393 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 a) Do you know Shepard is the one constructing the grenade that unfolds into a turret? Haven't seen anything which says that is the case

  Maybe a cluster grenade has to be contructed by a biotic user, as it has some 'biotic input'..

Until we know, we can't apply such a standard to one and not to the other

Well, the power has unlimited usage and Shepard's omni-tool activates before the turret shoots out of it.

Compared to other grenade powers which are limited and don't need to be triggered by the omni-tool.

[Lycidas]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

AFAIK we do know biotic grenade is a physical grenade that we have to throw

Do we? If so I would agree that sounds kind of lame but I have not seen any confirmation about that.

[MJvasNormandy]

Lycidas wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

AFAIK we do know biotic grenade is a physical grenade that we have to throw

Do we? If so I would agree that sounds kind of lame but I have not seen any confirmation about that.

All new class powers are designed to have non-cooldown use. Nova, Frag Grenades, Sticky Grenades, Lift Grenades, Sentry Turret (not sure about this one) all use some consumable resource. Biotic Grenades are no different. So like all grenade powers, it's consumable resource is that it is an actual, physical object.

Modifié par MJvasNormandy, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:22 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Vapaä wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

AFAIK we do know biotic grenade is a physical grenade that we have to throw, that does not feel biotic to me.

Well that's a matter of POV, apparently (I can be wrong) you think that biotic should only be initiate by the character, where I think that to be biotic, all it have to do is biotic stuff.

It's a how vs what debate, we'll see when the demo come out.

But that's just it, if we physically toss a warpexplosion/lift orb/singularity combo grendade, it won't matter to me if it's good or not or has biotic effects after the fact.

Oh FYI I believe Liara had lift orb, not lift grenade, and yes naming matters as well as the mechanism of the delivery

i.e. physical grenade vs orb, and animation.

Call me crazy, call me a unique snowflake, just how I feel. I'm glad you're stoked and happy about it, I'm not!

[TobyHasEyes]

Someone With Mass wrote...

TobyHasEyes wrote...

 a) Do you know Shepard is the one constructing the grenade that unfolds into a turret? Haven't seen anything which says that is the case

  Maybe a cluster grenade has to be contructed by a biotic user, as it has some 'biotic input'..

Until we know, we can't apply such a standard to one and not to the other

Well, the power has unlimited usage and Shepard's omni-tool activates before the turret shoots out of it.

Compared to other grenade powers which are limited and don't need to be triggered by the omni-tool.

 Okay, that does make it different to limited use grenades, I grant you that, but it doesn't prove either that Shepard made the turret, or that it requires tech skill

 However this ends up relating back into a the debate as to whether tech powers are really any more specialist than the ammo powers that people state should be usable by all, which is a seperate one

 The point that remains is that there are multiple instances of powers which don't seem to relate to the specific skills of the class, so the 'biotic grenade' doesn't stick out so significantly in that regard

[aphelion4]

Well, I'm disappointed. Either Warp ammo, Stasis or Barrier would have been preferable to a grenade (that ALL classes should have access to regardless...) as the Adept's "unique" power. Or better yet, a whole new power like other classes get. A "biotic" grenade just seems extremely...well, lame. I guess I'll finish ME2 with my Vanguard or make an Engineer. Sucks really, Adept was my favourite.

Crap.

Modifié par aphelion4, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:31 .

[Shepard the Leper]

Vapaä wrote...

I don't think that you're looking at the genereal picture, for exemple you said "it's also not the combo specializing class", but did you looked at the ME3 power thread ? Throw now has more combos possibilities, and an evolution of Biotic mastery reduces recharge when you do biotic combos.

To me it's really overeaction and overspeculation.

I am looking at the general picture.

Executing combos is not related to the Adept in any way. All classes have that potential: some with, others without the help from squadmates. The only thing the ME3 Adept brings to the table are extra versions of common biotic powers. They will be able to execute combos a little more frequently in the best of circumstances. That's the point. A tech character with Overload can pop shields a little quicker than classes who don't have that power, but I don't play Engineer or Sentinel to get an additional Overload, I play those classes first and foremost for their truly unique skills, skills the ME3 Adept lacks.

