498 réponses à ce sujet

[OrdinaryTenant]

slimgrin wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

Bioware did not cast Ashely in the light of an American political chariacture alignment.

Bioware isn't even an American company.

Really? Proof? Are you even from America? Do you have any idea how much Ashleys' view represents an American view of outsiders?

I can help, here's Bioware's Contact page from their website: http://www.bioware.com/contact.  They are based out of Edmonton, Canada. 

[Ryzaki]

Sylvianus wrote...
No, they did not break the council law. they have developed something basic in the beginning, they were at limits of the law, but they never crossed the line. Each update and change was too minor, and considered in the laws. They  made a mistake, and Geth grew more than expecteduntil to become independent.

Any race can make mistakes like that, with the current level of science, not just with research on artificial intelligence. But whatever, since they paid, and paid hard.

on top of that, Quarians were ostracized, and the total extinction of a species has been encouraged by the lack of moral, material and ethics help. They could help them after the war at least. Help to find a new homeworld, or or energy resources, or settle on colonies.

They could've. But I see why they didn't. The Quarians made a mistake, paid for it and when they were on their ships were more of a liability. Supposedly council races are supposed to be self reliant it's jerkish but oh so realistic that the council would do that. It's a "not my problem." scenario. And frankly it wasn't the council's problem. I'm pretty sure the Quarians got the boot the second they lost their planet because their usefulness severely diminished.

Plus with the geth taking their planet and colonies didn't the quarians lose many of their resources? The Council not wanting to take on that burden to me makes sense. It's a d*** move but it's not overly unrealistic and not that different than what happens on Earth when some crazies get out of hand and start mass slaughtering people and the countries get just their citizens out and let the civilians of the other country kill each other and be slaughtered.

No, the worse, quarians are hunted like lice in any area of space councilian and even outside when there is conflict of interest. If they try to establish on sustainable world, Citadel sent some ships to remind them that they are not welcome.

I don't care about Quarian, I am not pro- quarian, but I have no respect for this politics lol. That's just weak.

Yes, Ashley 's right about the council. She's pragmatic and isn't naive.

The council claims to extend its dominance to protect peace and give cohesion Galactic ? lol.  If it does not care about the interests of its members in its space, it means they have just established their domination.

Cruel but not unrealistic. And where was the world? Was it in council space? 

I have no respect for politicans period. They're all grimy. Alliance, Cerberus, Council, Hierarchy, Quarian, Krogan, Asari, Salarians, whatever (though at least the Krogan are mostly blunt it's a point in their favor). If they're not grimy now just give it a few years. Soon enough they'll be as dirty as the rest. <_<

Nope they care about themselves and the protection of their people. Humans would do the same (or something eeriely similar) in their position.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:21 .

[slimgrin]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

Who the f*ck cares? It isn't relevant, and it's clearly an attempt to paint her in a bad light (seeing how the Bushes are viewed in a bad light by many) without actually showing any objective proof of her being "bad."

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

You know, it's disappointing debating with people who don't know how. Protip: If you're attacking the person instead of talking about the issue, you need to study up.


We aren't talking about American politics in this thread. Thus, referencing an American politician was uncalled for. Not only that, but considering the general consensus on Bush, the reference was only made to muddy the issue. That's the problem with bringing it up.

Ashley is a conservative by any measurable standard, American or otherwise. My criticism lies with those who want to make her...god I hate to use this term: a mary sue. Sweet little Ashley, who has done nothing wrong, neither racist or xenophobic, or anything else that may sully her image. My ass. This is not the character Bioware created, and everyone seems to be railing against it. She's opinionated, proud, and stubborn.

Modifié par slimgrin, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:20 .

[Complistic]

uhhh no. I think most of her fans like her because of her faults.

[PrinceLionheart]

Shifty-looking Chicken wrote...

If Ashley's beliefs are primarily about alien governments and political groups, then why does she mention Wrex? Who is an independent mercenary and not part of any government at all.

Also, it's funny how in the same conversation she mentions "Counil races". No, Ashley, Wrex is not a member of a Council race.

Consider Krogans aren't trusted by, well, anyone it makes complete sense.

[PrinceLionheart]

slimgrin wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

Who the f*ck cares? It isn't relevant, and it's clearly an attempt to paint her in a bad light (seeing how the Bushes are viewed in a bad light by many) without actually showing any objective proof of her being "bad."

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

You know, it's disappointing debating with people who don't know how. Protip: If you're attacking the person instead of talking about the issue, you need to study up.


