411 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

CannonLars wrote...

Personally, I never found the import rewards to be that rewarding in ME2.

I thought they actually made the game worse.

[izmirtheastarach]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Wow, this conversation went to weird places.

I think they owe *every* portion of the fanbase some sort of loyalty.

If that's the kind of loyalty you're talking about, eyesofastorm, then i believe the fact that we're still here making the kinds of games that many RPG players like, the fact that we're around to talk to you guys, and the fact that we have evolved character and story-based games to the level we have, all speak to us still being "loyal" to several portions of our fanbase.

This is what is so silly about these arguments. Any changes made to Bioware's games appeal hugely to the entire segment of the fanbase that likes those changes and the games themselves. 

[AlanC9]

eyesofastorm wrote...
I have no desire to go there for multiple reasons not the least of which is that we know such conversation are not allowed anywhere but off-topic.  For reference though, when I say RPG, I mean all the traditional trappings of western RPGs... not pieces and portions of them.  Anything less than the whole is... less than the whole.

And for me less is more, since I always thought a lot of that traditional RPG stuff was either useless for RP or actively hostile to RP. But I guess I'm repeating myself now, and we've pretty well finished with this aspect.

I never understood the desire of some to distill that formula down beyond the fact that doing so will make a liquor that tastes better to some and worse to others.  

Of course you don't understand that desire, since you like the undistilled version. Similarly,  I don't understand why you don't agree with me on these design issues. We shouldn't expect to understand why different people have the tastes they do.

Edit: unless you're asserting that when trying to sum up the utility of a game design choice, Bio should count losses to some customers as more significant than gains to other customers. I haven't heard of loss averfsion being used as a design principle before.

Modifié par AlanC9, 24 janvier 2012 - 09:05 .

[Il Divo]

AlanC9 wrote...

But that just gets us back to the question of what a Bioware game really is. For me, Bio games have gottten more Bioware-y. The interactive movie aspects, the VOd protagonist, drama over logic -- this is what Bio's always been about.

Agreed. That, in large part, is why I had issues with playing Baldur's Gate 1 and Neverwinter Nights after every other Bioware game; the focus and style were completely different from what I'd come to enjoy about Bioware games, to the point where I find them almost unplayable. Interactive narrative really is Bioware's speciality, in my opinion.

Modifié par Il Divo, 24 janvier 2012 - 09:30 .

[Malanek]

The best reward I could ask for is an awesome game with a satisfying conclusion to the story. Absolutely no need to have special items or in any way make the game easier than for people who haven't played me1 or me2. I do admit to have enjoyed the long service bonus elements in me2, but that just equated to less scanning, where in reality there should have been less scanning for everyone anyway.

[MakeMineMako]

I plan on just playing it and beating the Reapers. Victory will be my reward.

[Icinix]

Maybe if the game detects you have a carried over Me1 and ME2 save - BioWare should send you out an N7 themed deep fryer that runs off of USB - so you don't have to leave the chair to get your deep fried goodness fix.

Best. Reward. Ever.

[Wynne]

I don't need gimmicky items that usually turn out to be less than stellar in the actual game. Just give me the plot tie-ins and I'm a happy woman.

Well, all except for a certain minor spoiler which I find more repulsive and degrading than I can possibly say, which I hope by some miracle didn't actually make it into the final game, though I'm not holding my breath. For the rest of it, I'm happy. I have no doubt there will be much else in the game that will help me to pretend those elements don't exist.

There's an undeniable quid pro quo element in play with the whole "staying in touch with your fan base" thing. It's just smart business, and everyone's got to make a living. That doesn't mean that the devs don't do their jobs out of love, though. I don't agree with everything they do, but I'm going to stick around and keep giving them my opinions, because I believe they'll listen and become even better at what they do.

I don't think a loyal fan is blind or a yes-man. I just think they keep their eye on the people who won their loyalty in the first place, and realize that the devs are just human beings like the rest of us. A loyal fan might have their times of nerdrage, but only because they love what they're discussing, and when it comes down to it, they get the human factor. They realize that resources are not unlimited and nothing is ever going to be 100% perfect.

I do have some concerns here and there. But even so, I really do think ME3 will, overall, be the best game I've ever played. For so many reasons. I don't need some kind of handout--I'd rather they focus on making the game what it should be, all the best of ME1 & 2.

[mitthrawuodo]

New idea: Give loyal UK fans more chance to buy CE or at least tell us that we can use US versions

[Stanley Woo]

mitthrawuodo wrote...