[Sailears]

I agree with those desiring stasis to be a base adept skill, with extra effects/combos unique to adepts (area stasis anyone?).

I'm not enthusiastic about this grenade though I won't judge it too harshly yet; but if it is just a glorified warp explosion then things could become repetitive very fast.

Unfortunately it seems vanguard might be more of a fun biotic than the adept in ME3.

[Vapaa]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

the only thing the ME3 Adept brings to the table are extra versions of common biotic powers. They will be able to execute combos a little more frequently in the best of circumstances. That's the point.

So that doesn't make him the best class when it comes to biotic combos ?

[Lycidas]

MJvasNormandy wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

AFAIK we do know biotic grenade is a physical grenade that we have to throw

Do we? If so I would agree that sounds kind of lame but I have not seen any confirmation about that.

All new class powers are designed to have non-cooldown use. Nova, Frag Grenades, Sticky Grenades, Lift Grenades, Sentry Turret (not sure about this one) all use some consumable resource. Biotic Grenades are no different. So like all grenade powers, it's consumable resource is that it is an actual, physical object.

I did not think about the other grenade powers at all. I guess I stand corrected then.

[Shepard the Leper]

Vapaä wrote...

Shepard the Leper wrote...

the only thing the ME3 Adept brings to the table are extra versions of common biotic powers. They will be able to execute combos a little more frequently in the best of circumstances. That's the point.

So that doesn't make him the best class when it comes to biotic combos ?

Sure, just like a Sentinel or Engineer are going to be the best classes to pop shields. That, again, isn't enough to justify an entire class, especially when looking at the other classes' power loadouts.

[Vapaa]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Sure, just like a Sentinel or Engineer are going to be the best classes to pop shields. That, again, isn't enough to justify an entire class, especially when looking at the other classes' power loadouts.

Well that totally justify the Adept, the only thing that is yet to be see (besides grenades) is whether or not you can have cooldown bonuses if your weapons loadout is reduced to the bare minimum. If it's the case, that would just be great: with power evolutions emphasing on cooldown reducing, and combos+biotic focus as bonus power+the new arc pistol (to strip shields) you can have the ultimate biotic warrior, and crowd control what you wish. Seriously I don't want stasis, since there's no synegy with other adept's powers, this power loadout has a great potential

[jackyboy666]

Yeah a Biotic grenade sounds awful. Evolving singulairty to explode or using Warp ammo would be much much better. Hell what about Dominate? Would that be a Biotic ability of some sort?

[Vapaa]

jackyboy666 wrote...

Yeah a Biotic grenade sounds awful. Evolving singulairty to explode or using Warp ammo would be much much better. Hell what about Dominate? Would that be a Biotic ability of some sort?

Singularity can evolve to implode at the end, and to me Warp ammo seems pretty lame for my adept.
As for Dominate....no thanks I'll stick with my cluster grenades.

[MELTOR13]

I find it funny that people will complain about class uniqueness. ME1, which, if you listen to the vocal minority, is apparently far better than ME2, provides no such uniqueness. No class in ME1 was truly unique, and the bonus system makes what little variability there was disappear completely. No one ever complains about that though.

[Lvl20DM]

The Biotic grenade does more than just fling people. Info from the leaks indicates that it is very high damage - particularly to shields/barriers. The combo potential seems quite good - you use the grenade to strip defenses from a wide area, then use singularity/pull field/shockwave to set the enemy up for more biotic mayhem.

We'll have to see the game in action, as it seems like biotics have been altered in a number of ways. The stagger effect seems much more exaggerated, and the force abilities like throw and shockwave seem to actually do more considerable damage on their own.

[jasonsantanna]

Some one mention in another thread I think . . . What if the lore was that you charged the grenade with biotic power . . . Like Gambit [from the X-men]does with playing cards. . . Would that be more acceptable by people. . . . ?

[MELTOR13]

jasonsantanna wrote...

Some one mention in another thread I think . . . What if the lore was that you charged the grenade with biotic power . . . Like Gambit [from the X-men]does with playing cards. . . Would that be more acceptable by people. . . . ?

That was me!!!!  

[Cancer Puppet]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

AFAIK we do know biotic grenade is a physical grenade that we have to throw, that does not feel biotic to me.

