498 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

ReallyRue wrote...

I agree about the 'jealous of Liara' thing. She seems harsher on Liara/asari when you play as a male than when you play as a female. In fact, other than the "I don't trust Vakarian and Wrex fiddling with an Alliance ship" thing, I can't remember many instances of her being xenophobic. Oh, and the "can't tell the animals from the aliens thing", though that seems more ignorance than anything.

I would be jealous of any race could still look attractive at 100 and have an array of biotic powers without those migrane inducing biotic implants. So I can see why she feels that way. Besides Liara is competition. Also she's the daughter of Benezia (a well known traitor). But after Benezia dies, Ashley is a lot less hostile towards Liara. She even feels sorry for Liara.

Ashley's sentiment's are the sentiments of every species. The Turians are fearful of every species, same with the Volus and I bet even the somewhat gentle Elcor have some imbedded xenophobia. Why? Because there are a bunch of different species competeting in what now seems like a small galaxy.

Besides humans get the worst of the xenophobia after the events of Mass Effect 1. The human's either become the next super race ( like Turians, Salarians, Asari) or they become the only race representated by the council. Everyone is fearful of humanity in Mass Effect 2. Or as one Turian puts it "All you humans are racist."

So while I don't justify Ashley's remarks in Mass Effect 1, they are out of ignorance and the simple fact that her grand parents surrendered to aliens. She lives in an environment where hostility towards aliens is normal. She knows no better because she has been brought up on xenophobic values. She can be pursuaded otherwise. For that reason she cannot be placed in the same category as hardline racists who go around killing black people (they do exist).

Here is a video that enlightened me about racism. http://www.youtube.c...deo-mustangbase

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:15 .

[Collider]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

Racism is

1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...

2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

Making fun of somebody out of ignorance isn't racism.

If you're calling a black guy a n***er "Just to make fun of him", it's still racist.

Or ignorant

But she hasn't done anything to discriminate nor has she shown any hatred. Nor does she treat aliens like her own race. Therefore she is not racist.

She makes some scathing remarks about Liara's race during the romance confrontation.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...
if garrus, kaidan, etc wouldve been in the same position they wouldve shot him too.

Really? Because Kaidan was standing right next to her and he didn't shoot. Heck I believe his reaction to her shooting is a "Holy hell!" (or something similar) Garrus wasn't that far away either and he didn't shoot.  (that mixed with my paragon Shep mentoring him and no I don't think Garrus would've shot Wrex until Wrex shot first). There was at least a dozen STG guys and they didn't shoot either. Probably because it wasn't their business. If only Ash had realized the same.

Wrex might've shot. But he's Wrex. I expect him to be insubordinate.

Yeah he wasn't standing next to her. I believe he was likely ready to fire (Shepard did tell them to be prepared) its just that Ashley fired first. Kaidan didn't know what was going on at first and asked "Did you just kill him chief?"

"Better him than the Commander."

"Yeah...I suppose." Not sure if Kaidan was paying much attention lol.

Plus Ashley actually doesn't kill Wrex in one playthrough if you don't recruit Garrus and Liara  but that is due to Wrex standing down earlier. When she does shoot him they are still pointing their guns at each other and she could have over heard the conversation through suit radio.

[What a Succulent Ass]

ReallyRue wrote...
I don't think she said 'yuck', did she? But I put that down to ignorance. She'd never been around aliens before, so the old prejudices are still there before there's time for her to overcome them.

She didn't. And it seemed to me that she was being sincere about it - as in, she couldn't tell which of the alien fauna was sapient by first sight. Ignorant, yes. Racist? Not so much.

[AgitatedLemon]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

Racism is

1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...

2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

Making fun of somebody out of ignorance isn't racism.

If you're calling a black guy a n***er "Just to make fun of him", it's still racist.

Or ignorant

But she hasn't done anything to discriminate nor has she shown any hatred. Nor does she treat aliens like her own race. Therefore she is not racist.

No, that isn't ignorance. That's flat racism.

Are you stupid or intentionally missing the point?

[Dave Exclamation Mark Yognaut]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

I've called a black person a monkey before. Does that mean im racist. That line gives the impression she's making fun of the alien she was talking about. That doesn't imply racism.

Congradulations, you have managed to be worse than the average BSN poster. Somehow.

[saMoorai]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

I find racism extremely sexy in a woman.

No way, me too!

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Yeah he wasn't standing next to her. I believe he was likely ready to fire (Shepard did tell them to be prepared) its just that Ashley fired first. Kaidan didn't know what was going on at first and asked "Did you just kill him chief?"

"Better him than the Commander."

"Yeah...I suppose." Not sure if Kaidan was paying much attention lol.

Plus Ashley actually doesn't kill Wrex in one playthrough if you don't recruit Garrus and Liara  but that is due to Wrex standing down earlier. When she does shoot him they are still pointing their guns at each other and she could have over heard the conversation through suit radio.

Uh yes he was. Look at where they're standing before Shep goes to talk to Wrex. They're right next to each other.

And I'm pretty sure Kaidan was paying attention.

And my point was Ash shoots Wrex if he doesn't stand down fast enough for her liking. No matter what Shep says or does that to me is her thinking she knows better and that would (if I could) have my Shepard throw her off his ship. As it is he leaves her on Virmire if she kills Wrex.

