not worthy of Wrex's respect. If the latter was the case, then krogan reasoning would dictate lethal action.

If Shepard hasn't already earnt Wrex's respect, or can't convince him of the rightness of his actions, then we can't expect Wrex to act like a human.

[Xilizhra]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It's a good thing Ashley took the initiative and was ready to shoot Wrex because if it goes that far you've failed and Wrex is gonna kill you.

Why people are so eager to forgive Wrex for attempting to murder you is beyond me.

Wait, not it isn't. He's likable, so it's that simple. Still, he crosses the line when he pulls that gun on Shepard.

I can hardly take it personally every time someone tries to shoot me, can I? Wrex didn't even try anything, as such (though I always did the family armor mission regardless).

[Made Nightwing]

@Xilizhra. You probably should. To quote Malcolm Reynolds: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."

[Xilizhra]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Xilizhra. You probably should. To quote Malcolm Reynolds: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."

I'm not Malcolm Reynolds.

[Ryzaki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. I'm sorry, but that's just too naive to be possible. The argument was heating up to the point where an outburst was probably going to happen. In several of the dialogue options, Shepard was remarkably insulting toward Wrex. And considering how angry Wrex was, it's entirely possible his judgement was clouded.

Krogan respect strength and kill weakness. That is the moment where Shepard either proves himself the strongest, or the moment where he demonstrates that he's not worthy of Wrex's respect. If the latter was the case, then krogan reasoning would dictate lethal action.

If Shepard hasn't already earnt Wrex's respect, or can't convince him of the rightness of his actions, then we can't expect Wrex to act like a human.

Yeah you have to choose the overly insulting options. It's not forced. Unless my memory is off.

Yes because all Krogan think exactly alike right? There's no way Wrex was going to do anything other than what other Krogan would do.

Probably to me in that scenario isn't a good enough reason to decide your judgement is better than your COs. If Ash had been in Shep's position and put Wrex down I wouldn't bat an eye.

[Made Nightwing]

Xilizhra wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Xilizhra. You probably should. To quote Malcolm Reynolds: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."

I'm not Malcolm Reynolds.

So you're saying that if someone tried to kill you, you wouldn't try to kill them before they could do it?

[Ryzaki]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
Why do you think Wrex pulled his weapon then?

(and, btw, he pulled his BEFORE Shep pulled his.)

Anger and because if Shep had tried to stop him he would've shot Shep.

I'm not seeing him killing Shepard in anger though.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nah that's not my issue. It's more like she decided that Shep somehow needed her aid.

It's more like Shep automatically gets the persuade right isn't it? He doesn't step down Shep just gets more persuasive. Probably because he/she realizes they need more people.

Well, Shep *would*.  He's not Zaeed or Kai Leng; no killing a Krogan in a knife fight for him.  
Seriously though, not only does it remove the blood from Shepard's hands, but it takes the risk out of just allowing Shepard to try and wrestle a gun from a Krogan.

I think it's more like:

Shepard:  Wrex, listen, I only have four party members.  If you leave the party, I only have three.  Up ahead, my fellow Alliance marines are going to split up.  That leaves me to take on Saren with Tali.
Wrex:  *huff* Fiiiiiiine.
Tali:  I'm standing right here!

[Xilizhra]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Xilizhra. You probably should. To quote Malcolm Reynolds: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."

I'm not Malcolm Reynolds.

So you're saying that if someone tried to kill you, you wouldn't try to kill them before they could do it?

Well, so far as I can tell, every time I enter a room, the enemy shoots at me before I can shoot at them. So apparently not.

[Made Nightwing]

@Ryzaki. You're judging Wrex by human standards. A human might not have killed Shepard in anger. But if Wrex was angry enough and felt that Shepard was a whining little worm, then he would have killed him, it's the most obvious option.

[K_Tabris]

Here's a hypothetical scenario:

Shepard takes Jack and Ashley to Jack's loyalty mission. Let's also say, the fellow former prisoner refuses to leave the base, causing Shepard to say no to blowing it up. Jack subsequently pulls a gun (or, more likely, readies herself to pull a biotic attack) on Shepard.

Ashley disables her in the nick of time.

It's basically the same scenario. Just because Wrex was not a human, doesn't make Ashley a racist for pulling the trigger to protect her commanding officer. Nor does it make her racist for wanting to err on the side of caution when expressing concerns over security to Shepard. (the conversation regarding the aliens poking around an advanced Alliance prototype, etc. etc.).

The OP is 100 % correct. People who call Ashley a racist are ignorant and misunderstand her character completely.

[Ryzaki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. You're judging Wrex by human standards. A human might not have killed Shepard in anger. But if Wrex was angry enough and felt that Shepard was a whining little worm, then he would have killed him, it's the most obvious option.

And that's judging him just because of his race.

Where is he insunating that Shep's a whining little worm or that killing Shep is the obvious solution?