We aren't talking about American politics in this thread. Thus, referencing an American politician was uncalled for. Not only that, but considering the general consensus on Bush, the reference was only made to muddy the issue. That's the problem with bringing it up.

Ashley is a conservative by any measurable standard, American or otherwise. My criticism lies with those who want to make her...god I hate to use this term: a mary sue. Sweet little Ashley, who has done nothing wrong, neither racist or xenophobic, or anything else that may sully her image. My ass. This is not the character Bioware created, and everyone seems to be railing against it. She's opinionated, proud, and stubborn.

So you've gone from calling her a Xenophobe, to a conservative, to accusing people of defending her of making her a mary sue. All in a single post at that.

Pro tip, using ad hominems doesn't make your argument any more convincing, especially since you've evaded backing up any of your claims.

[Dean_the_Young]

[quote]slimgrin wrote...

Ashley is a conservative by any measurable standard, American or otherwise. [/quote]No, she isn't. Her one political position of note is not a decidedly Conservative one.

Not that 'Conservative' has any universal definition. An American conservative is different from an Afghan conservative is different from a European conservative is different from a South American conservative.

[quote]
My criticism lies with those who want to make her...god I hate to use this term: a mary sue. Sweet little Ashley, who has done nothing wrong, neither racist or xenophobic, or anything else that may sully her image. My ass. [/quote]Your ass indeed, since that's not what people are doing.


[quote]
This is not the character Bioware created, and everyone seems to be railing against it. She's opinionated, proud, and stubborn.[/quote]Her opinions, however, are neither racist nor particularly xenophobic in nature.

[/quote]

[Ryzaki]

slimgrin wrote...

Ashley is a conservative by any measurable standard, American or otherwise. My criticism lies with those who want to make her...god I hate to use this term: a mary sue. Sweet little Ashley, who has done nothing wrong, neither racist or xenophobic, or anything else that may sully her image. My ass. This is not the character Bioware created, and everyone seems to be railing against it.

:lol::lol:

I haven't seen anyone in this thread (and if I missed someone please point them out) try to infer that Ash is perfect and right in everything she does.

If you see that person please point them out. I could use a laugh.

[OrdinaryTenant]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No, she isn't. Her one political position of note is not a decidedly Conservative one.

May I ask what you're refering to here?  I honestly don't recall this.

[slimgrin]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Does Ashley sound more like a conservative or liberal to you?

Who the f*ck cares? It isn't relevant, and it's clearly an attempt to paint her in a bad light (seeing how the Bushes are viewed in a bad light by many) without actually showing any objective proof of her being "bad."

Bioware cares. They made her opinionated and to hold a stance on political beliefs. Is that threatning to you? Can you not handle them creating a character you might not agree with?

You know, it's disappointing debating with people who don't know how. Protip: If you're attacking the person instead of talking about the issue, you need to study up.


We aren't talking about American politics in this thread. Thus, referencing an American politician was uncalled for. Not only that, but considering the general consensus on Bush, the reference was only made to muddy the issue. That's the problem with bringing it up.

Ashley is a conservative by any measurable standard, American or otherwise. My criticism lies with those who want to make her...god I hate to use this term: a mary sue. Sweet little Ashley, who has done nothing wrong, neither racist or xenophobic, or anything else that may sully her image. My ass. This is not the character Bioware created, and everyone seems to be railing against it. She's opinionated, proud, and stubborn.

So you've gone from calling her a Xenophobe, to a conservative, to accusing people of defending her of making her a mary sue. All in a single post at that.

Pro tip, using ad hominems doesn't make your argument any more convincing, especially since you've evaded backing up any of your claims.

The video I posted backed up my claims. You miss that? And Conservatives tend to be xenophobic.

[Dean_the_Young]

slimgrin wrote...

Really? Proof?

Bioware is based in Canada, according to their own offices.

Are you even from America?

Irrelevant, and given American education that might actually be a negative.

Do you have any idea how much Ashleys' view represents an American view of outsiders?

Ashley's views represents the Western European cultural view of outsiders in a military environment, if not a universal nativist tone. Ashley's politics are traditional nativist-nationalism of a sort that's been around for hundreds of years across the globe.

Identity politics and 'don't rely on the outsider' predate Americans by thousands of years.

[Ryzaki]

Complistic wrote...

uhhh no. I think most of her fans like her because of her faults.

One would assume so. Or at least accept them as part of her character.

[Iakus]

slimgrin wrote...

Some memories need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

???