Well that's a matter of POV, apparently (I can be wrong) you think that biotic should only be initiate by the character, where I think that to be biotic, all it have to do is biotic stuff.

It's a how vs what debate, we'll see when the demo come out.

But that's just it, if we physically toss a warpexplosion/lift orb/singularity combo grendade, it won't matter to me if it's good or not or has biotic effects after the fact.

Oh FYI I believe Liara had lift orb, not lift grenade, and yes naming matters as well as the mechanism of the delivery

i.e. physical grenade vs orb, and animation.

Call me crazy, call me a unique snowflake, just how I feel. I'm glad you're stoked and happy about it, I'm not!

"You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else."

[Cancer Puppet]

jasonsantanna wrote...

Some one mention in another thread I think . . . What if the lore was that you charged the grenade with biotic power . . . Like Gambit [from the X-men]does with playing cards. . . Would that be more acceptable by people. . . . ?

I've thought about tis, but what sustains this energy after you've thrown the grenade?

[CanonShepard]

If this thing was called Vortex or something like that, would it matter?

[Cloaking_Thane]

jasonsantanna wrote...

Some one mention in another thread I think . . . What if the lore was that you charged the grenade with biotic power . . . Like Gambit [from the X-men]does with playing cards. . . Would that be more acceptable by people. . . . ?

Every class can use Singularity (Storm Projector), every class (sans vanguard) has a grenade power by default.

There are already biotic powers in place that are better suited than a grenade imo on or off cooldown is irrelevent, the default adept shep could definitely use a little more CC or defense or passive damage boost (Stasis or Barrier or warp ammo) to go along with the apparent new ways to set up combos (throw/shock/pull more effective??? tbd).

Based on what we know and some tweets it was a "fairly late in the ball game" switch to biotic grenade. Just doesnt pass the smell test for me.

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 24 janvier 2012 - 05:52 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

CanonShepard wrote...

If this thing was called Vortex or something like that, would it matter?

Do you put the "vortex" in a grenade and throw it?

[CanonShepard]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

CanonShepard wrote...

If this thing was called Vortex or something like that, would it matter?

Do you put the "vortex" in a grenade and throw it?

What if there were no "grenade?" It was just a blue/purple ball of energy?

[Shepard the Leper]

Vapaä wrote...

Well that totally justify the Adept, the only thing that is yet to be see (besides grenades) is whether or not you can have cooldown bonuses if your weapons loadout is reduced to the bare minimum. If it's the case, that would just be great: with power evolutions emphasing on cooldown reducing, and combos+biotic focus as bonus power+the new arc pistol (to strip shields) you can have the ultimate biotic warrior, and crowd control what you wish. Seriously I don't want stasis, since there's no synegy with other adept's powers, this power loadout has a great potential

It does NOT do the Adept any justice because it has NOTHING to do with the class. You're talking about general gameplay mechanics, not about that little extra playing each class should provide (which is what I'm talking about).

ME1's class system was pretty bad, because there's no point to play Vanguard (with Singularity bonus power) if you just completed an Adept playthrough (with a shotgun). They're identical thus not worth (my) while. ME2 did a far better job in giving each class its own unique flavor. Playing a Vanguard or Adept did make a huge difference (as it should be).

It seems that I cannot get the message through using words, so I've searched for a ME2 gameplay video - that's ironically titled "Adept or Vanguard?" - to clarify:

www.youtube.com/watch

The guy that made the video is playing a Vanguard (and rather well), but I'm seeing (ME2) Adept gameplay here: Singularities, enemies flying all over the place, biotic combos, warp explosions, crowd control and smart use of the environment. Stuff like this is only possible with Liara around (when not playing Adept); she wasn't in ME2 (LotSB only), but she will be in ME3.

I don't want the ME3 Adept to become a Vanguard without Charge, Nova, and Inferno Ammo (I fear they're gonna be just that). I do like improved biotic potential for the ME3 Vanguard (which was lacking in ME2), but I'd also like the ME3 Adepts to have something extra. They're the biotic specialists after all, not the amateurs.

I don't care about Adepts being weaker or slower killers than the other classes; I don't care about protection blocking certain biotic abilities. I DO care about having an unique experience with all six classes - and thus far there's little to nothing showing signs that make the Adept class stand out in any way