393 réponses à ce sujet

[Dewart]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Good god man! You are crazy! I always do no medigel/unity (mainly because I don't pause), and I have a no Shepard deaths insanity run...but a no squad deaths insanity playthrough??? To put my psyche at the mercy of companion AI?....wow!

The way it sounds, I would probably smash my monitor.

There was a lot of loading save games and a lot of swearing. lol the swearing was mostly directed at squad members. I will say going back to regular play style after that I noticed a marked increase in ability to very quickly plow through insanity. Come on ME3 because ME2 now plays itself.

now back to the topic at hand.

[Cadell_Agathon]

I've read through this entire topic and found it very thought provoking. MJvasNormandy, thank you for creating such an eloquent OP that accurately identify not only your fears but that of many adept players. Hopefully the devs are watching.

My Views
As an adept player I share many players' concern and worry over the inclusion of biotic grenade as a class power (especially at the loss of overpower). This concern comes from the possibility of major power overlap and how unfitting bionades (hehe) are with the adept.

I won't go as far as saying the Devs are incompetent or that the adept is no longer unique/exciting because of the bionades. A few posters have pointed out (with varying levels of success and civility) that the adept's uniqueness comes not from a single physical power but unparalleled power synergy and manipulation. I happen to agree but that doesn't mean a shiny new power wouldn't be appreciated.

It may be too late in the development cycle to get rid of bionade but I believe a slight tweak to the default power load out might be a good compromise. A poster earlier suggested giving up shockwave (they believe it to be more of a vanguard power) in favor for Stasis or Barrier. I think it's a good idea and I'd like to know how people feel about giving up SW?

[Dewart]

Bionade lol kind of sounds like a drink. Shockwave would be a good power to give up. Actually even if they switched shockwave and a biotic bonus power.

Bonus power X becomes base adept skill. Shockwave becomes a bonus power to replace Bonus power X.

edit: I could see warp ammo being the most likely only because the description of it mentions that it takes a great deal of biotic power and focus or something along those lines. I imagine warp ammo fans that arn't adept may find that rather upsetting.

Modifié par Dewart, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:49 .

[MJvasNormandy]

Cadell_Agathon wrote...

I've read through this entire topic and found it very thought provoking. MJvasNormandy, thank you for creating such an eloquent OP that accurately identify not only your fears but that of many adept players. Hopefully the devs are watching.

My Views
As an adept player I share many players' concern and worry over the inclusion of biotic grenade as a class power (especially at the loss of overpower). This concern comes from the possibility of major power overlap and how unfitting bionades (hehe) are with the adept.

I won't go as far as saying the Devs are incompetent or that the adept is no longer unique/exciting because of the bionades. A few posters have pointed out (with varying levels of success and civility) that the adept's uniqueness comes not from a single physical power but unparalleled power synergy and manipulation. I happen to agree but that doesn't mean a shiny new power wouldn't be appreciated.

It may be too late in the development cycle to get rid of bionade but I believe a slight tweak to the default power load out might be a good compromise. A poster earlier suggested giving up shockwave (they believe it to be more of a vanguard power) in favor for Stasis or Barrier. I think it's a good idea and I'd like to know how people feel about giving up SW?

No, thank you. I can tell you read through this topic as your comment reflects the general tone of this thread. It's been bumpy, but I feel like it has turned into one of the most amicable/respectful threads I've seen in a while. Hopefully, that trend continues.

As far as SW, I feel the power is highly underrated. It's by no means the best power on insanity, but it offers something unique...absolute line of sight abuse. With the added stagger effects biotics have on protected enemies in ME3, i'm sure SW will hold its own. As far as replacing it with Barrier or Stasis, sure....but I'd rather those powers take the BioGrenade slot.

I wouldn't want to take Biotic Grenades out of the game, mind you, but they might end up better suited as a bonus power.

[MJvasNormandy]

Dewart wrote...

Bionade lol kind of sounds like a drink. Shockwave would be a good power to give up. Actually even if they switched shockwave and a biotic bonus power.

