498 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Random Jerkface wrote...

But for clarification: How exactly does whether or not Ash was justified in shooting Wrex factor at all into discussions about her alleged racism?

She wouldn't have shot Wrex if he was a human because she would've thought he could've been talked down?

Hell if I know.

[1136342t54_]

[quote]Ryzaki wrote...

Actually I believe those barriers don't work if you're too close. Like it'll stop a force coming in from a certain distance but if you're too close to start with you're dead. It's why a shot from close up is instantly fatal while one from too far away gets deflected from the shields.

If my knowledge of the lore is accurate anyway.
[/quote]
Depends on how close. They probably are close enough in which it won't work but then again that also means that Wrex has a better chance at killing Shepard than Shepard does him. Wrex is more likely to survive that shot.
[quote]
Or she's just nosy and jumped the gun. YMMV.
[/quote]
Okay then.

[quote]
Shepard could have but its likely he wouldn't. At that point Wrex pretty much says no more talking he was done negotiating and Shepard never showed that he or she was going to let even part of that cure leave the planet. Why would Shepard let him go?  Wrex doesn't want the cure destroyed but Shepard does. The entire scene is set up so that its likely Wrex will shoot Shepard. It can be argued that he wouldn't but even then I doubt that he would just leave the planet and let Shepard destroy it.

Shepard is a enemy specifically because he wants to destroy the cure and Wrex doesn't. You can say that Shepard could have offered to give part of the cure to Wrex (what do you mean by part half the data?) but its pretty obvious that their intentions is to destroy the cure. Blame Bioware for not giving Shepard the option to get the data. Even then I doubt Shepard would. If a Krogan cure was out there I'm sure the Council would blame Shepard.

[/quote]

...Uh when has paragon Shepard *ever* attacked someone who didn't attack him first? Please I will wait. As long as Wrex isn't attacking paragon Shepard, paragon Shepard isn't attacking him. That's how paragon Shepard works. (unless you have committed atrocities which...Wrex hasn't done). Yeah I meant just the data not half the data.

So what about the STGs intentions? It's not like Shepard listens to authority if he doesn't want to (unless they force him). And yeah so what the council tends to complain and whine about every damn thing. Freed Rachni "OMG SHEPARD!" saved colony? "OMG SHEPARD!" Seriously wanted a STFU option.

Not to mention Saren didn't even HAVE a genophage cure. He was cloning them. That's not a cure. Which Shepard and Wrex would've realized once they got into the base.
[/quote]
I'm talking about Wrex shooting Shepard first since he will try and get the cure which is opposite to Wrex's goals. Shepard being paragon has nothing to do with Wrex shooting Shepard. 

Actually I was thinking they would just end up court martialing him at that point.

Saren doesn't have a cure but they don't actually know that. Shepard at that point wants to destroy the cure even when you persuade Wrex he makes an argument for destroying the cure. Shepard would have never persuaded Wrex unless he gained his trust or is persuasive enough to convince Wrex to destroy the cure. I seriously doubt that Shepard would have changed his mind and suddenly got persuasive enough to not get Wrex to shoot him.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

But for clarification: How exactly does whether or not Ash was justified in shooting Wrex factor at all into discussions about her alleged racism?

She wouldn't have shot Wrex if he was a human because she would've thought he could've been talked down?

Hell if I know.

I thought this was just a random argument about Ash being justified for shooting Wrex?

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Depends on how close. They probably are close enough in which it won't work but then again that also means that Wrex has a better chance at killing Shepard than Shepard does him. Wrex is more likely to survive that shot

*snip*.

He does. But he doesn't attack Shepard.

Probably because he doesn't want to kill Shepard.

Needless to say I disagree with pretty much everything else you posted as well. We are not going to convince each other of anything I'm afraid.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 janvier 2012 - 12:25 .

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

I think this argument will continue since one of us believe that Wrex wasn't ever going to shoot Shepard and the other does. The thing is the way the entire thing is set up it actually looks like Wrex will shoot shepard since he will try and destroy the cure.

And I don't think he is going to shoot Shepard. Merely frustrated and taking it out the only way he's used too. Why be caught off guard by Shep's attack if he was gonna shoot Shepard? 

