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[1136342t54_]

slimgrin wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She is xenophobic, not racist.

Being wary of other species/cultures doesn't make you xenophobic; xenophobic is an unreasonable fear, there are a number of reasons not to be enamored by alien cultures.

Why do people stick up for her on this? She's clearly the most wary of aliens than any other teammate you have. That is the point of her character. Jesus, it's not that complicated. Bioware basically spelled it out, and now everyone wants to make her out like she's a politically correct little angel, the girl next door. She isn't.

Its not really sticking up for her since she isn't politically correct and has some prejudices. Ashley is far more nationalist than she is xenophobic and she actually believes her views aren't entirely racist but that races will always think of their species as being more important. That is not xenophobia but racism and a form of nationalism to a certain extent.

For example an American is likely to be more loyal to their own country than they are to France. The only differences now is that in ME a government is mostly identified by its species since every race has their individual government. In this case it is more of a mixture of Nationalism and racism.  While she doesn't really hate or is afraid of other races Ashley sees her species as generally more important than others. 

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 29 janvier 2012 - 02:07 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
When you said that Krogan should share some Human attributes I was mostly responding to that since Humans can differe also. Not all humans would react in a similar way to that situation. Hell some would probably act exactly like Wrex.

Yes that is very very true.

Like Shepard. You do not want to tell Shepard what he can or can't do. Not unless you happen to be Aria, Anderson or TIM (and I think the latter is getting a bullet soon.) 

Depending on the Shepard you are quite likely to get pistol whipped for trying. 

[Made Nightwing]

Ash doesn't see her species as more important than others. She sees her species as more important to HER than others, and assumes that other species will always feel the same way about theirs. An assumption, yes, but not an unreasonable one, and certainly not a racist one.

[1136342t54_]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Ash doesn't see her species as more important than others. She sees her species as more important to HER than others, and assumes that other species will always feel the same way about theirs. An assumption, yes, but not an unreasonable one, and certainly not a racist one.

Meh typo. Still that isn't a horrible opinion to have. While in a way she is correct the Citadel races are still more likely to try and help each other due to them actually being able to coexist for over a thousand years.

[slimgrin]

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:14 .

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
When you said that Krogan should share some Human attributes I was mostly responding to that since Humans can differe also. Not all humans would react in a similar way to that situation. Hell some would probably act exactly like Wrex.

Yes that is very very true.

Like Shepard. You do not want to tell Shepard what he can or can't do. Not unless you happen to be Aria, Anderson or TIM (and I think the latter is getting a bullet soon.) 

Depending on the Shepard you are quite likely to get pistol whipped for trying. 

Oh Archer.

You know you've screwed up when the paragon reaction is to beat the crap out of you.

[1136342t54_]

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

Ashley doesn't display irrational fear of an aliens attempting to destroy humanity. Actually that isn't really irrational since that could have happened multiple times. No Ashley states that members of alien species will always be more important to them than humans. Its not that difficult to understand. If your a human you are likely to pick the human race over an alien species. 

[slimgrin]

jreezy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances.

Not really.

Explain.

[Made Nightwing]

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

In real life? Man, I would AGREE with her in real life. Hell yeah, we should be concerned about putting our trust in a barely stable three man dictatorship over the rest of the galaxy.

[Ryzaki]

Made Nightwing wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

In real life? Man, I would AGREE with her in real life. Hell yeah, we should be concerned about putting our trust in a barely stable three man dictatorship over the rest of the galaxy.

Same.

But I freely admit to being very judgemental. I'm not PC.

If I was Shep though I would've thrown her ass off the ship as soon as Anderson put me in command.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:25 .

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

Wait.

Ashley judging that the Council is interested in its own security rather than its associates, in light of nearly two millenia of Council history of favoring their own interests over those of the Associates when the going got tough...

...is irrational?


Basic pattern recognition of government policy is not racial discrimination.

[slimgrin]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

Wait.

Ashley judging that the Council is interested in its own security rather than its associates, in light of nearly two millenia of Council history of favoring their own interests over those of the Associates when the going got tough...

...is irrational?


Basic pattern recognition of government policy is not racial discrimination.

Woah...I'm just basing this off the fact she says she doesn't trust aliens. Her words. Paterns of governent policy notwithstanding..or whatever.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[OrdinaryTenant]

I think the idea here is that not trusting aliens (especially the particular ones on the Normandy) is not unreasonable.

At least that's where I stand.

Modifié par OrdinaryTenant, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:37 .

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

Wait.