Bonus power X becomes base adept skill. Shockwave becomes a bonus power to replace Bonus power X.

edit: I could see warp ammo being the most likely only because the description of it mentions that it takes a great deal of biotic power and focus or something along those lines. I imagine warp ammo fans that arn't adept may find that rather upsetting.

Hmm...Bionade. Maybe that was the original concept for Overpower. Loaded with Eezo, essential electrolytes, and enriched with Vitamin B12, Bionade maximizes your biotic potential. Available at your local retailer.

[Cadell_Agathon]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Cadell_Agathon wrote...
-snip-

No, thank you. I can tell you read through this topic as your comment reflects the general tone of this thread. It's been bumpy, but I feel like it has turned into one of the most amicable/respectful threads I've seen in a while. Hopefully, that trend continues.

As far as SW, I feel the power is highly underrated. It's by no means the best power on insanity, but it offers something unique...absolute line of sight abuse. With the added stagger effects biotics have on protected enemies in ME3, i'm sure SW will hold its own. As far as replacing it with Barrier or Stasis, sure....but I'd rather those powers take the BioGrenade slot.

I wouldn't want to take Biotic Grenades out of the game, mind you, but they might end up better suited as a bonus power.

You're right. The thread has been bumpy but just about everyone has kept a cool and collected head while discussing their ideas. Hopefully this gives the devs some serious food for thought before it's too late! 

Now, I'd love to give up bionades in favor for Barrier, Stasis, or Biotic Focus. But I feel like the devs would have done so already if they were ok with removing bionades from the default loadout. I'm no game designer so I have no idea how they balance and decide a class' loadout but I'd be in heaven if any of the aforementioned three became an adept default. 


You know, I really like the sound of Bionade...even if it does sound like a sports drink for biotics.  

Modifié par Cadell_Agathon, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:07 .

[Grunt420]

how do you know if the Biotic Grenades is not good for adepts game play wise without seeing gameplay

[Dewart]

The one thought I had that keeps me from hateing the bionade is this:

Imagine a battle layout where there are 6 enemies in front of you. 3 of them on the ground in front and a few meters back are the other 3 on a raised platform behind cover. you throw out your singularity to the 3 in front and lob you bionade over the cover the 3 above are hiding behind. You and your squadmates immediately start stripping the defences of the 3 on the ground. That grenade you threw is going off and sending the other three to the ground so all 6 are close together. By the time the 3 that were on the platform are picking themself up of the ground your cooldown is gone and you are detonating an enemy caught in your singularity.

Another thing I was thinking is that if the enemies that were caught in the blast of a biogrenade could then be detonated with warp.

Modifié par Dewart, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:25 .

[Dewart]

No matter what they are called when the game is released I will always be calling them bionades from this point on. It has such a nice ring to it. Good word smithing Cadell_Agathon

[MJvasNormandy]

Grunt420 wrote...

how do you know if the Biotic Grenades is not good for adepts game play wise without seeing gameplay

Read the OP, specifically the addendum. This is not a thread about whether or not the grenade is good, but whether it compliments the Adept's suite of powers. As far as any speculation, which is the very unavoidable nature of this topic, it is based off the few sources we have for the ability and general fan knowledge of how core game mechanics of the franchise work (mainly drawing off ME2).

Modifié par MJvasNormandy, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:22 .

[Cadell_Agathon]

Dewart wrote...

The one thought I had that keeps me hateing the bionade is this:

Imagine a battle layout where there are 6 enemies in front of you. 3 of them on the ground in front and a few meters back are the other 3 on a raised platform behind cover. you throw out your singularity to the 3 in front and lob you bionade over the cover the 3 above are hiding behind. You and your squadmates immediately start stripping the defences of the 3 on the ground. That grenade you threw is going off and sending the other three to the ground so all 6 are close together. By the time the 3 that were on the platform are picking themself up of the ground your cooldown is gone and you are detonating an enemy caught in your singularity.