And why would she overhear the conversation through suit radio?

And no their guns are not pointed at each other Shep has put down his gun at that point (in my games) and is still trying to talk to Wrex when the gun shot happens.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:11 .

[Ghost Lightning]

saMOOrai182 wrote...

Ghost Lightning wrote...

I find racism extremely sexy in a woman.

No way, me too!

We're like twins!

[Badpie]

I think at worst Ashley is offensive to everyone because she's blunt, not because she's racist. Her comments to the non-human folks aren't worse than her comments to the human folks.

At worst, she's trying to get her head around some culture shock at first. Then there's some mild suspicion that can be smoothed over in a moment or two.

Also she's the only person in the whole game to every say anything against racism. She tells Tali that a lot of people blame the Quarians for the geth, but that hopefully having Tali with them with help people see.

She calls Terra Firma a pack of Jackals and slams them for being bigoted jerks.

In her bear/dog analogy the "human" = The Council and the "dog" = Humanity. And her comment "it's not racism, not really" is not in defense of her own words but in defense of the Council who she predicts will act not out of racism, but out of loyalty to their own people.

[CptData]

John Newton wrote...

This discussion is pointless I've played ME1 40 times now exactly, romanced Ash twice differently to see if there is any creedance to this "Ash is not a racist" arguement and there is none I'm sorry Ash supporters you can do all the reasoning you want it doesn't change the facts.

Lets pretend you're right ...
Renegade Shepard is a racist.
A lot of Turians s/he met are racists.
Some Asari were racists.
Batarians are racists (mostly).
You, Sir, you are a blight!

And it's kinda a fact: Ashley doesn't talk "political correctly". I'm fine with that, I really enjoy that. Know what? If Ash is an racist, then -everyone- is a racist. And yes, I mean it. No exception. Every ... Effing ... Human ... in ... this ... time ... and ... world ... is!

Modifié par CptData, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:09 .

[1136342t54_]

Collider wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

Racism is

1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...

2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

Making fun of somebody out of ignorance isn't racism.

If you're calling a black guy a n***er "Just to make fun of him", it's still racist.

Or ignorant

But she hasn't done anything to discriminate nor has she shown any hatred. Nor does she treat aliens like her own race. Therefore she is not racist.

She makes some scathing remarks about Liara's race during the romance confrontation.

Ashley says something about not being jealous of Liara since she isn't human. Doesn't mean she is really racist. Hell even right afterwards she feel sorry for her and explains the reason why she wanted to break Liara in half at that moment.

[Ryzaki]

D3MON-SOVER3IGN wrote...
Well he did tell Ashley to be ready. And i am done with this thread. RELEASING CONTROL

I believe that's optional and depends on alignment. I might be wrong though. The wiki says you can only have her shoot Wrex if Shep told her to be ready. (something a renegade would probably say).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:10 .

[LadyofRivendell]

In my opinion, Ashley is as racist as Kaidan is whiny.

I'll never understand why people sum up a character so quickly without really getting to know them.

[GMagnum]

aye i hav a dream dat 1 day my alien friend will nt b judged by da numbr of tentacle dey got but by da content of dey charactr tbh

[Badpie]

SAGEHONOR wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

SAGEHONOR wrote...

Racism is

1. The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as...

2. Prejudice or discrimination directed against someone of a different race based on such a belief.

Making fun of somebody out of ignorance isn't racism.

If you're calling a black guy a n***er "Just to make fun of him", it's still racist.

Or ignorant

It's not ignorance anymore if you're aware that it's wrong.  It's racist and offensive.

[Collider]

Doesn't mean she is really racist.

"Jealous? Of you? You're not even our species!"
"You want to get involved with some alien? Go ahead."

There's some prejudice there, imo.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
Yeah he wasn't standing next to her. I believe he was likely ready to fire (Shepard did tell them to be prepared) its just that Ashley fired first. Kaidan didn't know what was going on at first and asked "Did you just kill him chief?"

"Better him than the Commander."

"Yeah...I suppose." Not sure if Kaidan was paying much attention lol.

Plus Ashley actually doesn't kill Wrex in one playthrough if you don't recruit Garrus and Liara  but that is due to Wrex standing down earlier. When she does shoot him they are still pointing their guns at each other and she could have over heard the conversation through suit radio.

Uh yes he was. Look at where they're standing before Shep goes to talk to Wrex. They're right next to each other.

And I'm pretty sure Kaidan was paying attention.

And my point was Ash shoots Wrex if he doesn't stand down fast enough for her liking. No matter what Shep says or does that to me is her thinking she knows better and that would (if I could) have my Shepard throw her off his ship. As it is he leaves her on Virmire if she kills Wrex.

I just watched the video. When she shot Wrex Kaidan wasn't near her. He was in the area but not near her. Only until after she shot him he says "Wait what? Did you just kill him chief?" He was genuinely surprised by what happened and seemed to not really notice it until afterwards. If he was actually near her he could have easily stopped her from firing the weapon.

Yes Ash waits until Shepard is unable to convince Wrex. Its likely that she just overheard the conversation.

[Badpie]

I love how no one ever slams any of the other non-humans for saying crappy things about other races.... Or you know....trying to wipe them out with plague and genophage or calling "purebloods" of their own a taboo pox on their society.

Modifié par Badpie, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:16 .