New idea: Give loyal UK fans more chance to buy CE or at least tell us that we can use US versions

That usually has to do with various trade regulations and the expense of shipping stuff across an ocean rather than a lack of desire to sell to you, I imagine.

[mybudgee]

USA! USA! USA! uh...what? Recession? Ethnocentrism? Gigantic wal-marts? Katherine Hiegel?
uh...CANADA! CANADA!

[Rudy Lis]

ganthet2000 wrote...

Nope. I wasn't talking about that.  If you want to buy the figs to get the DLC go ahead. I may get the Shepard and Grunt figs cause I like the characters. But as I see it, it is a buy or don't buy thing. They may release it a few months later who knows. I am still willing to bet a dollar that it is just a skin for the Co-op or a weapon or something like that. Hardly worth getting upset over really. 

What? Figs for DLC? Well, I guess I'm not loyal fan - I don't care about that (though wouldn't mind to buy deluxe digital for ME2 on top of my "plain digital"). That's an total overshot for me - one and only "figures" I buying were Warhammer minis. And Master chief's.

Stanley Woo wrote...

That usually has to do with various trade regulations and the expense of shipping stuff across an ocean rather than a lack of desire to sell to you, I imagine.

Care to explain why you signed up ridiculous trade regs that cut entire East Europe regions from certain content? Care to tell had you signed similar trade reg for ME3? It's simple question, why it's hard to answer it? Don't tell me about "secret until release".

[Doc Dee]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Care to explain why you signed up ridiculous trade regs that cut entire East Europe regions from certain content? Care to tell had you signed similar trade reg for ME3? It's simple question, why it's hard to answer it? Don't tell me about "secret until release".

Oh boy. 

BioWare doesn't get to decide on the trade regulations between countries.  Those countries get to decide on the trade regulations.

[Terror_K]

Stanley Woo wrote...

If that's the kind of loyalty you're talking about, eyesofastorm, then i believe the fact that we're still here making the kinds of games that many RPG players like, the fact that we're around to talk to you guys, and the fact that we have evolved character and story-based games to the level we have, all speak to us still being "loyal" to several portions of our fanbase.

The bolded could be considered highly debatable. Some would, for instance, consider Dragon Age 2 to be a massive insult to almost every RPG you've produced prior to it, or at the very least to its immediate and direct predecessor.

The problem with you, BioWare, as far as I can tell as somebody who is at this stage struggling to call himself a fan of you any more, is that you seem far more concerned about branching out and grabbing the mainstream gamer you don't have yet, than you do about actually keeping and appealing to the existing fan. The fact you guys want to seem to have your cake and eat it too, and spread the game too thinly amongst various fanbases. You've basically gone from Mass Effect to Mass Appeal with the series, and while wanting new fans and trying to grow your audience isn't inherently a bad thing, it shouldn't come at the expense of warping the product and alienating a good portion of your original fanbase to do so. This plagued Dragon Age 2, and also afflicts Mass Effect, albeit to lesser degree.

The basic point is, to me it seems that while you're making your games lately for both your "Loyal Fans" and for "Possible Loyal Fans to Be" the latter are far, far, FAR more of a focus it seems than the former. And by and large they're a very different type of fan than the former, so we're getting more features added for them that many of your existing fans don't like, along with the reduction of elements that those same existing fans do like because these potential fans are put off by them.

Modifié par Terror_K, 25 janvier 2012 - 12:30 .

[incinerator950]

The Dragon Age fanbase, or the Baldur's Gate wannabe base?

[someguy1231]

The amount of entitlement in this thread is disgusting and pathetic.

[G3rman]

Why has this thread turned into Bioware bashing? If you don't like them or don't trust them to make a good game then why are you here?

I agree with jreezy, that is one of the best rewards we can receive and that this thread should be closed.

[Doc Dee]

someguy1231 wrote...

The amount of entitlement in this thread is disgusting and pathetic.

This. 

I'm already sick of this place, and I only joined like two weeks ago.  I don't want to be associated with this kind of bratty attitude.

[AlanC9]

Terror_K wrote...
The basic point is, to me it seems that while you're making your games lately for both your "Loyal Fans" and for "Possible Loyal Fans to Be" the latter are far, far, FAR more of a focus it seems than the former. And by and large they're a very different type of fan than the former, so we're getting more features added for them that many of your existing fans don't like, along with the reduction of elements that those same existing fans do like because these potential fans are put off by them.

Of course, "many of " can mean a whole lot of things. What percentage of the existing fans are you estimating there?

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 janvier 2012 - 01:10 .

[someguy1231]

Doc Dee wrote...

someguy1231 wrote...

The amount of entitlement in this thread is disgusting and pathetic.

This. 