Another thing I was thinking is that if the enemies that were caught in the blast of a biogrenade could then be detonated with warp.

Did you mean "keeps me from"? 

Anyways, I do like the senario you came up with. That's probably a possible use for the bionades. Oh, and I don't think the nades can be dedonated with warp seeing as they are described as a warpsplosion all in one nice package. 

Question: Do you think a senario similar to the one you described with bionades also be handled with an adept using a stasis instead of a grenade? 


@Dewart: Aww thanks man.  I'm gonna do the same so if you're ever playing MP and you hear some guy frantically yelling "Deploying BIONADES!" you know who it is.

Modifié par Cadell_Agathon, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:24 .

[Dewart]

yeow yeow yeow just had a thought if it is too late for the developers to take the bionade out I wonder if maybe they could still tweak the effects.

Imagine enemies caught in the blast instead of being thrown around they suffer a short stasis effect.

[MJvasNormandy]

Cadell_Agathon wrote...

Dewart wrote...

The one thought I had that keeps me hateing the bionade is this:

*snip

Did you mean "keeps me from"? 

Anyways, I do like the senario you came up with. That's probably a possible use for the bionades. Oh, and I don't think the nades can be dedonated with warp seeing as they are described as a warpsplosion all in one nice package. 

Question: Do you think a senario similar to the one you described with bionades also be handled with an adept using a stasis instead of a grenade? 

Yes, Dewart, can you please clarify? Because this post confuse me too, and I would like to understand it--sounds interesting. Is the scenario you describe positive or negative? --because you mention "hating," but I don't see it.

Modifié par MJvasNormandy, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:25 .

[Cadell_Agathon]

Dewart wrote...

yeow yeow yeow just had a thought if it is too late for the developers to take the bionade out I wonder if maybe they could still tweak the effects.

Imagine enemies caught in the blast instead of being thrown around they suffer a short stasis effect.

If they do tweak the effects I don't think it could be similar to an excisting biotic power. Otherwise, what's stopping people from calling it stasis grenade? 

But I agree. If we must keep it, it should be diversified because as of now, it's a bit too similar to Frag grenade.

[MJvasNormandy]

Dewart wrote...

yeow yeow yeow just had a thought if it is too late for the developers to take the bionade out I wonder if maybe they could still tweak the effects.

Imagine enemies caught in the blast instead of being thrown around they suffer a short stasis effect.

I think any effect other than another "deals force of x Newtons" or "lifts target" would be good. Stasis, extra sensitivity to biotics, etc....it's all good.

[Dewart]

Cadell_Agathon wrote...

Did you mean "keeps me from"? 

Anyways, I do like the senario you came up with. That's probably a possible use for the bionades. Oh, and I don't think the nades can be dedonated with warp seeing as they are described as a warpsplosion all in one nice package. 

Question: Do you think a senario similar to the one you described with bionades also be handled with an adept using a stasis instead of a grenade? 


@Dewart: Aww thanks man.  I'm gonna do the same so if you're ever playing MP and you hear some guy frantically yelling "Deploying BIONADES!" you know who it is.

yes the from is supposed to be there lol thanks for catching that. stasis would work in that situation but  I don't think it would look as cool

[Malanek]

Do these grenades use the global cooldown?

[Dewart]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

I think any effect other than another "deals force of x Newtons" or "lifts target" would be good. Stasis, extra sensitivity to biotics, etc....it's all good.

if it deals force and gives biotic sensitivity I would likely be more than happy.

Enemies on the left enemies on the right. Singularity right group then toss your grenade to the left of the left group. start stripping right groups defences then boom left group flies to the right group. Warp on the enemies that flew from the left (now biotic sensitive) boom then everyone will be in your singularity.

[Cadell_Agathon]

Malanek999 wrote...

Do these grenades use the global cooldown?

From what I've read on Biotic Sage's thread, they are off GC but limited in number.

