498 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Not only did he bring politics, he ineptly brought in politics.

Might as well have brought in Godwin while he was at it.

[Ryzaki]

Sylvianus wrote...

Quarians were councilian member, were in  the council space when the geth war began. they left the quarians to be killed per billion, they turned their back without looking behind, expelled them from council space while they were already suffering ( just... wow ), and after the war, left them to their misery for centuries and treated them like thieves. It's disgusting.

And it totally reinforces the view of Ashley. The dominant races are first interested by themselves and their interest like any other species, and it is better for humanity to be careful. That is the point of Ashley when she distrusts aliens. Humanity could suffer the same fate.

who broke council law by creating a dangerous race of AIs. Let's not forget that part! Why the hell would I waste my soldiers on cleaning up your mess. I wouldn't do it either. Yes yes I'm going to send my people to die because of a mess you created that wasn't remotely necessary. B**** please. I would've laughed whatever Quarian was asking for help out the room. Until the geth attack someone who is not a member of the race that tried to destroy them all (which happens 300 years later) I don't give a damn.

I would've left them to die to. They were forewarned about the dangerous of AI technology but they went ahead and made it anyway. And then instead of owning up to their actions they decided to destroy the life they created. I would've treated them to their misery and treated them like thieves (especially considering they dump their prisoners off their ships so they can committ more crimes). The Quarians are not lilly white victims in this scenario. Did they get far harsher treatement than they deserved? Yep. But most of it was their own doing.

And yeah Ash's view is very sensible. Every race and gov't will do horrible things to protect themselves.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:56 .

[Dean_the_Young]

You're insane.

There was no conspiracy to break the rules: even the Quarians were taken by surprise. They didn't even understand that the Geth had achieved actual sentience at the time: they saw their attempt as an abortion of something going to happen, not the destruction of something already existing.The Quarians never intentionally broke the Council Law, and when they did realize what they did they certainly tried to rectify it. Which would be the exact same owning up to your actions you just criticized them for not doing.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 janvier 2012 - 02:57 .

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're insane.

There was no conspiracy to break the rules: even the Quarians were taken by surprise.The Quarians never intentionally broke the Council Law, and when they did realize what they did they certainly tried to rectify it. Which would be the exact same owning up to your actions you just criticized them for not doing.

Insane? Really? I'm insane?

The Quarians had to know they were getting dangerously close to AI technology. They are not idiots. And if they are idiots they deserved their fate for screwing around with things they shouldn't have been screwing with and then having the audacity to try to destroy it when it gained sentinence.

No owning up to their actions by not killing the race of now sentinent beings they created. That's genocide. Genocide is not an acceptable way to own your actions. It's trying to cover them up and pretend they didn't happen. Especially when said sentinent beings weren't hostile.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:01 .

[ObserverStatus]

*didn't post any political statements here*

Modifié par bobobo878, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:28 .

[slimgrin]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Some memories need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

Really? You just HAD to bring politics into this. Completely unnecessary.

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

BTW, Bioware brought the politics in before me, and bless them for it.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:00 .

[PrinceLionheart]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Not only did he bring politics, he ineptly brought in politics.

Might as well have brought in Godwin while he was at it.

Only ****s use arguments like that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

You're insane.

There was no conspiracy to break the rules: even the Quarians were taken by surprise.The Quarians never intentionally broke the Council Law, and when they did realize what they did they certainly tried to rectify it. Which would be the exact same owning up to your actions you just criticized them for not doing.

Insane? Really? I'm insane?

On this topic, you certainly are.

The Quarians had to know they were getting dangerously close to AI technology. They are not idiots.

The believed they were close only after they had actually passed it. These things happen when you start creating things more complex than you.

And if they are idiots they deserved their fate.

Hence your insanity.

No owning up to their actions by not killing the race of now sentinent beings they created.

The Quarians didn't realize the Geth had all become sentient. The Quarians believed they were going to prevent that from happening.

Which is exactly what you were lambasting them for not doing.

That's genocide. Genocide is not an acceptable way to own your actions. It's trying to cover them up.

The premise of conducting genocide, however, depends on the recognition that the subject in question is alive.

[nitefyre410]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

She's Xenophobic, look up the definition; her fears are indeed irrational given her circumstances. Sorry to burst bubbles here, but Bioware shouldn't be in the business of making every character a pal we can hang with. Sorry guys. like in real life, you may just have to disagree with her.

Wait.

Ashley judging that the Council is interested in its own security rather than its associates, in light of nearly two millenia of Council history of favoring their own interests over those of the Associates when the going got tough...

...is irrational?


Basic pattern recognition of government policy is not racial discrimination.

Woah...I'm just basing this off the fact she says she doesn't trust aliens. Her words.

She doesn't trust alien governments to conduct policy that wouldn't abandon Humanity if it came to it. She doesn't like alien foreign nationals having free access around top-secret technology for security reasons that apply to all non-cleared personnel who would consititute a security threat.

Her context of discussion.

 


Thank you Dean for saying what everyone has been saying for the longest time ... anyone with  a ounce of reasonable sense knows that is EXACTLY what she talking about and  Bioware fubar'd that whole thing with bear anology.

yet still 5 years later we are still one this  whole  Ashley is Xenophobic  train. 