I'm already sick of this place, and I only joined like two weeks ago.  I don't want to be associated with this kind of bratty attitude.

Get out while you still can, before BSN makes you ashamed to be an ME fan like it did for me.

[MadLaughter]

You know how patronizing and condescending putting a smiley after your two posts, are? Goddamnit, there is nothing to smile about when talking about how shipping across an ocean is too much of a barrier for some customers.

[Mikey_205]

Majorly surprised it sold out in the UK based on the rip-off price. The cost of the collectors edition was basically an extra $48.00 here compared to an increase of $20.00 for the US version. I got the collectors edition for Mass Effect 2 but the pricing this time was ridiculous so stuck to the regular version.

[Graunt]

Terror_K wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

Dragon Age 2 alone isn't a bad enough reason to turn your back on a developer, especially if they've largely made you happy for a good decade and a half prior to that.

The funny thing too is that if DA2 had been released by anyone other than Bethesda, Blizzard or Bioware it would not have any anywhere near as much backlash.  I wouldn't be suprised at all if we have a bunch of closet cases who actually did enjoy it, but would rather complain because it doesn't live up to their expectation of how a Bioware game should be.

If the developer had been Obsidan, people would be singing high praises of how fantastically written it was (regardless of what's actually there), but that we have another KOTOR2 on our hands.  They would talk about the same issues they've already talked about, but in the end say it's a pretty good game just because what was actually released is something you could expect Obsidian to release more or less.

It's fine if people want to be upset by how obviously rushed it was for $$$, but everything beyond that is kind of pathetic.  So Bioware finally made a game that did not meet or exceed expectations--that must mean that they are incapable of recovery and that everything that they had done right in the past (which is being used as the ammo in the first place) never existed.

Being "rushed" was the least of Dragon Age 2's issues. If it had been a stand-alone title and not a follow-up to the original, many of it's issues would no longer be present, since it fails more at being "Dragon Age" than at anything else. DA2 was largely a rancid, pathetic failure because it was deliberately designed with almost the exact opposite MO of the original and pretty much spat in the face of the concepts and ideals that Origins was going for in the first place, along with many of the fans. The whole thing was pretty much rebooted, dumbed down and turned on its head in a horrible and intentional plan to grow the brand.

I have no idea how old you are, or how many CRPGs you've actually played or if you're just a pure console gamer.  If you get all of your RPGs from the console, then I might be able to understand your rabid adoration for DA:O; otherwise, I can't really fathom it.  As another poster said, when he was at a friend's house watching him play that, he thought he was looking at a NWN mod or expansion.  DA:O brought absolutely NOTHING new to the table and was the same recycled game that had been made every year or every other year since 1998.  The only thing that changed was the slight technology boost that allowed for more polygons and a slightly better camera.  There was also barely anything original at all about the story.

So I hate to be the one to have to shatter your belief system, but DA2 didn't just "dumb down" everything--unless of course if by "dumb down" you mean trying something new for a change with the combat after a decade of recycling.  The great part is that the combat was actually fun, unlike that in DA:O.  And I really don't care what some random RPG elitist might claim to the contrary; but even in an RPG, combat is almost always the largest part of the game.

Modifié par Graunt, 25 janvier 2012 - 01:37 .

[Tomwa]

Your rewards include (But are not limited to):
1. Being required to install Origin (a program that:
a) collect data in the background (Opt-out is evidently an option though I hope companies will realize the real option should be to "opt-in".
Is entirely useless to anyone who uses Steam (Oh wait it wont be coming to steam...so if you should say own the other two games on steam guess you'll not be owning the third on steam!)
as with any program I suggest you seriously limit it's capability access files, the internet, and to what is only necessary (Kaspersky rules make this an easy task and is a great way to enhance security).

2. The "requirement" to use Kinect for voice commands (Apparently computers do not have access to microphones, I mean hey every other PC app in the world can use Speech-to-text and voice commands but ME3 just can't it's impossible. I suppose ME3 will be short one gimmick on the PC (awww says the croud).

3. Whatever the heck EA's cooking up this time but let's let EA's boss John Riccietilo take it away:
"One of the things that Ray Muzyuka and the team up in Edmonton have done is essentially step-by-step adjust the gameplay mechanics and some of the features that you'll see at E3 to put this in a genre equivalent to shooter-meets-RPG," he said, "and essentially address a much larger market opportunity than Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2 began to approach" I imagine a very  Dragon Age 2 like scenario.

Remember to blame EA  and not Bioware because remember if there's a chance to **** something up,  EA is there.

I'll be waiting for my friends to buy the game before I blow my cash on it .