Ashley judging that the Council is interested in its own security rather than its associates, in light of nearly two millenia of Council history of favoring their own interests over those of the Associates when the going got tough...

...is irrational?


Basic pattern recognition of government policy is not racial discrimination.

Woah...I'm just basing this off the fact she says she doesn't trust aliens. Her words.

She doesn't trust alien governments to conduct policy that wouldn't abandon Humanity if it came to it. She doesn't like alien foreign nationals having free access around top-secret technology for security reasons that apply to all non-cleared personnel who would consititute a security threat.

Her context of discussion.

[The dead fish]

slimgrin wrote...

jreezy wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances.

Not really.

Explain.

Because she isn't irrational. You lost any credibility there, Ashley is everything but irrational.

Also, It seems you didn't listen what she said to Tali. " She said that many humans blamed the quarians because of Geth, and She is sorry for that, she disagrees and hopes minds among her species will change about Quarians. That is to be  xenophobic ? If you want to hear the sentence yourself. Go into an elevator with Tali and ashley in M1.

 Ash does not have irrational fears about aliens ! she is not afraid that humanity will lose itself by integrating into the council nor does she say that humanity should go it alone and screw the rest of the alien races,nor does she believe that humans are superior.

Ash has a cynical view that a lot people tend to have even in today's society. She believes that the Council will always do whats best for itself and if the Alliance ever needs there help in a dire situation the Council will not come to the rescue. That's not a racist view or a xenophobic view its the view of a patriotic soldier who wants whats best for her people. It's not as if the the Council and the Alliance were buddy buddy anyway they had numerous issues with one  another at any moment a war could have broken out over any number of things.

Her dog and the bear analogy simply says that if the Council is the owner humanity is the dog and a great threat against the galaxy is the Bear. The owner in a bid to survive will let the dog loose to fight the bear while they run away from danger. Not because of racism but because humanity is not their own. It is not racism to care about your own people over others. It's not as if the Council doesn't have a history of doing this in the first place they used the Krogan to wipe out the Rachni they used the Turians to decimate the Krogan and when the Geth invaded the Attican Traverse they used the Alliance to shield them from the Geth.

Also, they didn't give a damn about Quarians.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:42 .

[Ryzaki]

Agreed but I fail to see why the council should care about the Quarians or humanity. (Same for the reverse really). Each race should be ideally self sufficent and self reliant enough not to need the others to protect them unless it's a threat on Rachni/Reaper/Krogan scale.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:42 .

[slimgrin]

Some memories need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:43 .

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

Some memoriesd need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

Besides the mannerisms, beliefs, policies, and style, sure.

She also sounds like Obama.

[slimgrin]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Some memoriesd need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

Besides the mannerisms, beliefs, policies, and style, sure.

She also sounds like Obama.

Lol. All I can do is laugh at your inabiltiy to get what Bioware was refering to.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:45 .

[Ryzaki]

I'm just amused at how almost everything she says can apply to how the alliance treated the colonies in the traverse. 

I really hope Shep's not forced to be all "Yes I support the alliance fully." come ME3.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:46 .

[The dead fish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Agreed but I fail to see why the council should care about the Quarians or humanity. (Same for the reverse really). Each race should be ideally self sufficent and self reliant enough not to need the others to protect them unless it's a threat on Rachni/Reaper/Krogan scale.

Quarians were councilian member, were in  the council space when the geth war began. they left the quarians to be killed per billion, they turned their back without looking behind, expelled them from council space while they were already suffering ( just... wow ), and after the war, left them to their misery for centuries and treated them like thieves. It's disgusting.

And it totally reinforces the view of Ashley. The dominant races are first interested by themselves and their interest like any other species, and it is better for humanity to be careful. That is the point of Ashley when she distrusts aliens. Humanity could suffer the same fate.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:49 .

[JosephDucreux]

slimgrin wrote...

Some memories need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

No she doesn't. There's no mention of Osama or oil in here.

Nope, doesn't sound like Bushie.

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Some memoriesd need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

Besides the mannerisms, beliefs, policies, and style, sure.

She also sounds like Obama.

Lol. All I can do is laugh at your inabiltiy to get what Bioware was refering to.

You can laugh at many things. One day you might laugh at your own misunderstanding.

George W. Bush was renowned as a uniltareralist, but that's not what Ashley has advocated. Ashley has advocated self-sufficiency. The distinction is relative ability and intent towards others.

George W. Bush led a hegemonistic superpower. Ashley's Alliance is not. Unilateralism from a hyper-power to enforce the world order it established is very different from independent relations from a modest great power.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:52 .