All she's saying is if push came to shove, the Council races will look to protect themselves first.  Humanity should be ready to stand on their own if that ever happened.  It's independance and self reliance she advocates.  Not racism.

That bear and the dog analogy?  The hunter is the Council, humanity is the dog, the bear is some threat to them all.

the Destiny Ascension situation at the end  is a repeat of that analogy:.  

Fifth Fleet:  Hunter
Destiny Ascension:  Dog
Geth:  Bear.

While we're quoting from the game:

www.youtube.com/watch

3:45 "I don't think humans have some kind of divine mandate, if that's what you mean.  I don't think we're superior"

Modifié par iakus, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:37 .

[Ryzaki]

There's no link iakus

[1136342t54_]

iakus wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Some memories need to be refreshed. She sounds like G. W. Bush in this clip. 

???

All she's saying is if push came to shove, the Council races will look to protect themselves first.  Humanity should be ready to stand on their own if that ever happened.  It's independance and self reliance she advocates.  Not racism.

That bear and the dog analogy?  The hunter is the Council, humanity is the dog, the bear is some threat to them all.

the Destiny Ascension situation at the end  is a repeat of that analogy:.  

Fifth Fleet:  Hunter
Destiny Ascension:  Dog
Geth:  Bear.

While we're quoting from the game:

www.youtube.com/watch

3:45 "I don't think humans have some kind of divine mandate, if that's what you mean.  I don't think we're superior"

While in a way I do agree with Ash I would like to say that a woman did fight off a bear to save her dog.  While an outlier unlikely to ever happen again succesfully it would still be funny as hell to bring up in that conversation.

[Dean_the_Young]

OrdinaryTenant wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No, she isn't. Her one political position of note is not a decidedly Conservative one.

May I ask what you're refering to here?  I honestly don't recall this.

Ashley's only political position of note is her Alliance nationalism which, by the nature of the xeno-nationalist Council system, is intwined with Humanity as a group. Ashley believes that the Alliance should be able to be self-reliant others, in case things go bad, though she's not against cooperation.

And... that's it. That's not a particularly conservative or liberal position. You can have liberal defense hawks and conservative peaceniks.


Ashley is not a religious conservative by the American political spectrum: she's simply religious.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
While in a way I do agree with Ash I would like to say that a woman did fight off a bear to save her dog.  While an outlier unlikely to ever happen again succesfully it would still be funny as hell to bring up in that conversation.

That's awesome and hilarious.

Some people really love their dogs.

Still I suppose it's unheard off for the dog and human to attack the bear together eh? I mean running from the bear isn't really going to get you far.  Not unless you have a car nearby. Heck I heard it was a *bad* idea to try to run away. You'll just die on your face that way.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:38 .

[The dead fish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Therefore it is clever to not trust the alien council and thinking first about your species's interests isn't wrong in this context where everyone is selfish.

That's why the charges against human aggression and audacity are without merit. Humans use only major assets in a context of competition already present and already rude. Salarians, Turians, Asari, just don't like a new efficient competitor, which could compete with their power, to challenge their domination. :innocent:

And there are two examples. Generally quarians are not welcome in the concilian space.

And the specific example, was outside the councilian space. Elcors were also interested by the same planet, so the citadel threatened the quarians, even if the territory was not in their space.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 29 janvier 2012 - 03:42 .

[Iakus]

Ryzaki wrote...

There's no link iakus

I have no idea what you're talking about 

[slimgrin]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...


Definitions are different not only in respect to place, but also era. 100 years ago in America today's "conservative" might have been called a liberal. So considering we're jumping 150+ years into the future, tacking on a label like that means even less.

You think the writers aren't influenced by the politics of today?

[Ryzaki]

Sylvianus wrote...

Therefore it is clever to not trust the alien council and thinking first about your species's interest isn't wrong in this context where everyone is selfish.

That's why the charges against human aggression and audacity are without merit. Humans use only major assets in a context of competition already present and already rude. Salarians, Turians, Asari, just don't like a new efficient competitor, which could compete with their power, to challenge their domination. :innocent:

And there are two examples. Generally quarians are not welcome in the concilian space.

And the specific example, was outside the councilian space. Elcors were also interested by the same planet, so the citadel threatened the quarians, even if the territory was not in their space.

True enough.

lol hey it's not like we'd do any differently.

Ah that makes sense. 2nd time they were trying to take potential resources before someone that probably had more valuable resources for the council so the council decided to be a douche and strong arm them and the first time the Council didn't want them in their space. Dickish but understandable.