So yeah...we will go in circles. Agree to disagree? 

Alright I'm fine with that. I was getting that "Sorry can't go to bed. Someone is wrong on the internet." syndrome lol

[What a Succulent Ass]

Ryzaki wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

But for clarification: How exactly does whether or not Ash was justified in shooting Wrex factor at all into discussions about her alleged racism?

She wouldn't have shot Wrex if he was a human because she would've thought he could've been talked down?

Hell if I know.

Nah, I think she would have shot him regardless. Would have been funny to have her on Zaeed's loyalty mission. She probably would have shot him too.

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Alright I'm fine with that. I was getting that "Sorry can't go to bed. Someone is wrong on the internet." syndrome lol

Same I would've continued but my stomach growled. I needz food and I can't debate when I'm eating.

Anyways I wish Wrex was a squaddie. A certain ME3 scene would be an epic callback. Alas.

Random Jerkface wrote...
Nah, I think she would have shot him regardless. Would have been funny to have her on Zaeed's loyalty mission. She probably would have shot him too.

This would've been glorious. But that's because my Shep would've shot Zaeed himself if the game would've let him.

You do not sacrifice innocents for your own selfish revenge infront of Shepard. You will get a bullet to the face or a fist. Zaeed's lucky he only got the fist.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 janvier 2012 - 12:27 .

[Spoiledrotten]

...that bad?

I'm sure that my trauma was magnified because I grew up watching those movies, but even so, yeah, it was pretty awful.

Still the first three movies are a must, I think. Even if you don't enjoy them, they're like... a part of culture now, on a global level.

God, I wanted to be an archaeologist for most of my childhood because of those movies. The knowledge that archaeologists don't actually fight the ****s or wreck stuff they find took a little while to sink in.

Anyway, back to Ash, she done what she felt like she had to do. I highly doubt that had anything to do with Wrex's race.

[1136342t54_]

Ryzaki wrote...
Same I would've continued but my stomach growled. I needz food and I can't debate when I'm eating.

Anyways I wish Wrex was a squaddie. A certain ME3 scene would be an epic callback. Alas.

Same here. Me and my friends really hoped for Wrex to be a squadmate in ME2 and ME3. Grunt was pretty cool but he was no Wrex. 

I need a proper biotic tank BIOWARE! 

[Ryzaki]

1136342t54 wrote...
Same here. Me and my friends really hoped for Wrex to be a squadmate in ME2 and ME3. Grunt was pretty cool but he was no Wrex. 

I need a proper biotic tank BIOWARE! 

Bleh Grunt. Snooze fest compared to Wrex. Even worse when Wrex's kickass cameo came up.

I miss Vanguards that didn't suck (that weren't Shepard).

[Wulfram]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Nah, I think she would have shot him regardless. Would have been funny to have her on Zaeed's loyalty mission. She probably would have shot him too.

We should be able to have Ashley shoot everybody.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Wulfram wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

Nah, I think she would have shot him regardless. Would have been funny to have her on Zaeed's loyalty mission. She probably would have shot him too.

We should be able to have Ashley shoot everybody.

This needs to be a meme now.

>Miranda shoots Wilson
>Ashley shoots Miranda
"UNTRUSTWORTHY"

>Thane falls out of the ventilation
>Ashley shoots Thane
"A DANGEROUS ASSASSIN"

>"My quarrel is with these Eclipse sisters. But I see three well-armed strangers before me. Are we friend or foe?"
>BANG

>"Maybe we should just knock her out and take her?"
>"Just try it!"
>SHOT

>"Shepard-Commander"
>SHOT
"A geth!"

>"Human. Female. Before you die -"
>SHOT

[seirhart]

that asari lady whatever her name is says she managed to escape the nuke using a utility pod.

[PrinceLionheart]

Ryzaki wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

But for clarification: How exactly does whether or not Ash was justified in shooting Wrex factor at all into discussions about her alleged racism?

She wouldn't have shot Wrex if he was a human because she would've thought he could've been talked down?

Hell if I know.

Wrex is the fan favorite. That's pretty much all it amounts to. Ash getting bashed for pulling the trigger on Wrex is idiotic though since she only does it if Shep's efforts to talk him down fails in the first place.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Badpie wrote...