[Ryzaki]

@Dean: Right if you're going to call me insane I'm going to end this discussion here because it will obviously go nowhere. Silly personal attacks aren't at all releveant and I'm pretty bummed you'd lower yourself to typical BSN attitude.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:02 .

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

Neither, since Ashley's views don't fit the American political spectrum of conservative or liberal.

BTW, Bioware brought the politics in before me, and bless them for it.

You, however, brought in entirely unrelated politics for not applicable reason.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Dean: Right if you're going to call me insane I'm going to end this discussion here because it will obviously go nowhere.

Sure. Try not to do it again.

[Ryzaki]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Not only did he bring politics, he ineptly brought in politics.

Might as well have brought in Godwin while he was at it.

Only ****s use arguments like that.

Everytime Godwin's invoked a kitten dies.

Please save the kittens!

[Ryzaki]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Dean: Right if you're going to call me insane I'm going to end this discussion here because it will obviously go nowhere.

Sure. Try not to do it again.

?

...you know what? Forget it. How silly of me to even respond to you. I'll remember not to do it again.

[slimgrin]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

Who the f*ck cares? It isn't relevant, and it's clearly an attempt to paint her in a bad light (seeing how the Bushes are viewed in a bad light by many) without actually showing any objective proof of her being "bad."

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Not only did he bring politics, he ineptly brought in politics.

Might as well have brought in Godwin while he was at it.

Only ****s use arguments like that.

Everytime Godwin's invoked a kitten dies.

Please save the kittens!

Maybe one more should be called for...

[Dean_the_Young]

Ryzaki wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

@Dean: Right if you're going to call me insane I'm going to end this discussion here because it will obviously go nowhere.

Sure. Try not to do it again.

?

...you know what? Forget it. How silly of me to even respond to you. I'll remember not to do it again.

Probably won't.

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

Bioware did not cast Ashely in the light of an American political chariacture alignment.

Bioware isn't even an American company.

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

Who the f*ck cares? It isn't relevant, and it's clearly an attempt to paint her in a bad light (seeing how the Bushes are viewed in a bad light by many) without actually showing any objective proof of her being "bad."

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

Those political beliefs are more on the line of "People will sacrifice you if it helps them." which can really be applied to any political group including the alliance.

[ObserverStatus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

Bioware did not cast Ashely in the light of an American political chariacture alignment.
Bioware isn't even an American company.

Off topic, but where can I find that one thought experiment you wrote where Samara almost kills Joker?

[slimgrin]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

Bioware did not cast Ashely in the light of an American political chariacture alignment.

Bioware isn't even an American company.

Really? Proof? Are you even from America? Do you have any idea how much Ashleys' view represents an American view of outsiders?

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

If Ashley's beliefs are primarily about alien governments and political groups, then why does she mention Wrex? Who is an independent mercenary and not part of any government at all.

Also, it's funny how in the same conversation she mentions "Counil races". No, Ashley, Wrex is not a member of a Council race.

Modifié par Shifty-looking Chicken, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:11 .

[The dead fish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Quarians were councilian member, were in  the council space when the geth war began. they left the quarians to be killed per billion, they turned their back without looking behind, expelled them from council space while they were already suffering ( just... wow ), and after the war, left them to their misery for centuries and treated them like thieves. It's disgusting.

And it totally reinforces the view of Ashley. The dominant races are first interested by themselves and their interest like any other species, and it is better for humanity to be careful. That is the point of Ashley when she distrusts aliens. Humanity could suffer the same fate.

who broke council law by creating a dangerous race of AIs. Let's not forget that part! Why the hell would I waste my soldiers on cleaning up your mess. I wouldn't do it either. Yes yes I'm going to send my people to die because of a mess you created that wasn't remotely necessary. B**** please. I would've laughed whatever Quarian was asking for help out the room. Until the geth attack someone who is not a member of the race that tried to destroy them all (which happens 300 years later) I don't give a damn.

I would've left them to die to. They were forewarned about the dangerous of AI technology but they went ahead and made it anyway. And then instead of owning up to their actions they decided to destroy the life they created. I would've treated them to their misery and treated them like thieves (especially considering they dump their prisoners off their ships so they can committ more crimes). The Quarians are not lilly white victims in this scenario. Did they get far harsher treatement than they deserved? Yep. But most of it was their own doing.

And yeah Ash's view is very sensible. Every race and gov't will do horrible things to protect themselves.

No, they did not break the council law. they have developed something basic in the beginning, they were at limits of the law, but they never crossed the line. Each update and change was too minor, and considered in the laws. They  made a mistake, and Geth grew more than expected until to become independent.

Any race can make mistakes like that, with the current level of science, not just with research on artificial intelligence. But whatever, since they paid, and paid hard.

on top of that, Quarians were ostracized, and the total extinction of a species has been encouraged by the lack of moral, material and ethics help. They could help them after the war at least. Help to find a new homeworld, or or energy resources, or settle on colonies

No, the worst is that, quarians are hunted like lice in any area of councilian space and even outside when there is conflict of interest. If they try to establish on sustainable world, The Citadel send some ships to remind them that they are not welcome.

I don't care about Quarian, I am not pro- quarian, but I have no respect for this politics lol. That's just weak.

Yes, Ashley 's right about the council. She's pragmatic and isn't naive.

The council claims to extend its dominance to protect peace and give cohesion Galactic ? lol.  If it does not care about the interests of its members in its space, it means they have just established their domination and hide behind false ideals.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .