393 réponses à ce sujet

[X-Frame]

I don't understand why there's a biotic grenade and not a CC biotic explosion that fires off Shepard's barrier to push enemies away. That seems too obvious as an Adept power.

[Wulfram]

X-Frame wrote...

I don't understand why there's a biotic grenade and not a CC biotic explosion that fires off Shepard's barrier to push enemies away. That seems too obvious as an Adept power.

Because that's Nova?

[MJvasNormandy]

Vapaä wrote...

MJvasNormandy wrote...

I don't have time to look up great examples, but this is a decent one:

Notice the blast knocksdown or otherwise staggers enemies.

I don't see any "flinging ennemies" sure the warplosion makes a blast but I hardly call a being propelled at 3-4 meters to be "flying".

Like I said, not the greatest examples, but it happens. Plus, it's actual physical evidence. Unlike a tweet by a developer that is just words, words that might actually be describing exactly what is happening in those videos. Not to mention the vidoes in question are played on insanity (more enemy resistance), while developers usually play on normal if not casual.

[X-Frame]

Wulfram wrote...

X-Frame wrote...

I don't understand why there's a biotic grenade and not a CC biotic explosion that fires off Shepard's barrier to push enemies away. That seems too obvious as an Adept power.

Because that's Nova?

Oh really? Apologies I haven't been keeping up with much that is ME3 related -- just glanced at the front page and saw this.

[Vapaa]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Like I said, not the greatest examples, but it happens. Plus, it's actual physical evidence. Unlike a tweet by a developer that is just words, words that might actually be describing exactly what is happening in those videos. Not to mention the vidoes in question are played on insanity (more enemy resistance), while developers usually play on normal if not casual.

"It happens" yes it happens, but not that often.

Anyway I can't see how you can say that it's a bad power when you don't know anything about, sure you can have a bad feeling, but going around saying "it's a warplosion", based on some vague developper twitt is beyond me.

[MJvasNormandy]

Vapaä wrote...

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Like I said, not the greatest examples, but it happens. Plus, it's actual physical evidence. Unlike a tweet by a developer that is just words, words that might actually be describing exactly what is happening in those videos. Not to mention the vidoes in question are played on insanity (more enemy resistance), while developers usually play on normal if not casual.

"It happens" yes it happens, but not that often.

Anyway I can't see how you can say that it's a bad power when you don't know anything about, sure you can have a bad feeling, but going around saying "it's a warplosion", based on some vague developper twitt is beyond me.

This will be my final rebuttal.

The phrase "it happens" was referring to the notion of enemies sent literally flying into the air by warp detonations. That effect is merely cosmetic, as the consistently  occuring knockdown/throw effect of warp explosions is equally efficacious.

That same notion, which was first mentioned by you as the key difference between warp and biotic grenades, is speculative. Meaning, that is what you derived from the developer tweet. A tweet you are now calling vague and state is unsuited for interpretation. So here's what happened:

1. You said biotic grenades fling enemies (based on the tweet), warp doesn't
2. I stated warp explosions do fling enemies
3. You said the don't
4. I showed you evidence that they did
5. You said the effect wasn't large enough (again, measured against your preconceived notion of biotic grenades based on a tweet)
6. I said it's not typical for the effect to be so pronounced but possible
7. Now acknowledging that said effect exists, you dismiss it's infrequency as a flaw, then dismiss the tweet your arguments were based on

As far as me speculating, yes, I am. I mention it in my OP. I also mention that the counter-argument (that biotic grenades don't do what I'm guessing) is thus also speculative. As I said to another user, I am discussing the potential issue preemptively, instead of needlessly complaining retrospectively.

I enjoy a debate, but not one that throws about red herrings. Thanks for the discussion and I leave you with the final word. I will not reply.

[Guanxi]

Grenades and [probably] an additional passive power (fitness... i.e. health/melee, etc) for the adept class? Meh. So basically no actual new [biotic] powers for the class then? Well that sucks... but at least we can save our skill points and max out nemesis/bastion and the 4 core biotic powers.

Still it's really annoying to have half of the class powers probably still be totally worthless, e.g. shockwave, fitness, biotic grenades -really[?] and still no barrier? Not swaping stasis for suckwave.... really?

After all the big talk about a load of changes and all the feedback about the adept class from Mass Effect 2 this is sounding so very dissapointing. I guess we can only be pleasantly at this point.

Modifié par Guanxi, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:22 .

[DiosMios]

Your diagram is quite appreciated as it got me to think about the Adept's powers in relation to one another. I've never played as an Adept, but I know their powers and I can see the consistency to their design. Push and pull, implode and explode; the powers are all related to drawing an opponent inward or pushing them outward, with Shockwave and Singularity as the enhanced versions of Push and Lift.

As such, a redundant version of warp does indeed seem unnecessary and I would consider a power that acts in relation to Shepard to be preferable. Something that coats the player in an aura that pulls and/or pushes nearby enemies and could be triggered by an ally's or enemy's warp seems like a fun, high-risk ability. It would likely be better suited for a Vanguard, but then Nova could be given to the Adept to resolve the issue.

Unless Nova is the power I just described and I'm being an idiot, fingers-crossed that I'm not!

Modifié par DiosMios, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:24 .

[Biotic Sage]

You make a good case and I agree with pretty much all of it. Basically Biotic Grenade is a very underwhelming new unique power for the Adept, redundant in terms of gameplay, and not fitting for the tastes of Adept players (the whole reason we are choosing Adept and not Soldier is because we DON'T want the typical gun/grenade shooter experience).

[Vapaa]

MJvasNormandy wrote...
1. You said biotic grenades fling enemies (based on the tweet), warp doesn't

I supposed that, based on the tweet

MJvasNormandy wrote...
2. I stated warp explosions do fling enemies
3. You said the don't

Yes I said that, now I can say that warplosions do a blast effect, but without any specifications about the biotic grenade, we can't say if the biotic grenade is redundant, for exemple, if the BG send ennemies at 20 meters (instead of 4 meters for the warplosion) that would be a pretty big difference
Both your point and my point have yet the be confirmed.

MJvasNormandy wrote...
4. I showed you evidence that they did
5. You said the effect wasn't large enough (again, measured against your preconceived notion of biotic grenades based on a tweet)

Yes I said the effect isn't large enough, but you're the one who said that biotic grenades are redundant, that's a preconceived notion of the biotic grenades as well.

MJvasNormandy wrote...
6. I said it's not typical for the effect to be so pronounced but possible
7. Now acknowledging that said effect exists, you dismiss it's infrequency as a flaw, then dismiss the tweet your arguments were based on

No, I don't, the blast effect of the warplosion is a nice side effect, but it's frequency shows that's not the main feature of the warplosion, it's now a flaw if your main objective is deal damage.
As for dismissing the tweet, you are misunderstanding (or maybe I wasn't clear enough): all I made based on this tweet are suppositions, you can say anything about this tweet, but this would be speculation. All I say is IF the biotic grenade's main feature is really "flinging ennemies" then it CAN be quite different from a warplosion.

Modifié par Vapaä, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:31 .

[MJvasNormandy]

Biotic Sage wrote...

You make a good case and I agree with pretty much all of it. Basically Biotic Grenade is a very underwhelming new unique power for the Adept, redundant in terms of gameplay, and not fitting for the tastes of Adept players (the whole reason we are choosing Adept and not Soldier is because we DON'T want the typical gun/grenade shooter experience).

Thanks. I know you're primarily an Adept, and if you play the class enough you know exactly how awful this power sounds. I hate speculating, but it's better than waiting and being dissappointed.

Oh btw, thanks for your thread. It's the best thing on this forum, pretty much the only reason I ever check in.

[Guanxi]

Singularity
Warp
Pull
Throw
Stasis
Barrier
Biotic training
Bonus

I Still don't get what is wrong with this combination? It's perfect. Shockwave is a vanguard power. Why didn't BioWare come up with this it's so obvious. 

Modifié par Guanxi, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:34 .

[The Spamming Troll]

i agree with everything bad thats been said about the biotic grenade.

IF A DEV ANSWERED THIS IT WOULD SAVE ME ALOT OF TIME: is my level 60 adept going to be relying on half second staggers, spamming singularity-warpslosions, and flinging biotic grenades because they are better then any of my adepts actual abilities?

[MJvasNormandy]

Guanxi wrote...

Singularity
Warp
Pull
Throw
Stasis
Barrier
Biotic training
Bonus

-I Still don't get what is wrong with this combination? Why didn't BioWare come up with this it's so obvious. Why is it so hard to build an Adept class that doesn't suck?

I honestly think this is the best solution at this point. I've even read user posts that state they don't play adepts and like stasis as a bonus power, but are willing to give it up just because it feels like adepts are getting robbed.

[The Spamming Troll]

Guanxi wrote...

Singularity
Warp
Pull
Throw
Stasis
Barrier
Biotic training
Bonus

....I Still don't get what is wrong with this combination? Why didn't BioWare come up with this it's so obvious. Why is it so hard to build an Adept class that doesn't suck?

i agree completely, even biotic focus is a no brainer adept ability, prolly warp ammo as well. warp ammo not so much, but your kidding yourself if theres a soldier out there that doesnt know atleast one ammo power. as if an adept wouldnt learn warp ammo.

but i was going to post something along this lines, but ALOT of people totally hate the thought of giving your class different options outside of biowares notion of what a class should or shouldnt have. alot of the problem with what the biotic is, is thats its already defined, without taking into account all the available biotics. youd like an adept like that, maybe i want an adept with....

reave
slam
dominate
singularity
warp ammo
throw
pull

would the game be worse off if we had the option in making either of those classes labeled "adepts?"

[Guanxi]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

Guanxi wrote...

Singularity
Warp
Pull
Throw
Stasis
Barrier
Biotic training
Bonus

....I Still don't get what is wrong with this combination? Why didn't BioWare come up with this it's so obvious. Why is it so hard to build an Adept class that doesn't suck?

i agree completely, even biotic focus is a no brainer adept ability, prolly warp ammo as well. warp ammo not so much, but your kidding yourself if theres a soldier out there that doesnt know atleast one ammo power. as if an adept wouldnt learn warp ammo.

but i was going to post something along this lines, but ALOT of people totally hate the thought of giving your class different options outside of biowares notion of what a class should or shouldnt have. alot of the problem with what the biotic is, is thats its already defined, without taking into account all the available biotics. youd like an adept like that, maybe i want an adept with....

reave
slam
dominate
singularity
warp ammo
throw
pull

would the game be worse off if we had the option in making either of those classes labeled "adepts?"

Reave and Dominate are Asari powers not biotics and therefore not suitable for humans. I understand that they make Barrier optional along with GSB and Fortification to give you a choice between the three but it's non-negotiable for adepts imo... any way you look at it from any angle Adepts need some form of protection and by making it optional you deny the player acess to a bonus power. Stasis is the only biotic power that can get around Enemy protections and is therefore essential. Either include stasis or come up with another power that can do that. Without that the class is broken without [a little] help from shep's friends. We need something useful in place of Shockwave, badly.

 I suppose warp ammo is good for undermining some protections but ammo powers are for vangaurds not adepts and there should be some biotic way of doing that. Untill BioWare can come up with something better Stasis is non negotiable imo.

Modifié par Guanxi, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:58 .

[The Spamming Troll]

doesnt kaiden have reave?

but i agree, your adept setup is the best. no doubt. i was just giving more options in making everyone happy, which everyone is definately not happy.

ammo powers SHOULD be for everyone, unless adepts are actually going to earn the saying "best class at taking out enemies without the use of weapons." untill i can say that, then yes, the adept and all classes most definately need ammo powers.for the same reason caster classes should have the same amount of weapons as the hybrids. if abilities are less then weapons, then why are we getting less in weapons too? bioware loves its gunplay better then its ability play.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 24 janvier 2012 - 01:58 .

[Adhin]

I am almost positive they've stated everyone gets access to grenades. And I believe the 'grenade powers' are very much like ammo powers (minus the requirement to turn them on). It like modifies the grenades you do throw (there's an grenade counter above your gun display all the time).

If that is the case, and everyone has grenades then it makes some sense the Adept getting the ability to surround there grenades in a biotic field around it. Doing something like that right would create extra pressure on the grenade on detonation which could potentially increase the explosive force it inflicts.

So, if all that above is correct I don't feel its that off, and is ultimately more probable then Biotic Ammo power Jack had. Idea an Adept who already has, and is using grenades (like all military personal would/do) uses there powers to increase the force? If I was an Adept and I was throwing a grenade I sure as hell would do that.

[Xivai]

This is NEWS to people? After what they did form Mass Effect 1 to 2? You actually thought they might care about the most maligned caster? Hahahahah, people need to open their eyes. Adepts are just going to get another swift kick in the nuts, told to shut up, and that will be the end of it. All of our complaining, evidence giving, and testimonies to the boring powers and useless redundancy to powers outside of singularity/warp was well documented. Did they even offer a tolken fix? No, What about some recognition? HELL NO!

Seriously, don't get your damn hopes up. Feel sorry for you. Like abandoned puppies still thinking the owner is coming back.

[Guanxi]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

doesnt kaiden have reave?

The ammo powers work exactly the same way unfortunately. Kaidan is a sentinel and doesn't possess asari life sucking or mind control powers as far as I know.

[AdmiralCheez]

Wait.

What if... Grenades have no cooldown, or a separate cooldown?

[AdmiralCheez]

jreezy wrote...

They don't

Well, that's a bunch of balls.

[YKfox]

Um, wouldn't it make more sense to wait until the game is released, or the demo at least, (Wherein we will presumably get to play with most of the new skills), and THEN start worrying? I'm sure BioWare is capable of making each class play as it's meant to. (Seeing as how it plays is how they want it to play, being the developers and all.)