I love how no one ever slams any of the other non-humans for saying crappy things about other races.... Or you know....trying to wipe them out with plague and genophage or calling "purebloods" of their own a taboo pox on their society.

Of course no one ever does; they're aliens, and thusly held to a lower standard than human characters.

[AdmiralCheez]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I love how no one ever slams any of the other non-humans for saying crappy things about other races.... Or you know....trying to wipe them out with plague and genophage or calling "purebloods" of their own a taboo pox on their society.

Of course no one ever does; they're aliens, and thusly held to a lower standard than human characters.

Hey, it's not my fault no one ever makes angry threads about Garrus's douchebag elevator comments.

Garrus: I hope the quarians are properly contrite for unleashing the geth on the galaxy, Tali.

Tali: As the turians are properly contrite for unleashing the genophage on the krogan?

Garrus: You are assuming the genophage was a mistake.

Good lord, did I want to punch that smug bastard.  But he got over it, and by ME3 he respects Wrex immensely and cares about the future of the krogan.  Ashley grows, too.  And I love them both for it.

See, you're missing the mark about humans vs. aliens.  What's really going on here, in my humble opinion, is a bunch of angry nerds attempting to prove their space waifu is the bestest evar by putting down all the alternatives.  Note all the flack aimed at Tali, Liara, Miranda, and Jack.

[ADLegend21]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I love how no one ever slams any of the other non-humans for saying crappy things about other races.... Or you know....trying to wipe them out with plague and genophage or calling "purebloods" of their own a taboo pox on their society.

Of course no one ever does; they're aliens, and thusly held to a lower standard than human characters.

Hey, it's not my fault no one ever makes angry threads about Garrus's douchebag elevator comments.

Garrus: I hope the quarians are properly contrite for unleashing the geth on the galaxy, Tali.

Tali: As the turians are properly contrite for unleashing the genophage on the krogan?

Garrus: You are assuming the genophage was a mistake.

Good lord, did I want to punch that smug bastard.  But he got over it, and by ME3 he respects Wrex immensely and cares about the future of the krogan.  Ashley grows, too.  And I love them both for it.

See, you're missing the mark about humans vs. aliens.  What's really going on here, in my humble opinion, is a bunch of angry nerds attempting to prove their space waifu is the bestest evar by putting down all the alternatives.  Note all the flack aimed at Tali, Liara, Miranda, and Jack.

I wanted to punch him to, go all weird wind up on him and everything.

[Shifty-looking Chicken]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I love how no one ever slams any of the other non-humans for saying crappy things about other races.... Or you know....trying to wipe them out with plague and genophage or calling "purebloods" of their own a taboo pox on their society.

Of course no one ever does; they're aliens, and thusly held to a lower standard than human characters.

Hey, it's not my fault no one ever makes angry threads about Garrus's douchebag elevator comments.

Garrus: I hope the quarians are properly contrite for unleashing the geth on the galaxy, Tali.

Tali: As the turians are properly contrite for unleashing the genophage on the krogan?

Garrus: You are assuming the genophage was a mistake.

Good lord, did I want to punch that smug bastard.  But he got over it, and by ME3 he respects Wrex immensely and cares about the future of the krogan.  Ashley grows, too.  And I love them both for it.

See, you're missing the mark about humans vs. aliens.  What's really going on here, in my humble opinion, is a bunch of angry nerds attempting to prove their space waifu is the bestest evar by putting down all the alternatives.  Note all the flack aimed at Tali, Liara, Miranda, and Jack.

I myself quite disliked Garrus during that elevator conversation myself. It was probably the first and only time I was ever angry at him.

[Ryzaki]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
*snip*

Heh. I nodded in agreement. (as did my paragon.)

The Turians solved a problem, the Quarians caused one. Of course I was never the biggest fans of the quarians. I will lmao if Garrus chastizes my paragon though.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 24 janvier 2012 - 05:04 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

Huh. Never heard that dialogue since I never use Garrus.

Renegade + 5
Respect - 10

[darthnick427]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Badpie wrote...