[Dewart]

do we know if the grenade is supposed to be a timed explosion an impact explosion or a proximity explosion sort of deal. That would make a big difference depending on which of those it is.

[Cadell_Agathon]

Dewart wrote...

Cadell_Agathon wrote...

Question: Do you think a senario similar to the one you described with bionades also be handled with an adept using a stasis instead of a grenade? 

yes the from is supposed to be there lol thanks for catching that. stasis would work in that situation but  I don't think it would look as cool

I think the cool factor would depend on what play style you were going for. For instance, if I wanted to CC those mooks you were talking about earlier I would hit the 3 guys on the platform with a stasis field (I believe one of evos allows a field big enough for multiple victims and the field can either do damage over time for you or allow some of your weapons fire to hurt them) and launch an exploding singularity (another ME3 evo) at the 3 guys on the ground. From there I'd strip them as you would waiting for my cool down. At the end of my singularity's duration it will detonate (similar to a warpsplosion IIRC) without a warp bomb.

From there I'd launch a singularity at the guys on the platform after stasis ended and warp bomb them the normal way to send them flying off the ledge aiming for some steep fall damage or insta kills. Any survivors? A nice pull field and throw combo (remember throw does more damage now with detonations) to send them to the maker. 

With our imaginative and possibly off senarios, I'm at least assured that combat in ME3 will be very fun to customize and personalize. 

Disclaimer
This of course was a speculative of what I could do with stasis field and no power help from my team. Also, since we don't know the cooldowns and all the damage/duration/radius multipliers this senario could be completely off...but fun!   

Modifié par Cadell_Agathon, 26 janvier 2012 - 03:07 .

[Cadell_Agathon]

Dewart wrote...

do we know if the grenade is supposed to be a timed explosion an impact explosion or a proximity explosion sort of deal. That would make a big difference depending on which of those it is.

I'm not really sure about this one. I'm guessing either timed or impact because a proximity explosion might be stepping on Garrus' shoes. 

[Malanek]

Cadell_Agathon wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Do these grenades use the global cooldown?

From what I've read on Biotic Sage's thread, they are off GC but limited in number.

To be fair, even though I'm still not overly excited about the creativity shown, that is a pretty massive point of difference.

[Cadell_Agathon]

Malanek999 wrote...

To be fair, even though I'm still not overly excited about the creativity shown, that is a pretty massive point of difference.

I'm pretty much feeling the same thing. They'll more than likely have a use and they'll probably be pretty fun but...

[Dewart]

Cadell_Agathon wrote...

I think the cool factor would depend on what play style you were going for. For instance, if I wanted to CC those mooks you were talking about earlier I would hit the 3 guys on the platform with a stasis field (I believe one of evos allows a field big enough for multiple victims and the field can either do damage over time for you or allow some of your weapons fire to hurt them) and launch an exploding singularity (another ME3 evo) at the 3 guys on the ground. From there I'd strip them as you would waiting for my cool down. At the end of my singularity's duration it will detonate (similar to a warpsplosion IIRC) without a warp bomb.

From there I'd launch a singularity at the guys on the platform after stasis ended and warp bomb them the normal way to send them flying off the ledge aiming for some steep fall damage or insta kills. Any survivors? A nice pull field and throw combo (remember throw does more damage now with detonations) to send them to the maker. 

With our imaginative and possibly off senarios, I'm at least assured that combat in ME3 will be very fun to customize and personalize. 

Disclaimer
This of course was a speculative of what I could do with stasis field and no power help from my team. Also, since we don't know the cooldowns and all the damage/duration/radius multipliers this senario could be completely off...but fun!   

Well when you describe it like that it does sound very cool  
I did the Bastion thing in ME1 put 6 pts in stasis and had a maxed out sniper bonus power with all other powers maxed. Lets just say that character build was a god.
That would be my only worry with giving an adept stasis as a base power in ME3 too close to the ME1 god like.

Your description of stastis use is cool but it leaves little room for error in my opinion. You would definatly be a god you need to let the enemy have some chance lol