BlueMagitek wrote...
Well, Shep *would*.  He's not Zaeed or Kai Leng; no killing a Krogan in a knife fight for him.  
Seriously
though, not only does it remove the blood from Shepard's hands, but it
takes the risk out of just allowing Shepard to try and wrestle a gun
from a Krogan.

I think it's more like:

Shepard:  Wrex,
listen, I only have four party members.  If you leave the party, I only
have three.  Up ahead, my fellow Alliance marines are going to split up.
 That leaves me to take on Saren with Tali.
Wrex:  *huff* Fiiiiiiine.
Tali:  I'm standing right here!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:54 .

[1136342t54_]

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. You're judging Wrex by human standards. A human might not have killed Shepard in anger. But if Wrex was angry enough and felt that Shepard was a whining little worm, then he would have killed him, it's the most obvious option.

Wrex was going to kill Shepard because he wanted to destroy the cure not because he was whining. Hell Wrex technically was the one whining lol. 

[Made Nightwing]

Xilizhra wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Xilizhra. You probably should. To quote Malcolm Reynolds: "If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back."

I'm not Malcolm Reynolds.

So you're saying that if someone tried to kill you, you wouldn't try to kill them before they could do it?

Well, so far as I can tell, every time I enter a room, the enemy shoots at me before I can shoot at them. So apparently not.

And what about the batarian gunship on Omega? The krogan 'ambassador' on Mordin's loyalty mission? Do you choose to kill in order to protect your own life? Mass Effect is filled with choices like that.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. You're judging Wrex by human standards. A human might not have killed Shepard in anger. But if Wrex was angry enough and felt that Shepard was a whining little worm, then he would have killed him, it's the most obvious option.

Wrex was going to kill Shepard because he wanted to destroy the cure not because he was whining. Hell Wrex technically was the one whining lol. 

And hilarious enough there's no damn cure to destroy. There's no cure period. Saren was just cloning people. Wrex pretty much died for no damn reason.

if only Shep could at least *offer* to give Wrex some of the "cure". It's not like paragon Shepard doesn't come up with some pretty dumb ideas.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 12:56 .

[Made Nightwing]

Ryzaki wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. You're judging Wrex by human standards. A human might not have killed Shepard in anger. But if Wrex was angry enough and felt that Shepard was a whining little worm, then he would have killed him, it's the most obvious option.

And that's judging him just because of his race.

Where is he insunating that Shep's a whining little worm or that killing Shep is the obvious solution?

BlueMagitek wrote...
Well, Shep *would*.  He's not Zaeed or Kai Leng; no killing a Krogan in a knife fight for him.  
Seriously
though, not only does it remove the blood from Shepard's hands, but it
takes the risk out of just allowing Shepard to try and wrestle a gun
from a Krogan.

I think it's more like:

Shepard:  Wrex,
listen, I only have four party members.  If you leave the party, I only
have three.  Up ahead, my fellow Alliance marines are going to split up.
 That leaves me to take on Saren with Tali.
Wrex:  *huff* Fiiiiiiine.
Tali:  I'm standing right here!

It's more racist to judge Wrex by our standards, then by a krogans (going by what Legion says). If I'm a krogan, I'm being told that I can't retrieve the cure for my people by a person that I don't respect, is inferior to me, and is standing in my way. I'm angry, I have a gun in my hands, and he's pointing one at me. Instant justification.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

@Ryzaki. You're judging Wrex by human standards. A human might not have killed Shepard in anger. But if Wrex was angry enough and felt that Shepard was a whining little worm, then he would have killed him, it's the most obvious option.

Wrex was going to kill Shepard because he wanted to destroy the cure not because he was whining. Hell Wrex technically was the one whining lol. 

And hilarious enough there's no damn cure to destroy. There's no cure period. Saren was just cloning people. Wrex pretty much died for no damn reason.

if only Shep could at least *offer* to give Shep some of the cure. It's not like paragon Shepard doesn't come up with some pretty dumb ideas.

Wrex is known to get very very agressive and irrational when it comes to protecting his people. On Sur'Kesh Wrex is ready to take on a Salarian base to get the Krogan females. Only Shepard is able to calm him down just like last time. 

Shepard could have offered the cure but didn't. Blame Bioware for not giving us the choice.

[BlueMagitek]

Ryzaki wrote...

And hilarious enough there's no damn cure to destroy. There's no cure period. Saren was just cloning people. Wrex pretty much died for no damn reason.

if only Shep could at least *offer* to give Shep some of the cure. It's not like paragon Shepard doesn't come up with some pretty dumb ideas.

Well, yeah, that just kind of happens sometimes.  I mean, it isn't like the team knows that ahead of time and are just keeping Wrex out of the loop.  For all they know it's a legit cure that puts the ol' quad to double it's pre-Genophage effectiveness.

I think there initially was going to be an option to try and find the cure, but it was cut out.  I mean, it isn't like it's just Shepard's team, the STG (inflictors of the genophage) are right there; I doubt they'd appreciate Shepard taking his sweet time to find a way to reverse the thing they're so proud of.