I love how no one ever slams any of the other non-humans for saying crappy things about other races.... Or you know....trying to wipe them out with plague and genophage or calling "purebloods" of their own a taboo pox on their society.

Of course no one ever does; they're aliens, and thusly held to a lower standard than human characters.

Hey, it's not my fault no one ever makes angry threads about Garrus's douchebag elevator comments.

Garrus: I hope the quarians are properly contrite for unleashing the geth on the galaxy, Tali.

Tali: As the turians are properly contrite for unleashing the genophage on the krogan?

Garrus: You are assuming the genophage was a mistake.

Good lord, did I want to punch that smug bastard.  But he got over it, and by ME3 he respects Wrex immensely and cares about the future of the krogan.  Ashley grows, too.  And I love them both for it.

See, you're missing the mark about humans vs. aliens.  What's really going on here, in my humble opinion, is a bunch of angry nerds attempting to prove their space waifu is the bestest evar by putting down all the alternatives.  Note all the flack aimed at Tali, Liara, Miranda, and Jack.

the only remark he made that annoyed me ever. Luckily he's totally over that faze and is cool with everybody. I always felt Ash was too after ME1

[terdferguson123]

Racism - A belief or doctrine that inherit differences among various races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior to others."


So she compares aliens, who are even more capable of advancement than humans, to dogs, then claims that you will always choose your own race over your dog. Her analogy was exactly what she meant it to be. She was saying that aliens in this case are dogs, and that humans are superior to "dogs".

With that said, I get it, you like her character, thats fine, but stop trying to argue against her created personality. She is a racist, and that is exactly what Bioware intended for her because it gives her character.

Whether you like that about her or not, that is a different story.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 26 janvier 2012 - 09:34 .

[Nashiktal]

terdferguson123 wrote...

Racism - "A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various races determine cultural or individual achievemnt, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior to others."


So she compares aliens, who are even more capable of advancement than humans, to dogs, then claims that you will always choose your own race over your dog. Her analogy was exactly what she meant it to be. She was saying that aliens in this case are dogs, and that humans are superior to "dogs". I get it, you like her character, thats fine, but stop trying to argue against her created personality. She is a racist, and that is exactly what Bioware intended for her because it gives her character.

She never compared aliens to dogs, she compared HUMANITY to being the dog of the aliens.


Her point of that story is that a species will protect their own before protecting another. If humanity was faced between saving the dolphins, or apes of the world (both intelligent animals, not quite on par with humanity), or save themselves from destruction, the likely outcome is that humanity would sacrifice that species for survival.

Not racist at all. She also exclaims how she has trouble differentiating aliens from animals (Which was a bugged dialogue which wass supposed to happen around keepers) but when you compare hanar, keepers, who don't even wear clothes like other alien species, you can see where she might have trouble.

[terdferguson123]

Nashiktal wrote...

terdferguson123 wrote...

Racism - "A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various races determine cultural or individual achievemnt, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior to others."


So she compares aliens, who are even more capable of advancement than humans, to dogs, then claims that you will always choose your own race over your dog. Her analogy was exactly what she meant it to be. She was saying that aliens in this case are dogs, and that humans are superior to "dogs". I get it, you like her character, thats fine, but stop trying to argue against her created personality. She is a racist, and that is exactly what Bioware intended for her because it gives her character.

She never compared aliens to dogs, she compared HUMANITY to being the dog of the aliens.


Her point of that story is that a species will protect their own before protecting another. If humanity was faced between saving the dolphins, or apes of the world (both intelligent animals, not quite on par with humanity), or save themselves from destruction, the likely outcome is that humanity would sacrifice that species for survival.

Not racist at all. She also exclaims how she has trouble differentiating aliens from animals (Which was a bugged dialogue which wass supposed to happen around keepers) but when you compare hanar, keepers, who don't even wear clothes like other alien species, you can see where she might have trouble.

Forgive me it's been awhile since I've played the game.

Regardless, the analogy is EXACTLY the same no matter which side the "dog" is. Ultimately she is saying that humans or aliens will always feel that their race is worth saving over the other. That is in all forms of the word the very definition of racism.

Modifié par terdferguson123, 26 janvier 2012 - 09:43 .